DSK, can we believe this?

[5-element]

[quote user="EmilyA"]I don't get the impression that these women are "just coming out of the woodwork"; I think it is more that the media and the public are taking notice of what happened before.[/quote]

Yes. Emily, of course you are right, point taken. It is an unfortunate turn of phrase I used, they seem to be "coming out of the woodwork" to the general public (i.e. me, and Joe Blogg in the street), but they may well have protested and nobody paid any attention. Or they would have protested if they had thought they would be taken seriously.

[Clair]

There is a possibility that he may have acted in the same way he has acted in the past with other women, but in the US, this behaviour is not brushed under the carpet or dismissed as "seduction" or "flirting".

[woolybanana]

It is naive to stop at national politicians. They are only the tip of the iceberg, or the few who represent the many:  Many, many French men indulge in mistresses, bits on the side, extra-marital relations which are frequently condoned. I suspect that the workplace is an happy hunting ground for these guys who do find willing partners there. After all, how do you think that Formula 1 hotels make their money? Just look at the towels they hand out, hardly for showering, are they?

It is Catholic after all.

[Frenchie]

Not restricted to the French, Wooly.. It's human nature, wherever men ( or women ) live...

[Clair]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Many, many French men indulge in mistresses, bits on the side, extra-marital relations which are frequently condoned.[/quote]

I am not naive and not a prude.

I don't care about affairs, mistresses, lovers... the average French(wo)man has.

DSK is not just a Frenchman.

He is an international figure, a senior politician, a person who holds a position of power.

As far as I am concerned, he should have taken all the necessary steps to ensure there is not a single hint of impropriety attached to his name.

He has been cleared of inappropriate financial dealings in the past.

He had a brush with an accusation of abuse of power a few years ago and he was cleared.

He apologised for a lapse in judgement (a one-night stand with a subordinate).

One way or another, there has been another serious lapse in judgement somewhere along the line and he has not learned from his previous error.

[Simon-the-censored]

[quote user="Frenchie"]

[quote user="Simon-come-lately"]Spot on Clair ! It's like saying that you are 2 different people - one at work, one at home - total rubbish! It's the same bloke! Simon :-)[/quote]

I didn't say what you think is total rubbish , so please, I'd like you to watch your language, we can express different points of view and yet, respect  people. [:)]

 

[/quote]

Steady on Frenchie - I was agreeing with Clair! You have misunderstood - maybe lost something in translation!

I was stating that the concept of being one person in your professional life and a completely different one in your private life -  is rubbish. You are the same person no matter what - i.e. I wouldn't want a head of state who plays around in their private life - wouldn't trust him / her - simple as that.

Simon :-)

 

 

[PaulT]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

It is naive to stop at national politicians. They are only the tip of the iceberg, or the few who represent the many:  Many, many French men indulge in mistresses, bits on the side, extra-marital relations which are frequently condoned. I suspect that the workplace is an happy hunting ground for these guys who do find willing partners there. After all, how do you think that Formula 1 hotels make their money? Just look at the towels they hand out, hardly for showering, are they?

It is Catholic after all.

[/quote]

Wooly, you seem very knowledgeable about Formula1 hotels, their towels and how they make their money. Is there something you want to confess to?...........

My OH works in a hotel. She says that the Woolys [:D] of this World act in different ways. Some are very open about why they want a 'day let' others concoct stories about how they have checked in for a few hours as they are early for a flight. However, the hotel staff can always tell what they are there for.

Paul

[Jazzer]

Meanwhile in the UK Justice Minister ken Clarke says there are different categories of rape, including forcible rape and serious rape. Also if a rapist admits the offence he should get a lighter sentence.

[Chancer]

It occurred to me that if penetration didnt occur then there is less likelyhood of the presence of  DNA evidence to show that a sexual encounter occured. I guess that when penetration has occurred they must look for evidence of physical trauma to see if it was forced, non consential.

My ex was repeatedly forced by her ex partner have sex, sujected to and forced to do things that she abhorred, to my mind she was raped (I knew the guy well) but there was no physical violence involved, just the threat of it and domination.

How are they going to prove this attempted rape?

If it was a set up then I would have thought that the femme fatale would have gone all the way in order to procure the necessary proof.

Just thinking about and writing this stuff makes me mal au coeur

[Christine Animal]

[quote user="Mel"]Christine animal - please read my posts properly - it is not me who is suggesting he is as guilty as hell, hence the (?)...

I am merely using irony to reflect much of the public opinion...

(As you will see in other posts, I too am 100% for 'innocent until proven guilty')
[/quote]

Okay Mel, sorry! 

Public opinion.  It is so easy to say all sorts of things about someone when they are down and no longer in a position to reply.  I suppose the person who really knows him is his wife, Anne Sinclair.  Would she have stayed with him all these years and still be at his side now if he was a sexual monster?  They say the police found out he was at the airport because he called the hotel asking someone to bring him his mobile 'phone which he had forgotten there.  Not exactly the attitude of someone running away.

If he had been caught in the act or there were witnesses, the way he has been treated would be more understandable.  As it is, it still seemes grotesque and out of all dimension.

 

I hope in the future the press here doesn't act as in the anglo-saxon countries and still respects people's private lives.  If we had to put up with every liaison being splashed all over the place it would not only include the personality concerned, but also the other person.  There have always been incidents, such as Giscard's encounter with a milk van in the early hours of the morning while in pleasant company.  Not long ago there were stories about Carla and a singer.  Whether it was true or not, who knows.  Does it make any difference to us to know or not?  Surely life is more peaceful without all that and their privacy is respected.  (Not referring to any sort of crime here, just personalities' private lives).

 

[Clair]

Chancer,

There are scratches on his chest.

She said she scratched him when she fought him off.

I read this morning something about traces of blood in the hotel suite.

A long long time ago, I was.. let's say... "coerced" into having sex with a man I did not know, when on holiday in Paris.

He did not use violence, but I felt there might be violence if I did not give in. I managed to convince him to pull out, saying I was not on the pill.

I complied, simply to be able to get out of the room and out of the house.

I did not want to let the whole episode mark me as a victim so I refused to act as a victim. I did not report it.

The first person I discussed it with, a male friend, said I should have reported it because if it happened to another woman, it'd be my fault.

Thanks a lot, friend! [:)]

[cooperlola]

Sadly, Clair, your story is only too familiar and in fact nearly every woman whom I know well (myself included) can relate at least one similar incident.   [:@]

[Russethouse]

Christine, we are talking about a possible crime, not just an affair. Who knows what his relationship is with his wife, from what  read she has been pretty tolerant and if they have an arrangement, so be it. But if this man has started abusing his position and influencing women to do things they would otherwise not do, or has indeed attacked someone then it should be known.

Even if has been the victim of a set up, there must be a weakness to be exploited, which is not good - he could leave himself open to blackmail etc, at the very least.

[Frenchie]

[quote user="Christine Animal"]

[quote user="Mel"]Christine animal - please read my posts properly - it is not me who is suggesting he is as guilty as hell, hence the (?)...

I am merely using irony to reflect much of the public opinion...

(As you will see in other posts, I too am 100% for 'innocent until proven guilty')
[/quote]

Okay Mel, sorry! 

Public opinion.  It is so easy to say all sorts of things about someone when they are down and no longer in a position to reply.  I suppose the person who really knows him is his wife, Anne Sinclair.  Would she have stayed with him all these years and still be at his side now if he was a sexual monster?  They say the police found out he was at the airport because he called the hotel asking someone to bring him his mobile 'phone which he had forgotten there.  Not exactly the attitude of someone running away.

If he had been caught in the act or there were witnesses, the way he has been treated would be more understandable.  As it is, it still seemes grotesque and out of all dimension.

 

I hope in the future the press here doesn't act as in the anglo-saxon countries and still respects people's private lives.  If we had to put up with every liaison being splashed all over the place it would not only include the personality concerned, but also the other person.  There have always been incidents, such as Giscard's encounter with a milk van in the early hours of the morning while in pleasant company.  Not long ago there were stories about Carla and a singer.  Whether it was true or not, who knows.  Does it make any difference to us to know or not?  Surely life is more peaceful without all that and their privacy is respected.  (Not referring to any sort of crime here, just personalities' private lives).

 

[/quote]  Christine, .. I couldn't agree more !

[woolybanana]

This was on Fessebook:   http://www.maidcatcher.com/

[Clair]

BHL (Bernard-Henry Lévy) wades in to defend DSK:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/18/bernard-henri-levy-defends-dominique-strauss-kahn

http://www.bernard-henri-levy.com/defense-de-dominique-strauss-kahn-18909.html

And a comment made in 2008 by the subordinate DSK made a "lapse of judgement" with:

"a man with a problem that may make him ill-equipped to lead an institution where women work under his command". (source)

She felt coerced "... sustained harassment when she was working at the IMF that left her feeling she had little choice but to agree to sleep with him..."

[Christine Animal]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

Christine, we are talking about a possible crime, not just an affair. Who knows what his relationship is with his wife, from what  read she has been pretty tolerant and if they have an arrangement, so be it. But if this man has started abusing his position and influencing women to do things they would otherwise not do, or has indeed attacked someone then it should be known.

[/quote]

RH I know and I have never referred to the present accusation as an affair.  Of course if he has attacked someone it should be known.  But for the moment, we still have no proof of this.

 

[Christine Animal]

"Lévy goes on to question how a chambermaid could have gone alone, "contrary to the habitual practice of most of New York's grand hotels of sending a 'cleaning brigade' of two people, into the room of one of the most closely watched figures on the planet"."

 

[Clair]

[quote user="Christine Animal"]"Lévy goes on to question how a chambermaid could have gone alone, "contrary to the habitual practice of most of New York's grand hotels of sending a 'cleaning brigade' of two people, into the room of one of the most closely watched figures on the planet"." [/quote]

If it's not his fault, it's got to be hers, right?

[Christine Animal]

Not at all Clair. 

"contrary to the habitual practice of most of New York's grand hotels of sending a 'cleaning brigade' of two people, into the room of one of the most closely watched figures on the planet"."

 

[Chancer]

Isnt he alleged to have grabbed her in the corridor?

[Clair]

In an interview on a US channel a couple of days ago, a (male) colleague said the chambermaid had been told there was nobody in the room (checked out?).

He said he was going to go with her but was called away.

I will try to post a link to that comment.

[Clair]

[quote user="Chancer"]Isnt he alleged to have grabbed her in the corridor?[/quote]

I understood the corridor to be the entrance/hallway inside the hotel suite.

From various interviews, she is described as "having knocked on the door, calling "housekeeping". No answer, she then opened the door and left it open, as per the hotel requirement. He came out of the bathroom, grabbed her and pulled her in, locking the door." (hence the charge of unlawful imprisonment).

[Lori]

It is interesting to me that few, if any, here seem to give any credence to the maid's story.  I get the feeling you all feel DSK is innocent of any wrongs - and I am speaking of the crimes he is accused of - NOT his private sex life.  No, none of us were in the room, so we do not know who is telling the truth, but this board seems to back the accused and for some very interesting reasons.

Rape is an ugly crime.  There are rarely any witnesses.  Does that mean that all accusers are liars, conspirators, participants, asked for it, etc...  Of course not.

This woman has a 15 year old daughter.  What does she have to gain from this?

If this was not a rape or assault, I would have thought a man of DSK's age would have perfected his game a little better by now.

 

[Frederick]

If he is guilty of trying to rape this maid ....and the DNA and other evidence certainly looks like he may be His daughter must be disgusted with him not only for the attack but trying to use her having lunch with him as alibi and dragging her into it ...What sort of man would use a daughter this way ?

That alibi seems to have been cast aside by his legal team who are now saying the maids behaviour in this sexual encounter was they will say consensual .....