DSK, can we believe this?

[Clair]

[quote user="Quillan"]I seem to remember that JFK was a bit of a sexual predator and that didn't stop him. [:(][/quote]

JFK, that was a looong time ago...

That would no longer be accepted. Look at Kerry and Clinton. They did not get away with it.

[Simon-the-censored]

Just been mucking out the horses (may go for a little hack later on - gorgeous day!) and was listening to that world renowned radio station Nostalgie (I love it anyway).....

2 of the (male) presenters were discussing the reliability of DNA testing and quoted the 1 (or was it 2?) instances since it's inception where the original sample was found to have been 'contaminated' on appeal. Therefore - prisoners released.

Would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic...

Grasping at straws ? Sounds like it to me...

Simon :-)

[Hoddy]

On a slightly different note .....

I heard an American defence lawyer interviewed yesterday and he was complaining about the use by their police of what he called the 'perp. walk'. He claimed that is a deliberate ploy used to get convictions. After being questioned maybe over a long period, standing on an identity parade the, usually by then dishevelled, accused is led away publicly in handcuffs. He says that he and others have been argueing against this practice for some time.

He also said that he could see no reason why DSK should not have been granted bail. Apparently he has a daughter living in the USA and could in any case have been electronically tagged.

I'm also unhappy about these women journalists who are now coming out of the woodwork and shouting 'me too'. If he was that bad and if it's true that the culture allows it, why didn't they just refuse to interview him.

I'm not trying to defend the man, I don't know if he is guilty or not, but I do think that we're in grave danger of being unfair.

 

Hoddy

 

[Frenchie]

[quote user="just john "]

[quote user="5-element"] to see him treated like a full-blown criminal, paraded in front of all the TV cameras, sent to the notoriously violent Rikens Island prison, this is all a bit odd, is it all seems part of a big show, trying to make an exemple, or what? [/quote]

No matter how serious the charges, and some scandalous reports, that is all there is at the moment; for me, it is an important part of my mind set to believe in the justice system even in America with it's overtones, an important part of which is that someone is innocent until proven otherwise. The degree of concern to any woman that she is raped, is perhaps nearly as much as to an innocent man who is accused, named and shamed before any kind of trial (Legal, media or forum). Subsequently if proven innocent his honour is unlikely to be restored. 

[/quote]

You are right, that is what is so upsetting...  To me it is a lynchage , before he could say anything for his defense.

Guilty or not , he, like any one else, deserves a fair trial , and instead of that, c'est la curée...........

( some kind English soul will hopefully translate the two French words I ve used. . . )

I wonder if all the people who are soooo keen on kicking him in the teeth  would have done the same if this had happened to sarko...[;-)]

As for people having affairs, I really don't care, it is theior own business, what I want from a political man is a capacity to lead the country in the right direction.

Mr Mitterand even had a daughter with his mistress, no one really cared in France .  

Private matters are private matters.

A crime is a different thing!!!!!

 

[Frenchie]

[quote user="EmilyA"]Indeed. Am also a bit gobsmacked that people seem to think it is OK to be a "seducteur" in the twenty-first century. I thought a relationship was something entered into freely and willingly, not by seduction. Or is there a linguistic nuance that I am not getting here? I am also particularly uncomfortable about the notion of seduction if one of the parties is much older or in a position of power.[/quote]

DSK has always loved women, has always had affairs, and his wife knew it and accepted it. Some couples believe it is impossible to be faithful to one person for their whole life, because sex gets in the way, and yet, they love each other.

So if it was OK for both of them, if he loved chatting up women , and the se women agreed on having sex with him, well, no, I think I am not entitled to say anything about it .

Each of us deals with his morals in his own way.

[mint]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/dominique-strauss-kahn/8519613/Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-Even-the-French-cant-hide-from-the-internet.html

One of my favourite writers on the subject.

The French really ARE different then?[:D]

[EmilyA]

Well exactly Frenchie, if (and for me that is a big if), the women agreed willingly and were not in any way imidated by his power, wealth and importance.

Thank you Clair for your postings, have to say I have felt quite alienated by local and national attitudes to this and it is good to hear a real and virtual French person agreeing with me. Would also say that OH (or DH as they say elsewhere) is entirely in agreement with me over this and we are the same age as DSK so definitely not a generational thing.

[Simon-the-censored]

So - innocent until proven guilty - take that as read.

Question:

What does a rapist look like? How old are they? What colour are they? Where do they live? What nationality are they? What languages do they speak? What jobs do they do? Are they well known? Are they male or female ? Do they have affairs ?

Just wondered......maybe one of you criminal profilers out there could enlighten me?

Simon :-)

[Frenchie]

Could be me, could be you, could be the man next door, could be DSK or Sarko, so , we should let justice do its job before stoning the man .

[Russethouse]

I am also particularly uncomfortable about the notion of seduction if one of the parties is much older or in a position of power

But Frenchie, how would you know, in the case of someone in power, if it was genuine or not, was force used, either physical or mental, was a younger woman taken advantage of etc?

My guess is that while in France people may have been somewhat in awe of this man, the woman concerned in the US didn't know who he was, or his status and acted accordingly, on the other hand it may have been a set up, and he fell for it - either way, not exactly his finest moment.

[Frenchie]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

The French really ARE different then?[:D]

[/quote]

Dunno, my ex partner was English    [:)]

[Simon-the-censored]

ahhhhh so it 'could be'....

[Frenchie]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

I am also particularly uncomfortable about the notion of seduction if one of the parties is much older or in a position of power

But Frenchie, how would you know, in the case of someone in power, if it was genuine or not, was force used, either physical or mental, was a younger woman taken advantage of etc?

My guess is that while in France people may have been somewhat in awe of this man, the woman concerned in the US didn't know who he was, or his status and acted accordingly, on the other hand it may have been a set up, and he fell for it - either way, not exactly his finest moment.

[/quote]

I wrote yesterday that a séducteur was a man who chatted up women, was charming, making compliments, inviting for a drink, a meal, talking nicely, and getting what he wanted. You don't need to be powerful to be a séducteur. I know one or two at work. But it has nothing to do with forcing anyone into anything!!

The alleged accusations against him now are a completely different matter .

Many women are séductrices too.

[mint]

See, Frenchie, your EX partner!

Maybe he was just too different, non?[:D]

bisous[:)]

[Frenchie]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

See, Frenchie, your EX partner!

Maybe he was just too different, non?[:D]

bisous[:)]

[/quote]

Difference is appealing, innit?

He just had to go back to Blighty for work.

And there are few long distance relationships that can stand the test of time ....

Gros bisous my friend..[kiss]

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Frenchie"]Many women are séductrices too.[/quote]

you don't have any phone numbers by any chance ?

[:D][:D][:D]

.

[Frenchie]

I do ! But you might end up handcuffed on la place publique in Poitiers !!  [:D]

[Rabbie]

What happens between two consenting adults in private is their own affair. What is not acceptable is to force oneself  on someone who is unwilling. In DSK's case if the allegations are true then he deserves to be punished with the full force of the law. If however he has been framed then he has suffered a grave injustice. Without the full facts it is impossible to come to any conclusion

[Frenchie]

Agreed 100% , Rabbie .

[Clair]

I disagree, Frenchie.

I cannot simply pick and choose those qualities which are suitable in a political person to get the job done and ignore his other, less salubrious, traits.

The man is a whole and how he conducts himself during the exercise of his functions cannot be dissociated from the job he aspires to be elected for.

I will not even mention his private life and what his wife thinks or does about his affairs does not come into it.

If he was verbally abusive towards her and she accepted it, would you think it OK?

Just because his nearest and dearest do not object does not make it acceptable in my eyes.

I found the fact that Mitterrand was using public funds to support his second family totally objectionable.

And don't get me started on Sarko... [:P]

Edit: the thread has moved on while I typed my post.

What I disagree with are Frenchie's posts on pg 20:

"what I want from a political man is a capacity to lead the country in the right direction.

Mr Mitterand even had a daughter with his mistress, no one really cared in France .

Private matters are private matters."

and

"DSK has always loved women, has always had affairs, and his wife knew it and accepted it.

So if it was OK for both of them, if he loved chatting up women , and

the se women agreed on having sex with him, well, no, I think I am not

entitled to say anything about it ."

[woolybanana]

Oh, go on Clair, what has Sarko done wrong in his personal life? Go on, you really wanna tell us.[6]

[mint]

So, Clair, what exactly is your opinion of M le President, le petit Nicolas then?

Calm down, dear (quoting Mr Cameron), it's only a bit of leg-pulling...[:P]

[Simon-the-censored]

Spot on Clair !

It's like saying that you are 2 different people - one at work, one at home - total rubbish! It's the same bloke!

Simon :-)

[Cendrillon]

I see they have put a suicide watch on DSK

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Frenchie"][quote user="Russethouse"]

I am also particularly uncomfortable about the notion of seduction if one of the parties is much older or in a position of power

But Frenchie, how would you know, in the case of someone in power, if it was genuine or not, was force used, either physical or mental, was a younger woman taken advantage of etc?

My guess is that while in France people may have been somewhat in awe of this man, the woman concerned in the US didn't know who he was, or his status and acted accordingly, on the other hand it may have been a set up, and he fell for it - either way, not exactly his finest moment.

[/quote]

I wrote yesterday that a séducteur was a man who chatted up women, was charming, making compliments, inviting for a drink, a meal, talking nicely, and getting what he wanted. You don't need to be powerful to be a séducteur. I know one or two at work. But it has nothing to do with forcing anyone into anything!!

The alleged accusations against him now are a completely different matter .

Many women are séductrices too.

[/quote]

As Henry Kissinger said 'Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac'.  A man doesn't have to be powerful to be a seducer, but it doesn't hurt either [:)][:)]