Clair Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 The whole sordid business does highlight that regardless of his innocence or culpability in this instance, the man has a serious problem if he has acted in this way in the past.It is likely he thought there was nothing wrong with doing what he had done and got away with before.This also throws a huge question mark over the French attitude of dissociating private and public lives.Had this been more widely discussed rather than accepted by his political colleagues and journalists, would the public be quite as forgiving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote user="woolybanana"]'If' ??[/quote] If what ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote user="britgirl"][quote user="Lori"][quote user="idun"]I'll tell you all one thing if my teeth had been near any sensitive part of anyone who was doing me such harm and I would have bitten as hard as I could. [/quote]I have to admit thinking the same thing.[/quote]Does 'Bobbit' ring any bells?[:-))][/quote]Yes, wasn't her first name Lorraina?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Wait a minute, is there any point in a trial?, should we worry about trial by media? are you all knitting . . . .[blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote user="Clair"]Had this been more widely discussed rather than accepted by his political colleagues and journalists, would the public be quite as forgiving?[/quote]Which public are you referring to Clair?I suspect, in the circles in which he moves, he is far from being alone in his shenanigans. I also suspect it IS widely discussed among his colleagues (those like him and otherwise) and among journalists. It just isn't printed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote user="Lori"][quote user="Clair"]Had this been more widely discussed rather than accepted by his political colleagues and journalists, would the public be quite as forgiving?[/quote]Which public are you referring to Clair?I suspect, in the circles in which he moves, he is far from being alone in his shenanigans. I also suspect it IS widely discussed among his colleagues (those like him and otherwise) and among journalists. It just isn't printed.[/quote]I am thinking of the voters, the French Joe Bloggs, the everyday man or woman, members of the socialist party or not, those who do not live in the political or journalistic bubble.It becomes clearer with almost every hour that his inappropriate behaviour was known, discussed and by the fact that it was not condemned, it was condoned, all within the bubble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote user="Clair"]It becomes clearer with almost every hour that his inappropriate behaviour was known, discussed and by the fact that it was not condemned, it was condoned, all within the bubble...[/quote]Perhaps they all have their own skeletons to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5-element Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Or, as Jack Lang intimated yesterday (I shall have to paraphrase him, since unfortunately I don't remember the exact words he used): "He is not insensitive to feminine charm" - (and then, with a little smile to the camera) "nothing wrong with that, is there?" - and for one brief moment, I thought I saw the mentality behind this, just a light hint of condoning rather than condemning - although, Jack Lang, a very old and good friend of DSK, said that he had never seen the side of DSK that would be construed, outside the French mindset, as sexual harassment. Perhaps a lot of it hinges on the notion of sexual harassment itself, taken far less seriously in France than in the US or Britain. Here in France, sexual harassment is often seen as showing proof of desirability to the woman, something like a hommage, so that she should be flattered rather than angry.[:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 This is more or less what I have just read just now.There is a kind of "nudge-nudge admiration for sexual prowess" (Ben Macintyre's comment in The Times).DSK himself said in an interview "So what? I like women. People have said many things about it over the years. Let them prove it." Coming from the man allegedly photographed outside a well-known swinging club in Paris, this shows a kind of arrogance which may well explain this sad business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanb Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Rape, and attempted rape, unfortunately happen. So do false accusations of rape. Wouldn't it be a good idea to wait and see what the court thinks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote user="Clair"]It becomes clearer with almost every hour that his inappropriate behaviour was known, discussed and by the fact that it was not condemned, it was condoned, all within the bubble...[/quote]Come on - what 'bubble' ? - it's cultural! - and here in the Ariège it's positively neanderthal ! Most of the French TV 'jounalists' seem to be pretty well up to speed on his previous form and seem almost sorry for the guy (and the country!)- and that's just the female ones!Time to wake up and smell the coffee!Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote user="5-element"] Here in France, sexual harassment is often seen as showing proof of desirability to the woman, something like a hommage, so that she should be flattered rather than angry.[:-))][/quote] That sounds right to me from what I have seen and heard. And the idea that any man can think that makes my skin crawl. And swingers clubs, well aren't they somewhere where consenting adults go to partake or watch others in consensual acts. I have nothing against anyone going to such a place and believe that that is their own business. The difference is ofcourse a million miles from harassement, harrassing can go from the banal to actively agressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Mac--Dominique-Strauss-Khans-arrest-sex-attack-charges-New-York [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Moving on from my earlier post in this thread, I am with allanb about letting the courts decide...However, if it is genuine, that 'charge sheet' is quite damning. But we must also remember the wording on it is formulated from the information provided by the hotel maid. And, of course, whether he tells the truth or not, DSK's version of events will be different. I can easily imagine what his interpretation of the charges will be. It is quite easy, one persons word against another's...And even if there is some crossover in the forensic evidence, that can be dealt with as well by a clever lawyer.Just remember, there are three sides to every story...Hers, his and the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 And sometimes one of the parties IS telling the truth. You made me think there and I tried to think out my last twelve hours, a simple thing usually but we have had 'events' here so as I had to be awake and alert during our emergency I thought that getting things in the right order or just 'right' would be easy. It wasn't. I got things in the wrong order and forgot some things, which I remembered just now and will remember other things later. And that was without any trauma to myself, but I am suffering from a lack of sleep. I don't think I would believe anyone to have any story off pat and get every last detail right and it wouldn't be because they were lying, just their memory not re running like a recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 One has to say that IF he has been stitched up then they have 'done him' like a kipper and its a brilliant bit of work. Even if he is totally innocent he is a politically ruined man and will also never get a senior position in banking etc again but then I guess he is rich enough to retire anyway.I have long thought that in cases of rape both the accused and the victim should remain anonymous until a verdict is given then by all means publish the details of the convicted criminal but if the accused is found innocent their identity should remain secret. There have been more than one who's life has been destroyed by false rape accusations over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think the only detail that we can be 100% sure of is that at one O clock a Frenchman will definitely have been eating especialy as it was with family, not lingering in his hotel room.Perhaps he kept his watch on CET? I have known many that refuse to do otherwise but doubtfull for an international jet setter.Funny thing is of all of the French that have talked to me about this, not one of them have referred to him as the leader of the IMF, just the socialist presidential candidate.Sadly more than one quipped that she must have been a lesbian that didnt apreciate him showing his appreciation of her [:(] hopefully that mindset is restricted to just this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote user="Chancer"]hopefully that mindset is restricted to just this area.[/quote]Oh, I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote user="Chancer"]Sadly more than one quipped that she must have been a lesbian that didnt apreciate him showing his appreciation of her [:(] hopefully that mindset is restricted to just this area.[/quote]Nope - mindset not restricted to your area - I had a comment from a neighbour this morning that 'the whole thing is ridiculous - she (the maid) obviously didn't realise how important DSK is - if she had she would have just got on with it!'People always show their true colours when the chips are down - makes me feel physically sick. My have a rethink on where I live....Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Ah the old lesbian card, if a woman doesn't fancy a bloke, 'she' must be a lesbian. Now would a woman, if she hit on a bloke, not actually attacking him incidentally, ever say he was gay, if he rebuffed her? Could that happen, ah dear, I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5-element Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote user="Chancer"] Sadly more than one quipped that she must have been a lesbian that didnt apreciate him showing his appreciation of her [:(] hopefully that mindset is restricted to just this area.[/quote]And those quips only show where much of the French mindset is at.. The notion that a man overwhelmed by his lust is paying tribute to the woman who is the object of his attention, honouring her, and that she should be thankful....[:@]Unfortunately, it is that kind of thinking which has lead DSK to believe that his behaviour only shows how much he loves women... then he must also have thought himself to be above the law, untouchable. How many others like him (but lesser men, insofar as they are no public figures) are surprised to learn that what they believe to be a way of demonstrating their appreciation of women. is inaccurate, and reprehensible?Perhaps one remotely positive outcome to all this is that it might change the way some people regard the notion of rape and forcing someone to have sex. I think deep down, many French are shocked to see that it is taken so seriously in some countries outside France. This might even make some potential rapists think twice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote user="5-element"][quote user="Chancer"] Sadly more than one quipped that she must have been a lesbian that didnt apreciate him showing his appreciation of her [:(] hopefully that mindset is restricted to just this area.[/quote]This might even make some potential rapists think twice! [/quote] 5E not the rapist I know, I hope that they are still en taule. For years now I have said that I would never have wanted to be a woman alone in France, especially when I was younger. Although now I'm older, hearing the stories I hear from the women I know who are now a certain age, there are plenty of vieux gros degueulasse around. Many years ago my french neighbour sort of announced in conversation at the dinner table that french men were the best lovers. As I was the only one at the table who couldn't have 'known' this apparent fact, I could only suppose that it was directed at me. I cannot remember what I said, but along the lines, 'well a french man would say that'. Was he french though, this pied noir. I think I got a 'poutant c'est vrai' like I always did.[:-))] Isn't all this sad especially as there are plenty of good men, and to you good ones, I salute you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Thank you idun, there is a small minority of women who tar all men with the same brush...And to clarify my comments, I am not suggesting DSK is innocent, just pointing out the difficulties when it is one word against another with very little independent evidence. Prior to this incident, I knew no more about the man than I now know about the hotel maid, but listening to those who did have knowledge of him, judging by his perceived past, he is obviously as guilty as hell... (?)Quillan - I certainly agree with your thoughts as they are the same ones I banged my drum for throughout my 30+ years with the police. An innocent man who has been accused of rape will always be guilty in some people's eyes. And an innocent woman who has genuinely been raped will, if the man gets away with it, always be a 'she-asked-for-it tart' in some people's eyes.Rape and most sexual offences are very easy to allege and very difficult to prove or disprove, so keep everyone anonymous until the matters are brought to conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 There seem to be two possibilities in this case1) DSK is innocent and has been framed by either the US or French. It appears there hae been rumours about his conduct in the past so this would make the allegations more likely. Sarkozy seems to have the most to gain from this so if you subscribe to the conspiracy theory then my money is on the French.2)DSK is guilty in which case I have no sympathy at all for him. He deserves all he gets - up to 25 years in gaol according to the BBC.It seems we have to see if they can recover the DNA from the maid's nails which should settle the matter one way or the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 [quote user="Rabbie"]It seems we have to see if they can recover the DNA from the maid's nails which should settle the matter one way or the other [/quote]I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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