cooperlola

Good advice.  The diesel prices here (UK) will scare you witless.  The euro and the pound may not be at parity at the mo' but the diesel prices certainly are.[:-))]

Sorry.  Dual post.

Glad to hear it.[:)] How is the little cat these days?

Straying off topic somewhat, Chancer, I used to live in Penge and love it for the same reason - the mix of people who lived there and rubbed along reasonably well was great fun.

I was reading out some of the statistics in Norman's recent posting about France's poorest towns, to a friend of mine here in GB.  She was astonished at the unemployment and income figures.  No surprise that the two things (the towns with the least money and highest unemployment vs the violence etc) are closely linked, is it? About the France think, Idun.  I do think that many people have a holiday view of a lot of countries but most are the same in my experience - they have their good and bad. Why anybody would expect France to be different or thinks it is, is beyond me also.

If either or both of you goes, can you report back on the facilities for wheelchairs, pretty please?[kiss] I'd love to go but don't know how I'd cope, having done a recce of the town in my car a couple of years back.

[quote user="Gardian"]the point of my post was that your view and that of several others had been made and that it seemed to me that there was little further to say.[/quote] Oh, don't worry - I can always think of something more to say!:-) Sorry if I hijacked your thread though - it was just the one that was nearest the top of the Active board when I was half watching that embarrassing (in commentary and crowd terms) tennis match. apologies for the gobbledegook but I'm using Chrome as it's a friend's 'puter. I

[quote user="woolybanana"]An amazing feat![/quote]I'll say. 

Grr.  Of course I think Andy Murray did a great job.  Just not because he's British.  He beat the world number one - of course it's a great achievement in anybody's books. I think Seb Loeb's the greatest rally driver the world has ever seen. No exceptions.  I think Jim Clark was the best racing driver it was my pleasure to have seen, but not because he was Scots, because he was good. But I detest nationalism and all it stands for and all the negative feelings it can engender - and no, I don't mean it does this for everyone, of course it doesn't - but just a few can be enough.  I don't mind sport, and I have watched some of the Olympics but the flag waving just gets me down.  If disliking devisiveness makes me sad or a moaner then so be it.  Better than to judge people and the worth of their achievement on the basis of where they were born, which is what printing flags on everybody's kit and playing contry-speicif tunes at the end encourages people to do.

Chiefluvvie, I do agree that participating in something you enjoy and being as good at is as you can is a wonderful feeling.  That's a long way from the vicarious enjoyment of the olympics.  I used to love competing with my dobbins and felt good if they behaved well and did their best.  End of.  Never much cared where we were placed, to be honest. On the other hand, being forced to participate in things I was bad at (for example, in my case most ball sports due to an eyesight defect following contracting measles when I was 2) by sadistic sports teachers - as so many of them seemed to be - just made me hate them even more.  Why couldn't we do what we were good at?  Heaven only knows!  When we got to the 6th form we were allowed to go swimming on games afternoons and always had a great time - good exercise and pleasurable.  So why was I forced to play tennis, rounders and loads of other games when it was patently obvious that I couldn't hit or catch a ball?  Bonkers and certainly not one of life's great experiences.  Ritual humiliation never is. When you've got a spare hour (and that's all it takes, it's a very small book), try and find a copy of Not a Games Person by Julie Myerson.  But I digress.  My point was not to downplay sport (I ejoy watching quite a few and liked doing some when I was able - sadly the majority of which I can't do any more without specialist kit and supervision) but what I see as the darker side of pitting nation against nation for whatever reason - sport or anything else.

[:D]

However, Norman, there are some pretty level-headed reactions to the piece also - they are not all convinced by any means.

[quote user="powerdesal"]Is it wrong to be proud of the fact that your fellow countrymen and women can show that they are the best in the World at their chosen sport ? Is it wrong to be proud that a British team are so good at ( say ) sailing, rowing, cycling etc. Just how is that mis-placed Nationalism ? Why is it wrong to be proud of your countries achievements in the field of sports, or science or anything else for that matter ?[/quote]Who am I to suggest that any of those things is wrong?  However, I do think that national pride is vastly overated and yes, can even be dangerous. My country is better than yours because it has more athletes who did well at the olympic games than yours - what a load of ***!  R/H, in general the more talented drivers get the better sponsorship but I agree, money talks.  However, it's commercial money, not the taxpayers' and that is fine by me.  I don't think that motorsport (nor any other sport for that matter, to be honest) should be paid for in that way.  I'd rather my taxes were spent on feeding the poor, helping people get jobs, maintaining the health of the nation, educating the young (including sport at school which encourages people to be fit from a young age and makes the process enjoyable so they stick with it through their whole lives), dealing appropriately with crime etc etc, thanks very much.  However, I know that there are far more people who are pleased to see their money spent in this way and I live in a democracy, as well as having been born in one, so I'm stuck with it, but I don't have to like it. As for staying out of the argument just because I only watch the olympic sports that would interest me if they weren't in the games is a bit nuts, Gardian, sorry.  Surely even those who don't watch at all are entitled to an opinion? If they are not then, as Lucy implies, this forum would be amazingly dull, wouldn't it?

I think you should re-read what I said.  HSD - I am sorry if anybody who had contributed to this discussion thought I was making any kind of personal remark (I wasn't), so I've re-worded the post.  I think that the olympics and sports in general which pit nation against nation (world cup footie, rugger, etc etc) provoke bigotry and encourage people to think of "their" country as somehow superior because they won some sporting event or other or have more medals.  That's why I detest them so and rarely watch.  The reason I contributed to this thread in the first place - which I guess I shouldn't have done as I certainly don't want to depress anybody  - was because I found the crowd's reaction this afternoon so unpleasant and certainly unsportsmanlike.  If it makes other people feel better about themselves then great, but it makes me feel worse about the human race in general that it comes down to this. Still, better than fighting, I guess.

A lot of things have been said of me but "bereft of some basic human instincts and feelings" was never one  of them.  Thanks, I love you too![:)][kiss] I guess that this discussion just reinforces my point - nationalism ain't pretty.