French Plumber Wants to Buy Everything Himself!

[Rich1972]

Is this normal? I said I wanted to buy stuff and get him to fit it but he made a great song and dance about it, insisting that he had to buy it himself and then bill me for it. He suggested going for a shopping expedition with him so I could tell him what I wanted.

I am not happy with this. I want to buy what I want when I see it e.g. shower, toilet, bath, etc. and then get someone in to install it.

Does anyone have a similar experience to relate?

[just john]

I have, but declined to accept the devi and made it clear I wanted to supply all the goods to be fitted and he would supply only plumbing fittings to connect and install. He explained that he would only work with his suppliers, in the end we parted company and I used a great guy based in Angouleme, who will use anything I supply, however these items will not be covered by his guarantee and any future work on these items would be fully chargeable. If his number is of any use to you, pm me.

[Will]

It's perfectly normal for a proper, fully-registered and insured French tradesman to insist on purchasing the materials. That way he can offer you a proper guarantee, not to mention actually save you money because for many things you will pay only 5.5% TVA rather than 19.6%.

If you insist on supplying your own materials than your best bet might be to use a tradesman registered as some form of micro business, who will often, but not necessarily, be British. They like you to buy the materials in order to keep their turnover below the limit. But by using such a business you will lose out on the guarantee and not benefit from the lower TVA.

[AnOther]

How much of guarantee do you imagine needing for a toilet [blink] [:D]

[Dave&Olive]

[quote user="AnOther"]How much of guarantee do you imagine needing for a toilet [blink] [:D]

[/quote]        

 

 

mmmmmm beats the cr ap out of me ??

              Dave

[danny]

Pretty standard approach as the plumber will normally get up to 33% discount which is not passed on to you. You get to see the invoice, however he receives a rebate at the end of the quarter. On the other hand if the property is over 2 years old, you save about 14% on the vat.

[nomoss]

I'm slightly puzzled, not having lived in UK for about 40 years.

Is it normal there to use tradespeople for work and supply the materials oneself?

Do you have to take your car to a garage with a bootful of parts, or cart bricks, cement and sand for builders?

If anyone had come to my business proposing to supply their own materials (no-one ever did), I would have told them to go elsewhere, maybe not too politely.

Why not select the items you want and give the plumber the details? It's unlikely he will charge you more than the retail price, and as has been mentioned, you will possibly save on the TVA.

[LEO]

[quote user="AnOther"]How much of guarantee do you imagine needing for a toilet [blink] [:D]

[/quote]

On the whole ( wink wink) does it really matter!

[Rich1972]

Thanks for the replies. So it's to do with the guarantee on the installation of the works. I'll have to phone him and ask whether there are certain outlets he wants me to select stuff from. I don't like the idea of not having complete and total control over exactly what is put in the bathroom.

[Russethouse]

nomoss, we supplied lots of goods ourselves over the years (my father got a healthy discount as he worked for a builders merchants) we just expected to pay a little more for fitting as we realised the tradesman wasn't making profit on those items, but nor was he tying up his capital...

[LEO]

There is surely a difference between essential materials ( pipe/connectors etc ) which would normally be supplied by the installer , and sanitary ware /shower fittings etc which the client would choose and purchase and have on site prior to the arrival of the installer.

Anything other than the above arrangement , I would walk away from!

[LesFlamands]

[quote user="Rich1972"]Thanks for the replies. So it's to do with the guarantee on the installation of the works. I'll have to phone him and ask whether there are certain outlets he wants me to select stuff from. I don't like the idea of not having complete and total control over exactly what is put in the bathroom.

[/quote]

I ask the customer to specify exactly what they want from an agreed supplier, normally Lapeyre, then I put it in the devis and supply the goods at 5.5% when possible. I won't normally fit cheap stuff from bricos as it can be more trouble than it's worth

[Will]

[quote user="Rich1972"]So it's to do with the guarantee on the installation of the works.

[/quote]

Partly, but also to save on TVA.

The tradesman will go through the catalogues issued by his suppliers with you so that you can choose what you want, just as Les Flamands says.

It's much the same in Britain; when we wanted a new kitchen we didn't go to Ikea, pick up a load of boxes, and then get somebody to fit it all. We discussed the design, found what we wanted in the fitter's Howdens book, and got a much better deal and a better result.

[Hester]

I had my bathroom done in this way and chose my fittings from the large plumbers mechants that the plumber used. However I insisted on getting my own tiles as I thought that the tile supplier was too expensive. A bad decision as the some of the tiles in the shower started to discolour after a couple of months. The tiler who works with the plumber was very sympathetic but did explain that if I had used his supplier he would have re-placed the tiles for me. Regards Hester.

[Doodle]

When we wanted a new bathroom fitted recently our local plumber gave us some catalogues to look through and the names of a few local suppliers he recommended. We duly visited 4 bathroom suppliers, decided which we wanted, spoke to a lady in the showroom who noted our requirements, filled out the order and told us that was all as she would now contact our plumber. He took delivery and a couple of weeks later his team came and installed everything. Simple. We are now looking at doing out the loft and thought we'd nip to Leroy Merlin to check out the items. We saw the exact same toilet at 192 euros which our plumber charged for at 85 euros at that point we didn't look any further but went straight back to our plumber and asked him to get the same items again for us. So beware, it may not work out so cheap in the long run to buy the items yourself and of course everything is guaranteed.

One more point, my neighbour bought a jet shower unit from L.Merlin. They had it fitted by the english chappy who did the house renovations. They had leak after leak ruining the newly decorated hallway several times. In the end they asked us if our plumber would take a look. He said it meant taking the whole unit out and was not happy to do the job it as it would be quite a cost to them, he suggested speaking with L.M. The original installer was called back again and after removing the unit yet again, said there was a problem with the jets and they would need to take the unit back to L.M. Fortunately, we all went off to L.M. leaving the unit in situ. The very helpful chappy in L.M. asked if we had a alum key as he believed the jets at the back of the unit had not been tightened and that maybe the cause of the problem - and he was right. How much easier it would have been if it had all been done by the french plumber in the first place.

Chris

[NickP]

[quote user="nomoss"]

I'm slightly puzzled, not having lived in UK for about 40 years.

Why? That's your choice

Is it normal there to use tradespeople for work and supply the materials oneself?

Not always, but it does happen.

Do you have to take your car to a garage with a bootful of parts, or cart bricks, cement and sand for builders?

No, but if you want something in particular that you  have in your possession to be fitted; you might. Also in the UK all building products are delivered without the ludicrous delivery costs that occur in France.

If anyone had come to my business proposing to supply their own materials (no-one ever did), I would have told them to go elsewhere, maybe not too politely.

If that is your attitude then maybe you wouldn't make it business wise anywhere else than France. But if you have lived in France for 40 years your attitude to customer service matches the French "norm"

Why not select the items you want and give the plumber the details? It's unlikely he will charge you more than the retail price, and as has been mentioned, you will possibly save on the TVA.

Thats a possibility, but once again the plumber/tradesman may not have access to your required items. You must also remember that the inhabitants of the UK are used to a much larger choice of products and suppliers, and are usually prepared to source what they want rather than be told by the local tradesman, "can't get those round here mate".

[/quote]

[tj]

Hi

So go and buy everything , then, call a plumber and ask how much it is to install !!

[Chancer]

Or let the plumber fit everything, sit happy with your 10 year guarantee, he did remember to give you the details after all your prompting didnt he?

And then with a smug feeling of confidence phone him when you have a problem.

And then wait

and wait

and wait

and wait

then try to find his insurers

Then write on a forum asking what can I do about my plumberthat refuses to look at the very expensive toilet he installed:/which I have not been able to use for 3 months.

Alternatively you whip round to tje bricoshed before they close for lunch and buy another cheapy or maybe a slightly better one and throw it in, it will almost certainly have been connected with flexible connectors.

And as for a tiler replacing tiles that he had fitted which would almost certainly also involve replacing the placo destroyed when removing them, oh that one did make me laugh [:D] The best you could hope for is a very long and protracted battle and having to entertain lots of experts.

[andyh4]

[quote user="Will"]It's perfectly normal for a proper, fully-registered and insured French tradesman to insist on purchasing the materials. That way he can offer you a proper guarantee, not to mention actually save you money because for many things you will pay only 5.5% TVA rather than 19.6%.

If you insist on supplying your own materials than your best bet might be to use a tradesman registered as some form of micro business, who will often, but not necessarily, be British. They like you to buy the materials in order to keep their turnover below the limit. But by using such a business you will lose out on the guarantee and not benefit from the lower TVA.

[/quote]

 

Sorry Will but for once I have to totally disagree.

Having been in the OP's situation, I can say that there is one heap of money to be spared by buying it yourself.

Sanitation fittings are very much a matter of choice and style and where one man (plumber) likes a particular item, another (me) thinks it looks hideous.

Consequently I sourced most of the items myself and asked for several devis.  One plumber insisted that I buy the shower cubicles (not at that stage purchased) from him.  Cheapest was 1000€ plus installation - and nothing fancy.  For less than that I have sourced 2 cubicles with all singing and dancing jets, mirrors etc..  I fully understand that this is where a plumber makes his money (and that the VAT arguement is just B@lls) and am happy to pay somewhat over the going rate for fitting.  But he insisted, and lost the business.  Clealry the recession has not hit him yet.

[Simon]

It's 2010 and you are the customer; buy what you want from where you want it at the price you want to pay and find someone with a less mercenary attitude to fit. You still have rights from where you bought the stuff after all so the warranty argument is rubbish.

Regards

Simon

[LesFlamands]

What is the issue here?

If the plumber is not able to supply the model/style you are looking for then find another plumber.

If the plumber wants to add an unreasonable mark up - he should add, say, 5% for delivery and he will get a trade discount from his supplier, then again get another plumber

If you want to fit cheap, incompatable rubbish from a Brico and he doesn't want to install it for a rock bottom price, then you'll have to keep searching until you find someone who will - but I doubt you'll get a guarantee, but then what could possibly go wrong.

If you are supplying everything and delivering to site you can't expect anyone to give you a fixed price without seeing the material.

[tenniswitch]

[quote user="Rich1972"]Thanks for the replies. So it's to do with the guarantee on the installation of the works. I'll have to phone him and ask whether there are certain outlets he wants me to select stuff from. I don't like the idea of not having complete and total control over exactly what is put in the bathroom.
[/quote]

When we renovated our house, the plumber supplied all the materials (and, as it was an old house, we got the savings on the VAT).  As it happened, my husband had been the one who talked with the plumber initially, and when the first devis was submitted, none of the fixtures and fittings were what I wanted. 

So, I went online to the websites of the manufacturers whose products my plumber favors and selected exactly what I wanted.  As an unintended consequence, I knew exactly what his markup was (and felt it quite reasonable).

 

 

[LEO]

[quote user="LesFlamands"]What is the issue here?

If the plumber is not able to supply the model/style you are looking for then find another plumber.

If the plumber wants to add an unreasonable mark up - he should add, say, 5% for delivery and he will get a trade discount from his supplier, then again get another plumber

If you want to fit cheap, incompatable rubbish from a Brico and he doesn't want to install it for a rock bottom price, then you'll have to keep searching until you find someone who will - but I doubt you'll get a guarantee, but then what could possibly go wrong.

If you are supplying everything and delivering to site you can't expect anyone to give you a fixed price without seeing the material.[/quote]

"cheap, incompatable rubbish from a Brico "

"material."

LesFlamands.

You are using words and phrases to suit your own argument/point of view

Nobody suggested cheap  incompatible rubbish or ,supplying all the nuts/screws and pipes etc .

Have a look at my website link at the bottom of my post and ,tell me if you think it is cheap incompatable rubbish.

[LEO]

[quote user="Simon"]It's 2010 and you are the customer; buy what you want from where you want it at the price you want to pay and find someone with a less mercenary attitude to fit. You still have rights from where you bought the stuff after all so the warranty argument is rubbish.

Regards

Simon[/quote]

I agree!

[Russethouse]

 There is a tendency to assume that if someone wants their own stuff fitted its because they got it cheap, of course the opposite may be true and the customer wants something a whole lot more luxurious......or niche....