Clair Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Heating benefits for ex-pat elderly to be cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I see the usual "living in France" and "enjoying warmer winters" myth persists.I wish some of these idiots would od their homework Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 This has nothing to do with winter temperatures in France, rather it's about whether cutting this particular benefit is politically acceptable. They will be fully aware that every time the plight of ex-pats is raised in the UK media, public sympathy has been virtually non-existant, so in the light of the current economic climate, they will see this as an easy hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Can't think they'll be able to carry it through because of European Law though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Why not? The same principle surely applies as to things like health care and other benefits for those living overseas. Anyway, the heating allowance is payable only to those who were UK resident before reaching the age of entitlement, so far from all Britsih over-60s in France are eligible even now.The plain fact is that the small number of overseas residents with postal votes is insignificant to the politicians. I won't be popular for saying so, but in my own opinion people who choose to move to another country shouldn't expect to retain the same benefits as those who stay. I know people will quote the quirk of the taxation system that means that government occupational pensions remain taxable in UK and feel it gives them rights as UK taxpayers - but if that entitles them to retain benefits it seems pretty unfair to those who are not fortunate enough to have a civil service pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 From the article:strict European laws preventing the Government from discriminating against those choosing to live abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 [quote user="Will"]I won't be popular for saying so, but in my own opinion people who choose to move to another country shouldn't expect to retain the same benefits as those who stay.[/quote]I've made this point before that if they get away with one thing the next could be freezing the State Retirement Pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 [quote user="Benjamin"][quote user="Will"]I won't be popular for saying so, but in my own opinion people who choose to move to another country shouldn't expect to retain the same benefits as those who stay.[/quote]I've made this point before that if they get away with one thing the next could be freezing the State Retirement Pension.[/quote]So why mess about, to really save money they should just shoot everybody over 65. [Www] Don't get too excited, there is about as much chance of them stopping the fuel allowance as there is of the coalition ministers not claiming their expenses. But then I only claim the allowance so people don't think that I sleep with the woman who I live with to stay warm in the winter. [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 This was of course brought in by David Laws, the yellow Liberal who was too cowardly to admit his homosexuality (which I for one don't give a damn about) at the same time as enriching his secret boyfriend by claiming £40,000 of expenses he wasn't entitled to.That particularly hypocritical streak of cuts for everybody else while you enrich your own is a real Tory tradition, going back to Maggie's fingers in the till for her worthless children.New faces same old SH*T.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard51 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 The state pension is considered to be a 'benefit' in the UK and so heating allowance is considered to be an 'enhancement' to that 'benefit'. Accordingly, I have no issues with its continued payment to ex-pats (and, no, I'm not an expat). I, personally, disagree with the fact that pensions are frozen (i.e. no inflationary increases) when UK citizens emigrate to commonwealth countries. It's all pure politics - to target the weakest (viz those with no vote and so no voice). I would far rather we paid index linked pensions to former UK citizens living in Canada (who have worked and paid NI in the UK for 15 - 20 years before emigrating) than pay child benefit to East European migrant workers whose children don't even live in the UK.Mrs R51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 'This was of course brought in by David Laws' - reference ?'going back to Maggie's fingers in the till for her worthless children'. - reference ? Funny that you are so keen to accuse Mr Laws who is so wealthy he retired at 28 ( and who has at least done the decent thing in the circumstances) and Mrs Thatcher who was independently wealthy ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Trunk Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 During Mrs Thatcher's premiership she visited Oman, whose government was at that time accepting tenders for a very large civil engineering contract. She lobbied strongly for one particular company -Cementation - (she has admitted this) - a company which was employing her son Mark as a "consultant", although her son's talents in civil engineering had been up to that point unsuspected. Cementation were awarded the contract, and Mark Thatcher received a commission running into millions. Before her visit to Oman her son was a third-rate rally driver; afterwards he was a millionaire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2005/sep/20/uk.freedomofinformationShame he didn't take after his father Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 [quote user="NormanH"]This was of course brought in by David Laws, the yellow Liberal who was too cowardly to admit his homosexuality (which I for one don't give a damn about) at the same time as enriching his secret boyfriend by claiming £40,000 of expenses he wasn't entitled to.That particularly hypocritical streak of cuts for everybody else while you enrich your own is a real Tory tradition, going back to Maggie's fingers in the till for her worthless children.New faces same old SH*T..[/quote]Oh Normie, I do love your silly rants. Bit like page three in the Sun waking up next to one and asking for more! You are such a cheerful chappie, a cross between Andy Capp and Grandma (Giles cartoon character). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 They should sort out this mess before they pick on expats heating allowance ...There is real money to get back into the tax pot here !http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7912548.stm Old news but still applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 At present there are only 1,580 missing - frankly I'm not surprised, it took several years for them to start taking a payment from my daughter even though he was with just one company in the UK We need to refine the system before the 46,000 graduate and disappear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Surely the crux of the matter (love that phrase) is that UK pensioners in whatever country have mostly already paid their dues through their working lives. They should not be penalised simply because they wanted to live out the rest of their lives somewhere other than the UK?I understand that the heating benefit is regard as 'an extra', but if they get away with that, then everthing is up for grabs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velcorin Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Some thoughts from a disinterested bystander, as my generation, and future generations, will not get a State Pension. The Grantham Milk Snatcher removed the link to Average Earnings which over decades will erode the State Pension to effectively zero. However, I pay my "dues" (NI) out of a belief in the system that does help people that can least help themselves. So, I'm happy to pay for something from which I cannot benefit. However, as always I do have a few issues.................1 Those "dues" were used to fund your parents/grandparents pensions. There is no "pot" with your name on it. The terms of the State Pension can, and will be changed. See above, and the GMS.2 I consider Pensions as deferred earnings, whereas the WFA I consider a Welfare Benefit for a particular Age Group. As deferred Earnings, pensions also attract Income Tax and pension funds attract Dividend Tax, Welfare Benefits do not.3 If you could have voted for a party that promised to increase NI, or Income Tax to provide, ringfenced, higher State Pension, would you have done so? Remember the lead times on this would be 15-20 years, so now, is too late! (Not my fault.......too young!)4 All European pension systems work in the same way. Hence the urgency in France of changing their system. See above re lead times.5 Do you really want to go the French route and Means Test? Think of all those foncs, and the power you'd be giving them! Truely scarey.6(and most controversally!) The economic chickens have come home to roost after the incredible wealth generation over the last 30-40 years. Compare yourselves to your parents' generation, 2 cars, foreign holidays, second homes, etc. Now I, and the next generation, will have to pay for that. Personally, I would like the Age Group, on whose watch the problems were stored up, to share just a small part of the burden! Now I'll put my tin 'at on and find a very deep hole[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Yep, Velcorin understood, but I paid for my own pension weekly - as with most railway workers. We were contracted out of the Uk state pension so only qualify for the minimum now, but for my pension I worked overtime and more for 35 years to be abe to bring in what I have. My wife, self-employed did the same for the 20 years she was self-employed, and her pension is a pittance. I was told and brought up to believe the NIS stamp is not really about paying for the NHS - otherwise why would you have to work so many years before you qualify for a pension? (now 30 I believe). Every spare penny I had went to help fund my own pension and I merely stated that I feel for those of an older age group, many who fought in the war to keep the freedom of choice alive, that they should be given all the help they can from a government who owes these generations a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Velcorin wrote:Some thoughts from a disinterested bystander, as my generation, and future generations, will not get a State Pension. The Grantham Milk Snatcher removed the link to Average Earnings which over decades will erode the State Pension to effectively zero. However, I pay my "dues" (NI) out of a belief in the system that does help people that can least help themselves. So, I'm happy to pay for something from which I cannot benefit. However, as always I do have a few issues.................I like your thought process Velcorin and it's very generous of you to support us pensioners willingly, unfortunately not everybody thinks like you. Lots of them forget that it is todays pensioners who financed the next couple of generations schooling and university attendance for those who have enjoyed a vastly superior education and life style than was available to us when we were young, also today's pensioners have started leaving inheritances and houses (paid for) to their heirs or to the state. I feel that what goes round etc., Still nice to know that someone appreciates it. Cheers mate. [B] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 As for means testing, as everybody knows we who live in France all came here for those short mild winters we all enjoy so here's a thought. Why not means test on the basis of average winter temperatures? - perhaps between say November and March. Then maybe a few Cornish people could do without their WFA and those living in mountainous regions of Southern France could have it instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velcorin Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 And I thought I was going to get absolutely torn to shreds[:)] PS I was privately educated, had private healthcare, and I have an abhorrance of inherited wealth, I've seen what it has done to some of my school friends. Money just let's you be miserable in much nicer places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard51 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 [quote user="velcorin"]Money just let's you be miserable in much nicer places.[/quote]Love it - and so true!Mrs R51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 [quote user="velcorin"]And I thought I was going to get absolutely torn to shreds[:)] PS I was privately educated, had private healthcare, and I have an abhorrance of inherited wealth, I've seen what it has done to some of my school friends. Money just let's you be miserable in much nicer places.[/quote]Less miserable WITH money than without it.Being poor is not much fun - believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 [quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="velcorin"] And I thought I was going to get absolutely torn to shreds[:)] PS I was privately educated, had private healthcare, and I have an abhorrance of inherited wealth, I've seen what it has done to some of my school friends. Money just let's you be miserable in much nicer places.[/quote]Being poor is not much fun - believe me.[/quote]Poor is a state of mind. Skint is a temporary situation. [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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