Burqa ban under discussion

[Frenchie]

[quote user="Braco"]

Iceni

 

 

Totally agree with the French decision to ban all religious insignia at school. To keep the same standard for banning the Burqa would require too many other cultural items to also be banned.

 

 

[/quote]

You say the burqa is not a religious thing but a cultural thing, and I disagree.

It is linked to the Coran, which states women must wear a veil ( though some say it can be interpreted a bit differently but basically that s it.)

In muslim countries,women are seen as impure, they can't touch food when they have their periods, they are said to try and tempt men with their looks, hair, etc..

A woman who smokes is a whore, etc.. I ve seen that myself in Muslim countries.

To me, whether it is tradition or religion, the burqa is meant to discriminate women, to reduce them to black shadows, and I don't want women to be considered as such in my country, it has nothing to do with racism !!!!

When I travelled and lived in muslim countries, I  could not enter a mosquée , I respected that. ( though can't see why a man could and I couldn't !)

When it was ramadan, I NEVER ate a sandwich or drank in the street, I would have found that offensive to people whowere starving and thirsty.

France is based on supposed equality between men/women, there's still a lot to do, so, let's not tolerate such things as the burqa.

 

 

[Clair]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]Is banning the Burqa going to help all those women who are allegedly oppressed.

Will the beatings, treatment as a second class citizen etcetc ,cited by many on here,not just continue anyway.[/quote]

Should this proposed ban become official, the chances are that those women currently seen wearing the burqa outside will be confined indoors.

I will very interested to read proposals on implementing the ban (should it become law)...

Will the woman be punished?

Will she be "educated"?

Will she be offered a chance to wear an alternative cover if she wishes to wear one?

[Bob T]

Well said Frenchie.

[Braco]

Hi Frenchie

I am by no mean an expert on religions. I think that you will find that Orthodox Jewish ladies along with others also have restrictions during the time of month.

 

If as you say a burqa is religious attire and not cultural, then how in the sense of equal treatment will we stand on skull caps, turbans, nun’s habits ……… the slope is long and slippery.

 

[powerdesal]

[quote user="Frenchie"][quote user="Braco"]

Iceni

 

 

Totally agree with the French decision to ban all religious insignia at school. To keep the same standard for banning the Burqa would require too many other cultural items to also be banned.

 

 

[/quote]

You say the burqa is not a religious thing but a cultural thing, and I disagree.

It is linked to the Coran, which states women must wear a veil ( though some say it can be interpreted a bit differently but basically that s it.)

In muslim countries,women are seen as impure, they can't touch food when they have their periods, they are said to try and tempt men with their looks, hair, etc..

A woman who smokes is a whore, etc.. I ve seen that myself in Muslim countries.

To me, whether it is tradition or religion, the burqa is meant to discriminate women, to reduce them to black shadows, and I don't want women to be considered as such in my country, it has nothing to do with racism !!!!

When I travelled and lived in muslim countries, I  could not enter a mosquée , I respected that. ( though can't see why a man could and I couldn't !)

When it was ramadan, I NEVER ate a sandwich or drank in the street, I would have found that offensive to people whowere starving and thirsty.

France is based on supposed equality between men/women, there's still a lot to do, so, let's not tolerate such things as the burqa.

 

 

[/quote]

Frenchie, it was I who said the burkha is a cultural thing.

I don't know which 'version' of the Koran you have read but I have read that it requires women to dress modestly, it does / did not specify a veil.

The adoption of the full body burkha is particularly linked to the wahabi sect of Islam, not the more accepted sects. The Wahabi are the most radical sect of Islam and, I believe. originate in parts of Saudi Arabia.

No visitor to a Muslim country would (or should) eat or drink in public during Ramadan, in many Muslim countries it is specifically against the law to do so, even in the so-called enlightened ones. Oddly enought, I dont think it is so in Indonesia, which is one of the largest concentations of Muslims anywhere in the World.

[Dog]

I think burquas can be quite sexy- but that's just me.

 Perhaps the way to disrupt the wearing of them would be that they have to be made of bright or sparkly material.

The Sun Newspaper should have a Burqua of the day girlie and boy to be PC. Muslim men should also have to wear them - it's only fair. All prisoners should be forced to wear them.

It would also be fun if all entrants in sporting events had to wear them - it would liven up the Tour de France, football, swimming etc.

 

[Iceni]

[quote user="Frenchie"]

In muslim countries,women are seen as impure, they can't touch food when they have their periods, they are said to try and tempt men with their looks, hair, etc..

[/quote]

Many Jewish women wear a sheitel (wig) when out and about lest their hair cause an outbreak of lust. I am unsure what is and is not allowed periodically but I suspect some Fundamentalists are not too far away from the Muslim view.

John

[Edward Trunk]

Frenchie, I've never read so much nonsense in one post.

1. Islam requires both sexes to dress modestly. Men as well. Different Islamic societies interpret this in different ways. In this hot weather Frenchie, would you go out shopping bare-breasted? I guess not, because very strong cultural taboos deter you from doing so.

2. Women can't eat during their periods? Eh?

3. The categorisation of women as "impure" during their periods (and for forty days after childbirth) was meant to protect them from the attentions of men during these times.

4. Muslims are not "exempt" from obeying the law in Western countries. There is no law prohibiting the wearing of the burka, and Sarkozy is an idiot in attempting to introduce one. Educating attitudes is a much better way to approach this, though it will not have the same appeal to the strong vein of racism that runs through French society.

[Scooby]

Interesting that most of the posts defending the burqah come from men.....

[Frenchie]

Women can only speak nonsense Scooby............ [Www]

[Weedon]

Yuk...I haven't had a burger for years, all those lips and nostrils.....[+o(] quite why they allow them in schools I don't know! In the good old days there were only wimpy's, what happened to them?

[Clair]

French ban Muslim woman from pool for wearing 'burkini' swimsuit

[Frenchie]

Well , it is not for the " principe de laicité " but for hygiene , that 's what the authorities say.

I must admit I agree..

[Christine Animal]

I haven't read this thread, but the subject is already giving ideas.  Two men disguised under these clothes, robbed a post office.  Thinking it was two women, the employee opened up  to them.

http://actu.orange.fr/insolite/deux-hommes-en-burqa-braquent-une-poste_490369.html

 

[Will]

[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]

To me, Islam is not a religion which has equality between the genders and until it does across the board, no matter which part of Islam a person may belong to, and where men and women do have equality of rights, views and access, this is always going to be a difficult discussion.

[/quote]

The same argument could equally well be applied to Catholicism. Is France likely to ban symbols of that branch of faith (incense, confessionals etc)? What was that about equality?

[velcorin]

Well Sarko seems to have shot himself, and the UMP in the foot. I always thought that this was just a political stunt for the March elections, there was no great national clamour by the public, or the media.......... and if you play with fire, sometimes you'll get burnt.

The latest opinion polls show the UMP on 18.3%, the PS on 29.8%, the Ecologie on 11.6%...........but Le Pen is back, 19.4% for Le Front National.

Thank you Sarko. You raised the issue, and the FN profited bigtime. Idiot.

[Evianers]

And then of course, there is this :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8512215.stm

[NickP]

[quote user="Evianers"]And then of course, there is this :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8512215.stm

[/quote]

Read this report very carefully,  BA banned all jewellery not just crosses.

[Clair]

Update:

Burka is 'an affront to French values' parliament rules

[Frenchie]

Don't you agree Clair ?  I do .

[Marym2]

Most women do, its only the opressed and the one's that are totally afraid of their spouses, waiting for the backlash.

[Clair]

Vigilante act?

France has first 'burka rage' incident

[Swissie]

The French woman was responsible for the affray, surely?

[cooperlola]

I'm sorry, Swissie, but weren't they both French?

As much as we might like to get rid of the symbols of opression, that is all they are - symbols.  Liberation begins inside and works its way out, not the other way around.

[Swissie]

Coops, I stand well and truly corrected- you are absolutely right and I can't believe I made this 'faux-pas'. Totally agree with you- this ban the Burka bandwagon will solve nothing, and cause many more tensions and will be such a provocation - entrenching and dividing people. If ignored, it is very likely to disappear with a couple of generations- ban it by Law and many many more will chose to wear it.