DSK, can we believe this?

[Russethouse]

I'm amazed by this thread in which most of you seem to have already sentenced him.

Personnally, I don't know who's speaking the truth, let's listen to what BOTH OF THEM will now be able to say .

Didn't someone say the opposite earlier in the thread [8-)][8-)]

[Frederick]

The defence took 8 days to challenge the DNA evidence in the OJ Simpson case.... There will be many who will need to take a cushion

into the courthouse when DSK goes on trial... They may be on those hard seats for a very long time .

[pachapapa]

[quote user="breizh"]

For sure detailed infomation of the alledged victim was in Le Figaro and Le Monde.

In the US the accused is shown to the public, the accused is now part of a Federal process. The populous is informed to protect the accused from the State, and at the same time tell the populous the State is now protecting the accused, it is not intended for any other purpose. If any accidents occur the populous know who to blame. It goes back a very long time, to when lynch mobs and summary justice were common.

American juries are well used to this process. It does not affect their judgement. I agree that to European minds it is difficult to understand.

If it is decided to continue the judicial process, then I am sure in due course you will be able to follow the trial on TV.

 

[/quote]

And even more difficult for the french to understand due to being spoon fed the official history of france as per the Civil Code, thanks to the original dwarf, endorsed by the Third Republic......BUT the principle of the Grand Jury where 24 true men were chosen to decide if the state could pursue a criminal trial against a citizen; a simple majority of 13 was required. This important principle was taken to the colonies from the common law of the English Realm and was used frequently to protect colonists from the ire of the UK Parliament; as the jurors were of course fellow colonists. The principle is enshrined in USA law in the form of the 5th Amendment to the American Constitution. We should not forget the introduction of this judicial restraint introduced into English Common Law by Henry II, husband of Alienor of Aquitaine, after he became King of England.

Thankyou FRANCE for adding an essential element to Anglo-Saxon Law and indirectly to the protection of the freedom of the citizen even today in the United States of America.

Amusing as it may be to the chattering classes of the home counties and dordogneshire.

[Frenchie]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

I'm amazed by this thread in which most of you seem to have already sentenced him.

Personnally, I don't know who's speaking the truth, let's listen to what BOTH OF THEM will now be able to say .

Didn't someone say the opposite earlier in the thread [8-)][8-)]

[/quote]

I ' ve not changed my mind,  [blink] what upset me from the very begining was seeing DSK's trial already done in the Anglo saxon media and him being stoned by most in this thread...  

Présomption d'innocence  is important, the woman could accuse him, but DSK,being in prison, couldn't speak for his defense.

Now, he'll be able to, just as her.

 

 

[Frenchie]

[quote user="Christine Animal"]

Thank you Frenchie. 

 

[/quote]

De rien Christine [:)]....... [;-)]

[MrCanary]

Yes, thanks from me as well, Frenchie...

The plot thickens!

[Russethouse]

 Frenchie, I admire your defence of the principal - however whether he is guilty or not of this episode it has become pretty clear that this man has had many sexual adventures, and not all his attentions have been welcomed - is this really the sort of man that France would want as its leader ?

Just how much of a blind eye are the French people willing to turn to this shenanigans ? Or is all OK as long as isn't actually rape, even though women may have felt intimidated by him ?

[EmilyA]

Could somebody explain to me what the "Anglo-Saxon media" are? (Not just used on here it was also on the TV debate last night). Are there many Anglo-Saxons in America? Does it exclude Celts and Vikings? I think we should be told.

[woolybanana]

Anglo-Saxon in this sense means anything which is not French!

[woolybanana]

If DSK had sinned in UK, could he have got a super-injunction to protect his good name, and would this have applied to every French TNT TV channel which have been discussing the case ad nauseum, to the point of nausea? Whatever, the French tradition of public figures being able to hide their dirty little peccadillos under a mattress is now truly full of holes, one hopes, but don't you believe it. The Press is still controlled by a phone call from the Elysée and the Press and politicians are still in bed together (ooops, a finger of speech, sic Angela), which doesn't leave much space for hotel maids.

[cooperlola]

Sadly, I know that many of you can't watch these but it's very clever:

Mr Stewart (again, sorry).

 

I respect your point of view, Frenchie, just as much as I respect the principle that everybody is innocent until proven guilty.  However, I think it's impossible to deny people the right to speculate, especially given how much media coverage there has been, and the fact that we have so much direct access to these incidents nowadays and the amount of information we have long before trials even start.  The only view which will count will be the jury's, unless he makes a plea bargain.  We shall see.  Whatever, as R/H says, there does appear to be more and more information coming out about his general lack of respect for women so would you really want him to have any say in the rape laws if it were you who were the complainant in a similar case?  Because I'm not sure that I would, even though I don't know whether he assaulted this woman or not.

[Lori]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

Sadly, I know that many of you can't watch these but it's very clever:

Mr Stewart (again, sorry).

 [/quote]

Hilarious !

[Catalpa]

[quote user="cooperlola"]Whatever, as R/H says, there does appear to be more and more information coming out about his general lack of respect for women so would you really want him to have any say in the rape laws if it were you who were the complainant in a similar case?  Because I'm not sure that I would, even though I don't know whether he assaulted this woman or not.[/quote]

That is exactly the conversation I was having with someone this afternoon - that his history, if it is to be believed and I'm not seeing (m)any rushing forward to refute the descriptions of incidents and attitudes attributed to him - I would not want someone like him influencing or framing laws that relate to the investigation / prosecution of assaults against women.

ps:

Mr Stewart (again, sorry).

...he's bleddy brilliant! [:D]

[Christine Animal]

We don't all seem to have the same sense of humour.  Frenchie if I were you I'd 'laisse tomber'.     [8-|]

 

[Frenchie]

[quote user="Christine Animal"]

We don't all seem to have the same sense of humour.  Frenchie if I were you I'd 'laisse tomber'.     [8-|]

 

[/quote]

You may well be right Christine. [;-)]..... [kiss]

It's all very upstetting but conversation seems to be useless.

 

Oh, just one thing, in France, whether you like it or not, when we refer to La Presse anglo saxonne we mean mainly the English and American papers.

If you watched more French TV, you'd know that . [geek]

 

[woolybanana]

Frenchie, what exactly are you upset about? Randy Frenchman, protected by his local press, might have been caught out abroad, or something else?

[Frederick]

 Now he is unable to meet his bail conditions as the company who were to rent the appartment to his wife have now pulled out when they  realised  who was going to be using the place . So as yet he has no place to stay .

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/05/no-place-go-dsk-may-stay-jail-another-night/37982/

[EmilyA]

Actually Frenchie, I do watch French TV all the time and it is a mistake which never fails to irritate me. Here in Normandy we are pretty proud of the contribution Norman French has made to the English language!

[Lori]

[quote user="Frenchie"]

It's all very upstetting but conversation seems to be useless.[/quote]

In what way is conversation useless? 

[quote user="Frenchie"]

If you watched more French TV, you'd know that . [geek] [/quote]

Why so angry?

[Clair]

I could find hundreds of YouTube vids which seriously argue that Elvis

faked his death, that Paul McCartney is dead and that we are governed by

lizzards from outer space.

Seriously.

Clutching at conspiracy theories does not change the fact this man has a history of unsavoury encounters of the female kind.

Regardless of his guilt or innocence in the matter at hand, he has been revealed as someone who has little regard for women and who has had little compunction about using his position to obtain sexual gratification.

I, for one, will not regret his departure from the political scene.

PS: I agree with RH, Cooperlola and Catalpa.

[Frenchie]

[quote user="EmilyA"]Actually Frenchie, I do watch French TV all the time and it is a mistake which never fails to irritate me. Here in Normandy we are pretty proud of the contribution Norman French has made to the English language![/quote]

Definition du Littré, very famous French language dictionary:

ANGLO-SAXON, ONNE.¹ (an-glo-sa-kson, kso-n')

Qui appartient au mélange d'Angles et de Saxons, peuples germains qui s'emparèrent de l'île de Bretagne, à la chute de l'empire romain,
    La langue anglo-saxonne, ou, substantivement, l'anglo-saxon, la langue germanique qui fut parlée dans la Bretagne à la suite de cette conquête. L'anglais est de l'anglo-saxon modifié par son mélange avec le vieux français, mélange produit par la conquête des Normands.
    En parlant de la race à laquelle appartiennent les Anglais et les Américains des Etats-Unis, on dit souvent que ce sont des Anglo-Saxons.

Émile Littré, Dictionnaire de la langue française .

 

[woolybanana]

Modern definition: anything the French don't agree with is said to be Anglo-Saxon!

[Clair]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Frenchie, what exactly are you upset about? Randy Frenchman, protected by his local press, might have been caught out abroad, or something else?[/quote]

(I am not speaking for Frenchie here, simply thinking aloud)

For many people, this is just too difficult to accept.

Here's a Frenchman with international stature; who carries the hopes of millions of French people; who seems to embody the image of a French man as the French like to be seen: jovial, bon vivant, attractive to the other sex, with international stature, yet attached to his roots; with a family who loves him despite his lapses; with a wife who is successful in her own right, yet sets her career aside to support his aspirations.

This man cannot possibly fall from his pedestal, he has to have been pushed.

Kubler-Ross model for death and bereavement counselling, personal

change and trauma: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance

[Quillan]

[quote user="Frenchie"]

[quote user="EmilyA"]Actually Frenchie, I do watch French TV all the time and it is a mistake which never fails to irritate me. Here in Normandy we are pretty proud of the contribution Norman French has made to the English language![/quote]

Definition du Littré, very famous French language dictionary:

ANGLO-SAXON, ONNE.¹ (an-glo-sa-kson, kso-n')

Qui appartient au mélange d'Angles et de Saxons, peuples germains qui s'emparèrent de l'île de Bretagne, à la chute de l'empire romain,
    La langue anglo-saxonne, ou, substantivement, l'anglo-saxon, la langue germanique qui fut parlée dans la Bretagne à la suite de cette conquête. L'anglais est de l'anglo-saxon modifié par son mélange avec le vieux français, mélange produit par la conquête des Normands.
    En parlant de la race à laquelle appartiennent les Anglais et les Américains des Etats-Unis, on dit souvent que ce sont des Anglo-Saxons.

Émile Littré, Dictionnaire de la langue française .

[/quote]

Don't much care for your comment in blue. Americans do not speak English, they speak a variance of English because the change vowls and sometimes remove them. This was spotted by a chap called Jacob Grimm which not only works with Germanic Sound Shift but with English as well. According to Dr Johnson, who it is said created the first English dictionary, the best English is spoken in Inverness Scotland.

After independance several 'Americans' went to great lengths to change the English language there in their effort to move themselves even futher away from the English. You also have to bear in mind that America does not fit the model as quoted above because it is a country of immigrants that does not limit it's self countries where the language is germanic (Italy I think for example)

[woolybanana]

Clair, you utterly surprise me, you roll me over on the sofa and wipe me out. I find it difficult to believe that the French have such heroes, that anyone has such heroes.