No hand luggage on UK flights ...............

[Mpprh]

Following a security alert this was introduced today.

 

I guess this will be a problem for many people.

I carry laptop, files etc in hand luggage so that I can work even if my hold luggage is lost. The hand luggage weighs 9.8kg.

Will the weight limits for hold luggage be temporarily increased ?
How long will it last (I have a project next week) ?
Why does Ryanair not mention it on their website ?
Will it be applied to UK inward flights as well as outward flights ?

[url=http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-24,GGLG:en&q=uk%20airport%20security&sa=N&tab=wn]Latest news reports[/url]

 

Peter

[Meg]

Seems like only outward flights from UK at the moment.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/news/373124

[Blanche Neige]

 

Just in case you are planning to fly  today, Air France have cancelled Paris - Heathrow flights.

 

Heathrow terminals are gridlocked and people are being told to stay at home.

All this will no doubt affect the M25 at least in the Heathrow area.

Share prices have already been affected[:(]

[Rosebud]

amazing....all the bad guys need to do to cause utter chaos is have their plot FOILED!!

 

 

[Russethouse]

Rosebud, reports here are talking of a plot to blow up 'up to 10' transatlantic flights simultaneously, mid Atlantic, to minimize evidence. I think we can live with quite a bit of chaos to avoid that !

I'm due to fly to Boston on the 10th October, my daughter, husband and sister have all suggested canceling the trip. I was just about to buy the ticket............now what ?

[Rosebud]

Absolutely Russethouse.  I do feel sorry for anyone travelling today or in the near future, but thank goodnes for MI5 .  It doesn't bear thinking about.............

 

 

[Judith]

I think that this is all overkill - as with the July bomb attacks last year.  Do you mean to tell me that that the security scans on hand luggage in place for many years have not been able to detect bomb-making equipment - so why have we been bothering for years?  All travel (as well as life) is risky, and the UK nanny goverment has just gone into overdrive with paranoia.  I am due to fly out in two weeks, and I would like less panic and more sense to be shown.  They keep saying - carry on as normal - well given the panic the government, police, Home Office and anyone else involved in this is showing when they put out such messgaes as they did on the news this morning, most people are unable to you behave "as normal"!  Whilst I realise that what lots of people carry on planes seems to beyond reason,  they do seem to have taken the restrictions to  extremes of stupidity.  They have lost any sense of proportion in this - which also makes me suspect that they are less than sure about the information they have gathered, hence overkill reaction. I cannot wait until I can leave the UK behind and not have to put up with this lot any more!

[Rob Roy]

And what if they had not reacted and numerous planes were blown up? The security services are in a no-win situation. Personally I would rather be inconvenienced than dead.

I am not sure what you mean about the overkill re the bomb attacks last year - could you explain?

"Why does Ryanair not mention it on their website ?"

Ryanair have fairly comprehensive information on their website now - they have put several updates on during the morning.

 

[Russethouse]

Do you honestly think the authorities have done all this for the benefit of their health ? Scanning obviously isn't enough, otherwise that is what would be happening, as far as I can tell the plot is *thought* to involve people taking on unrelated items, possibly some disguised as drink, that would then be assembled in flight.

I daresay scanners recognize liquid, but I guess, do not identify which liquid it is ?

And if this took place in France (or anywhere else in the world)- do you really think it would be any different?

Rant over !

On a practical note, you will not be allowed to take on board the electronic keys you may have for your car.........we have just got rid of a car that ONLY had electronic keys, so that may be a problem for some.

 

 

[Cat]

Judith

Security scans can detect guns, knives, and mechanisms that could be used to detonate explosives (hence the occaisional request at turn on walkmans etc if bags are searched to prove that they do what they are supposed to).

It's been reported that no liquids are being allowed onto flight, if the explosives are indeed in liquid form the security scans would not be able to differentiate between harmless liquids and dangerous ones.

As you point out, all travel is risky, all they are doing here is attempting to reduce the risk.

Would you rather that, having recieved information of a major threat, the authorities did little or nothing to act on this?  If just one bomb were to find its way onto a plane, resulting in the loss of 300 or so lives, and it was later revealed that the authorities had been aware of a plot, but not acted on that information, would this be justifiable?

 

[andyh4]

Unless these were hand operated devises, can someone explain how a bomb in the hold is safer than a bomb in the luggage racks?

 

[Cassis]

I think Judith does have a point - what is the point of all the security screens, walk-through detectors and x-rays on hand luggage that are standard if they don't prevent explosives etc. getting onto planes?

One bit of overkill following last year's attacks sadly concerned a certain Brazilian.

Let's hope that the intelligence on which this alert is based is reliable.  The authorities can't afford to over-react otherwise it becomes like the story of the boy who cried 'wolf', justified or not.  I gather the police have made a load of arrests in connection with the alert so let's wait and see the outcome before jumping to conclusions one way or the other.

[Russethouse]

As far as I can tell the plot uncovered did point to a risk of a hand operated bomb.

Cassis, Surely as preventative measures are put in place terrorist groups have to think of a way to avoid detection, surely the nature of terrorism means that the security services are nearly always a step behind, its a lucky break if they get a step ahead !

 

 

[Rosebud]

[quote user="andyh4"]

Unless these were hand operated devises, can someone explain how a bomb in the hold is safer than a bomb in the luggage racks?

 

[/quote]

 

From what I understand, the explosive material is in liquid form and not detectable by X-Ray, and the bombs would have been assembled and detonated with a mobile phone or other innocuous devise by a suicide bomber once the aircraft was in flight.....hence the ban on all hand luggage now.

Still, the chaos which has ensued, and the already detremental effect of the stock markets, is, in a way, a small victory for the terrorists, and another 'no win' situation for the authorities.......

 

[Me0wp00]

My DH flew in to Limoges from stansted on Friday and did web online check in, he got through all of stansted security without showing his passport, he did have to remove shoes and belts (as normal with him, metal toe caps) but still got through passport control without showing it, finally at the boarding gate he did show his passport but this is one case ??? How many people a day get through the loop and this is without even trying, I'm sure a terrorist with the skills and knowledge that they appear to have can easily get through these lapse security measures.

However, Flying back from Poitiers on Tuesday, (also web check in) he was over an hour at passport control/security while they checked people thoroughly and made DH take shoes and belt off and went through his laptop bag. He also showed his passport at passport control and then boarding gate.

I'm glad i'm not travelling with my small son at the moment, the thought of an 11 hour flight without books, toys, dummies, doudou's and numerous other distractive things would fill me with horror, although security measures as these are in my opinion completely necessary in these times

[Blanche Neige]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/10082006/140/uk-airports-s-happening.html

this might be useful for anyone travelling today to or from the U.K

[Cassis]

They're talking at this moment on R4 about terrorists taking liquids on board in bottles, possibly to mix on board to make an explosive.  If a complete ban on hand luggage is the correct response, i.e. the only way to prevent this planned attack, then presumably these measures have to be here to stay - the authorities can't be sure of detecting every planned attack in advance.

[opas]

There has just been an update on skynews that sea ports are also to be affected.

 

 

[Judith]

Well that did stir the stumps.  I have no objection to increased security, nor do I mind some overkill - initially - but several posters have already understood that threat though there obviously is - the terrorists win every time, if we go overboard about security.  There are measures between what was already allowed and what has been put in place which might well have suited the situation just as well without creating total choas, which (from the ongoing news reports) is what is happening.  I looked at the Ryanair site asap, and yes, I believe they have given out as much info as they have - but [importantly] not what to do if you have already checked in on-line (for example).  I agree also with the poster regarding lack of passport check with on-line checkin - when I went last in May with online check in - I too never had to show my passport to anyone until I got to the boarding gate - so I agree that security measure needs reviewing whatever the current crisis.  And, of course, I would rather not have a plane blow up because measures were not taken, and I know the police can't win whatever they do (though previous actions, not just a wrong shooting last year, have not helped their case), and I know they don't want any more info to be released than they must, but you cannot continue as normal, with the draconian precautions they have put in place. Time will tell whether they served the purpose - this doubting Thomas has seen it all too many times to be assured that it will!

[Rob Roy]

 "I have no objection to increased security, nor do I mind some overkill - initially - but several posters have already understood that threat though there obviously is - the terrorists win every time, if we go overboard about security"

But is it not disruption that the fanatics want, it is death, and according to latest reports that is what has been foiled today - "mass death and destruction on an unpresidented scale" which are strong words for the Home Secretary to use.

Regarding the passport checks - I don't see how that would make any difference at all to what a person might carry on to a plane in their hand luggage.

It has also been said on the new reports that although  the security checks and scans are normally carried out on hand luggage it still relies on human surveillance and operation (of the scans) which can never be 100% due to its very nature, and in this situation that is not considered adequate, hence the clampdown.

[Cassis]

Unfortunately, it looks like an insoluble problem.  If the current measures really are the only way the security forces can deal with the threat, then air travellers either have to accept this sort of restriction ad infinitum (as there is no telling that the same sort of attempt could be made in the future and go undetected by advance intelligence) or take the risk of being blown out of the sky. 

Logically, the same risks are faced wherever there are large numbers of people gathered together, so do you extend the same measures everywhere that it is possible to make such checks - trains, underground, ferries, sports events?

[Iceni]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

I'm due to fly to Boston on the 10th October, my daughter, husband and sister have all suggested canceling the trip. I was just about to buy the ticket............now what ?

[/quote]

Gay, this is easy for me to say as I am not the one who has to make a decision BUT if you don't go the terrs have won. But if you decide not to go do ypou postpone or cancel forever ?

Back in the bad old days when PIRA and IRA were active I commuted daily in/out of London by train and sometimes womndered whether I should continue - but did. Even after the Bishopsgate bomb scared me a lot - I was working near Middlesex St when it went off - I carried on travelling. But maybe I'm not too bright some/all of the time.

John

not

 

[Judith]

Somewhere in all this a sense of proportion has to be re-introduced.  Of course, they want to kill.  Of course, we don't want even one plane to be affected this way - BUT - does the governent intend to put such draconian regulations into place that no-one will fly and the commercial world becomes paralysed?  I note what John said about the IRA threat in the 70s - and know people who felt the same, but were determined not to let the b****** win by giving in.  It is obvious that this state of high alert cannot go on for ever - but the other point not made clear - will the restrictions be lifted asap (as they say they will) or is this government (and John Reid who is only covering his back after all in his comments) so frightened about the consequences that they will keep them on much longer than required.  O -  for a Churchill or a Thatcher to stand up for reason!

[Mozman]

My son is due to fly out to meet us in Normandy  from East Midlands on Sunday. He usually takes some hand-luggage (we take the bulk of his luggage over in the ferry) and so he usually uses online checkin to speed things along.

On the BMI web-site it states online checkin is suspended for the time being so people need to bear in mind that this option may not be available.

It seems straight forward now that we know what is expected of us to avoid hand-lugage and pack items instead. If everyone does that then the delays will be minimised. 

I simply can't fathom what Judith is getting at. Should this all be hushed up so that people aren't affected?  Maybe similar advice should have been employed during the blitz....afterall those pesky stays in the shelter must have put people out....and no doubt if they emerged to see their house still in one peice they thought the authorities had been engaged in Overkill. ?!? A bit of disruption is a price well worth paying. For heaven's sake, what is important here....people's LIVES or some inconvenience. The inconvenience will be forgotten in fairly short order...but who will ever forget Sept 11th? That is what the terrorists are really looking to achieve. Long lasting notoriety not short term disruption.

Talk of share prices at this time shows a lack of real sense of values IMO. (Well clearly with the exception of Share values anyway.) Shares always react like this...and will bounce back quickly enough.

Hubby was an RAF Officer (He is Mozman, I'm Mrs Mozman.) and involved in security quite a lot. The point  with bombs is that they are assembled from things which, on there own, may be or appear quite harmless. But put together.... Its relatively easy to detect an assembled explosive device...but not the bits in question. A bomb in the hold has to be ready primed and detonation is therefore more difficult.

We have to trust the security forces...I don't imagine for one moment they would have imposed these measures if they weren't needed. And I do think that those who moan about it would be the first to point the finger if a disaster took place.

 

[Gardian]

[quote user="Judith"]I think that this is all overkill - as with the July bomb attacks last year.  Do you mean to tell me that that the security scans on hand luggage in place for many years have not been able to detect bomb-making equipment - so why have we been bothering for years?  All travel (as well as life) is risky, and the UK nanny goverment has just gone into overdrive with paranoia.  I am due to fly out in two weeks, and I would like less panic and more sense to be shown.  They keep saying - carry on as normal - well given the panic the government, police, Home Office and anyone else involved in this is showing when they put out such messgaes as they did on the news this morning, most people are unable to you behave "as normal"!  Whilst I realise that what lots of people carry on planes seems to beyond reason,  they do seem to have taken the restrictions to  extremes of stupidity.  They have lost any sense of proportion in this - which also makes me suspect that they are less than sure about the information they have gathered, hence overkill reaction. I cannot wait until I can leave the UK behind and not have to put up with this lot any more!
[/quote]

I was going to ignore the above comments, but I can't stop myself.

I have no particular brief for the Government, nor the 'nanny state' approach, but to suggest that what has happened this morning is "Going in to overdrive with paranoia" and (the loss of) "Any sense of proportion", is frankly bizarre. 

Judith - where have you been over the last 4 or 5 years?  Can any of us begin to understand the magnanimity of the decisions that Reid et al had to take last night? 

It's early days and some other recent events suggest the need for caution in any speculation or assumptions that we may make, whichever way our instinctive thoughts lead us.  However,  "Less panic and more sense" ?????

Give over.