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Mozman

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  1. Quite right that one can sell the house without an agent and we are trying to do this. However, the main point is that people are paid for work, why should a French agent get 6 times what an English agent gets?

    In England agents do not drive potential buyers about, they just make appointments with vendors for the viewers. In France there is this need for agents to keep the whereabouts of properties secret so that potential buyers do not approach sellers direct and no fee is payable. Why not simply have a commission payable to the agent no matter who sells, but at a realistic level as in the UK? The poor marketing of property locations by agents does not help the sellers. Also buyers will often not proceed with enquires with agents as they will probably hope to buy a house without having to pay the agents fees.

    Moving house in France is an expensive business. If we choose to sell we will have to pay 6% agents fees for the new house and 7.5% Notaires. In the Uk this would be 1% for each on the value in question. These exhorbitant fees are stifling the market in France and will increasingly make it uneconomical to move.

    I do feel that if agents fees were more in line with the work that they do and in line with reality more properties might be sold, and the agents would gain more individual fees.
  2. I beg to differ. It is the subtle difference of who is legally obliged to pay the agent. In England the agent is appointed by the seller and paid by the seller. In France the seller appoints the agent but the agent is paid by the buyer. I agree that it is all sorted in the round with the Notaire, but who pays the piper calls the tune. Legally the buyer is paying the agent so the agent is more likely to dance to his tune!!!!!
  3. I am perfectly ready for France.

    The main problem with the Greek issue was allowing a country to enter the Eurozone without proper fiscal disciplines in place. Then, primarily French and German banks chose to lend huge amounts to fund the purchase of their goods. The Greeks took loans they could not afford, which is largely the rsponsibility of the banks that lend. In the case of government that came down to the ECB and other institutions.

    The desire for a Federal Europe seems to have overiden economic sense. The Greeks had a history of defaulting debts. They defaulted 4 times in the 19th Century alone. Why did Europe lend to them and let them in? These terrrible decisons are now having to be paid for by French and English taxpayers amoungst others.

    These issues have the same implications in England as well as France. Many in the UK are very angry.

    I think it is very simplistic to say that tax avoidance is componding the problem. The Greeks are the same now as before any loans were made. Unlike the Greeks I am not seeking to avoid tax illegally, I am merely exploring the legal means to avoid it being charged - A subtle difference!!!!
  4. We signed a mandat sans exclusivite. We understand that this allows us to sell the house ourselves to anyone not introduced by the agent. The agent would get no fee in this case. If we sold to someone the agent introduced we would accept that the agent would want a fee within any prescribed timescales.

    Our interest centres around a house that we might want to buy that we saw 12 months ago with an agent. If the timescale after that first visit has elapsed it would be quite reasonable to deal with the seller direct. I see no point in paying agents fees for the sake of it.
  5. Thanks, I would agree that it would be unwise to trust a Notaire to direct me and thus not pay CGT. It is my view that Notaires will not provide advice to assist with avoiding CGT, they are principaly employed to collect tax and they will not leave themselves open to scrutiny from the taxman. I would agree that if the taxman accepts that I am a permanent resident before any sale the Notaire really has to follow suit.

    I think that thius has to be the logical route to follow.
  6. The point is that we want to live permanently in a new home in France. However, if we sell our house in Normandy whilst our permanent home is in the UK we would be penalised with CGT that would be well above the expectation when we purchased. Therefore it seems that by designating the house in Normandy as the primary home we will not be required to pay CGT to France or the UK authorities.

    In the UK many MP's bought second homes in London with expenses, then switched permanent residence and sold to avoid CGT. They did this purely to make money, and not because of a loyalty to a particular home. I bet French politicians do the same!!!!!!

    We can keep our house in the UK and only have to pay CGT on the UK property if we sell after 3 years. Also any rent on a property in the UK is only subject to UK tax. The profit would not be great anyway and any potential tax liability in France would be very low.

    The point I made about it not being logical to pay CGT and income tax is logical. If the French taxman is charging income tax and cotisations he is accepting that I am resident, therefore it should not be logical for the French taxman to try and charge CGT. He can not have his cake and eat it!!!!!

    We always intended to live in France and would prefer to relocate in the future home that we would like to buy. However the penalty for doing this is going to become unreasonable, hence why we are now considering establishing permanent residence prior to a sale. Governments do not bat an eyelid at arbitrarily changing tax rules, it is upto individuals to explore practical and legal means to avoid payment. Lets face it, much of the tax raised is being used to pay government debt and to bail out the Greeks!!!!! Not social improvement.
  7. If an immobilier has not obtained a signed viewing form can they charge the buyer for their fees?

    Also, I have been told that there is a time limit after any initial introduction that then absolves a buyer from fees and the buyer can approach the seller direct. In the Uk this is 6 months. I have been told it could be about 18 months in France. Does anyone know the rules?

    Regarding French agents in general. The fees are scandalous. In the UK we only pay 1%. Generally I find property is marketed better in the UK. I feel that French agents do not advertise where properties are, or make marketing leaflets freely available. This is to protect the sale for them and to get the fee. The level of fee they charge and the property taxes are clearly a cause of stagnation in the French property market.

    Sorry if any agents are reading this and becomming indignant, but this cartel has to change. In my view the UK system is better. The seller appoints and pays an agent. This ensures the agent works for the seller and not the buyer. All too often at the moment agents are too happy to suggest sellers will drop prices!!!!
  8. We have second house in France which we want to sell and to then buy another house in France. If we move to the house, rent out the house in England and register for tax in France would this be enough for the house to be the principal residence. I understand that there is not time limit for residence rules when applying CGT? Some people have said I would need two tax returns, other say you need two years. Surley if I am paying income tax in France and it is the only house i can live in, then it must be the principle residence. I do not see how the French could collect income tax and CGT at the same time!!!!!!

    Any thoughts are mosrt welcome.
  9. We are considering the purchase of a 15th Century property in Issigeac. The property will require renovation. Does anyone know of a builer/architect/project manager that might be able to help with the project?

    Many Thanks
  10. We have had a second house in Calvados for 9 years. I have visited anumber of calvdos producers over the years. The authentic calvados area is between Lisieux and honfler, the Pays D'Auge. I would really recommend Manior De Querville in Pretreville. This is near Chateau De Livet, which is also really worth a visit. The manoir is run by a family with madame now over 80 and still going strong.

    The manoir only kakes one Calvados, with the last one I purchased at 22 years old. I believe they only make 1000 bottles per year. The Calvados has a a very strong and mature character. The manior is a fabulous medieval building beautifully set in the countryside. There is also a possibility of a look artond the house, certainly the grounds etc.

    Hope this helps. Pete
  11. Many thanks. I will follow the threads through. It seems that the Maison Des Artistes could be worthwhile. I had heard that artists in France can get favourable treatment for tax etc. Something about valuing culture - Something the UK could learn from!!!!
  12. Our experience of French immobiliers is that they are crooks. We have a house in Normandy and took sales advice recently. The quotes varied between 200,000 and 120,000. The floor area of house could not be measured properly with elaborate ideas about grenier conversions. The rate per square metre varied hugely. Apparently the 'right price' was one that achieved a sale in two days. We firmly believed that the agents thought that a Brit selling had to sell. We would not use an agent to sell our house if we needed to. Thwey charge big fees for tryinbg to sell the house cheaply. They do not represent the seller. We know when acting as a buyer, how they act. We often found agents only too happy to explain that there client would reduce the price. Let's face it the agents are desperate to get fees in and they do not really care what it takes to get them. Along with politicians and bankers rthey represent the scunm of humanity. Harsh but true.
  13. Jan and I are hoping to move to Normandy soon. Jan is an artist and also is skillful in crafts. We would want to sell her work. Are there any recommendations for fairs, fetes, exhibitions etc where people spend money?

    Any help gratefully appreciated. Regards, Pete
  14. My wife and are hoping to move to Normandy soon. Jan is an artist and also involved in crafts. Can anyone recommend any fetes, exhibitions etc that are worthwhile for selling.

    Any help appreciated.
  15. I am hoping to be offered a job in Normandy which involves using my English business skills mainly. However, I will need reasonable French. My current French is reasonable basic and I am improving this with the Michel Thomas course. I would want to be able to do 2-3 weeks of intensive learning, perhaps two hours a day one to one. Basically I will need to achieve decent French for the job. I feel that with the basics that I have I should be able to achieve this.

    If successful I could start a job in October or November.

    Kind Regards, Pete
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