BREAKING NEWS ON EXPAT HEALTH COVER

[ams]

I contacted the help line as indicated in your response from the British embassy, they seem to be totally confused.

 

what i could gather is that they have resolved the situation regarding new people coming to france, but as for now it would seem that the matter regarding people paying into the CMU is quite fluid. I asked about the situation when one has become resident after 5 years, the response was, we can not say anything at present.

 

I got the distinct feeling that a lot of pressure is being exerted at the top. i feel that constant pressure from our respective governments and MEP may pay dividends.

 

ams

[BJSLIV]

In the French Social Security document released today where does it say anything about five years of residence?

as in

.....will be required to have their own personal medical insurance until they reach UK retirement age (and therefore qualify for entitlement to the E121 form), or until they qualify as a French resident (which is after 5 years of regular, uninterrupted residence)

[cooperlola]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]

In the French Social Security document released today where does it say anything about five years of residence?

as in

.....will be required to have their own personal medical insurance until they reach UK retirement age (and therefore qualify for entitlement to the E121 form), or until they qualify as a French resident (which is after 5 years of regular, uninterrupted residence)

[/quote]But BJSLIV, that is in the  Embassy's letter, and not in the French statement to which it refers.  This was the same case as last time, when they told us that CMU contributors would be allowed to remain.  It was inaccurate then....

[gpnoel]

Having just read over the amended announcement from the "Portail de la securite social" with my daughter, the sole difference between this and the previously published announcement from that source is the insertion, in paragraph 3), of the words ", a compter du 1er october 2007," - basically stating the effective date for the changes.

Are the British Embassy staff (again) really so completely unprofessional that, on announcing a supposed change to the situation, they do not even bother to read the amended announcement; we really all do deserve better!

gpnoel

[cooperlola]

The mis-information and mis-interpreted information from this source has been poor to say the least, especially given that the writer is pretty self-evidently French speaking, judging by her name, so she presumably understands the link to which she refers us.  Please pass your comments to anybody you can think of who may have any influence.

I do accept the laws of this land, and will do so should it come to that; we've moved here and we are subject to whatever any government here might throw at us, provided it is legal.  However, the way in which this is being communicated - especially via UK channels, is dreadful

[Gardian]

Well, better news, if not perfect news.  As stated 1001 posts back, this 'Cecilia' needs a crash-course in Communications!  I suspect that her managers have put their 'tin hats' on and are leaving her to take the flak.  Shame on them for not stepping up and taking responsibility (for clear and lucid communication over a desperate subject). 

[allier123]

I have been led to believe that there are two strands within French state health care which are relevant now to the debate.

1. CMU: universal care for those resident in France, and providing 100% reimbursement.

2. Regime obligatoire: ( may or may not be under auspices of CMU!) providing 65% reimbursement and requiring a mutuelle.

The regulations issued by the Social Security Department recently refer only to the CMU.

The term "actif" is defined not merely in terms of employment, but receipt of income. Thus the provision of all incomes to those not working in France and declared for the purposes of cotisation for state Health Insurance, is valid. 

The term "inactif" is defined therefore as those not in receipt of declared income.

To decide if the new regulations affect you, ask the following:

 

Am I receiving healthcare via CMU FREE, have no declared income, therefore inactif.   If so private healthcare is for you in the future.

Am I under the 'regime obligatoire', have an income (therefore actif), and pay cotisations.   Therefore no change.

 

 

 

[cooperlola]

Allier, this is one of the points which I and others, have been asking for clarification on (see the lobbying thread).  What does "inactif" mean exactly?  However, if you read Will's recent thread about Sarkozy's attitude to the early retired (whether earning pensions or not) you will know - if you did not before! - that it is not good.

The question still remains as to how local CPAM's will interpret the rules, and until we know what they are going to be told in the letter which they will be sent by their own social security department at the end of the month, we can't be sure about this.  For example, we declare our RFR's from our tax returns.  Will each CPAM be obliged to study the entire return to check how this has been arrived at (ie, which box our "income" is in - in the case of the early retired on company pensions, for instance, it will appear in the pension box)?

We need to know the answers to all this and the only way to find out is to keep asking the questions in the right quarters.

[Pierre ZFP]

This issue has made the BBC website

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7004705.stm

 

 

[chessfou]

[quote]This issue has made the BBC website[/quote]

And also BBC News (24) (maybe BBC1 - usually the same at this time) 5-10 mins ago.

A rather disjointed piece - video of the Mochans, "retirement to the sun" may have become more expensive ("at least £1k for private health insurance"), tomorrow - Spain.

[Pierre ZFP]

I don't think that sort of coverage is going to evoke much sympathy.  I can see it now

'poor old Mr & Mrs Rich will have to forgo a few G&Ts to pay for health care while they live it up in the sun'

Well, not quite and I fully appreciate the impact of this to a lot of people who are far from being Mr & Mrs Rich but it's all a question of how it is presented.

[sunshine 2]

I have just seen the BBC news item. I agree that it will not solicit any sympathy and does not represent the people in dire straights.

It must also have been made a couple of weeks ago as Hanrahan is on a tour. It is therefore completely out of date. I have mailed the BBC  with a brief update mentioning the MEP's involvement. But the momentum is gaining.

[cooperlola]

I thought that Mary Honeyball's approach to this and the Telegraph report was more sensible, and probably better puts the case forward as really, it's those with pre-existing conditions who are really badly affected.

[rothrugby]

I have been led to believe that there are two strands within French state health care which are relevant now to the debate.

1. CMU: universal care for those resident in France, and providing 100% reimbursement.

2. Regime obligatoire: ( may or may not be under auspices of CMU!) providing 65% reimbursement and requiring a mutuelle.

The regulations issued by the Social Security Department recently refer only to the CMU.

 

With reference to the above:

The CMU system is split into two categories:

1.CMU Base which everyone in cmu gets.  The state refunds a percentage of costs involved depending on what treatment is involved.  Within CMU Base certain illnesses are defined as life threatening & costs are refunded at 100%.

2.CMU Complementaire. This is a free top up policy to anyone on low income as defined by CPAM.

For anyone who has registered a E121 or E106 with CPAM the percentages refunded are paid for by the UK & not France.

[Rob]

I see on IFP this morning that French and EU officials are saying that the private health insurance policy will also need to cover travel, as we will not be entitled to a European Health Insurance Card:

http://forums.french-property.com/public-services-f10/rule-changes-on-health-cover-t1062-10.html?sid=96f0756ad3dc733315a338a58e7417d3#p4239

[cooperlola]

Yes, in fact Rob, many of the current policies which would be available to us (which were designed in the main with Spanish residents - in a similar position to us - in mind) include this. Otherwise, travel insurance would be necessary.  If the latter, anybody who has worldwide cover needs to look carefully at the small print because many only pay the difference between the medical bills and the costs covered by the EHIC, for travel within Europe.  This could be really problematical for trips back to the UK, where the EHIC would normally have covered all the costs - and it's the place most will go to on "holiday".

[Rob]

But surely as a UK national I can still get access to UK health service?

[cooperlola]

No.  That's the point.  You've upped sticks, so you live here, and are subject to the laws here. Up until now, CMU contributers here have had their EHIC's from France, not the UK.  These have been necessary for any and all medical treatment in the UK, as well as the rest of Europe.  Without membership of the CMU, no EHIC, no free treatment in the UK.

That's the theory.  Many just blag their way around this as most health practitioners and hospitals in the UK just treat anybody, if they appear to be English.  And some, who are actually legally resident here and who should behave as above, stilll have a house in Britain so just quote that address (even if the place is rented out long term to somebody else) and get away with it.  This is however, illegal.  The rule for free treatment in the UK is residency, not nationality.

[suein56]

[quote user="Rob"]

But surely as a UK national I can still get access to UK health service?

[/quote]

How? You have to be UK resident to benefit from cover by the NHS. So, if you are resident in France ... no UK cover.

Of course you will be able to access the NHS by paying for treatment, like any other non-resident.

Sue

Edit: Coops beat me to it again - and with a much better reply!

[AWood]

Dear All,

Many thanks to everyone who has been sending e-mails, please keep them coming and they will all be answered in due course. Do also feel free to cross post my posts into more relevant threads as I am sorry I do not have time to follow all of you.

The story was on BBC1 TV 1pm news and is scheduled but not guaranteed to appear on the 6pm and 10pm bulletins.  It also appeared in yesterday's Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/25/nexpats125.xml

Mary has submitted a question to the European Commission yesterday asking them to take action on this matter.  The question said:

"Is the Commission aware that as of 30th September 2007 the French government is going to require all British ex-pats living in France who are under the age of 65 and not working to take out private medical insurance at great expense?

This matter has been brought to my attention by a former constituent who is unable to work due to a disability and may be forced to move her family back to the UK as they are unable to meet the high costs of private health insurance? Due to a pre-existing medical condition it will be virtually impossible for her to obtain reasonably priced health insurance. Would the Commission accept that an exception should be made for those with pre-existing conditions?

Does the Commission see this requirement to purchase private health insurance as a restriction on the free movement of citizens within the EU and the rights to reside in any member state, and will it consider taking action to rectify this?"

Mary is now working with European Colleagues whose nationals are also affected, in particular Proinsas de Rossas from the Irish Labour Party.

Any suggestions for further relevant questions please e-mail suggestions to [email protected]

We are expecting further media coverage tomorrow. Keep on campaigning!

Many thanks,

Abigail Wood

Assistant to Mary Honeyball MEP

[Jay]

Has anyone here actually had their Carte Vitale revoked or

had a letter from an official source saying they will no longer be covered

after 1^st October? It seems to me that if the new regulations are to

come into force in just four days time those of us affected would have at least

had some communication from the powers that be.

I completed the “CMU declaration de revenus” as usual at the

beginning of this month and have not heard anything further from them.

Like many people here I have written to my MEP and am

awaiting developments, all in all a worrying time, particularly for those who

have serious ongoing medical problems.

[bubble]

Like you I have handed in all the info to the CMU but heard nothing, in fact the very helpful lady who I have seem each time said ' until next year ' Knowing what I know now not sure if that was a good remark or not !!

Am going in tomorrow to get my E111 as was renewed so will be interesting to see if I get one for another year !

[BJSLIV]

If things go as the French government plan nobody is scheduled to be be thrown out of the French system before the end of the year. If you are currently paying your 8%  then the deadline is March/April next year. The earliest victims would be anyone whose E106 runs out at the end of this year.

[Ron Avery]

Quite agree BJ, but then why were the two people in Gascony featured on the BBC articles asked to hand back their CVs?  Is there more to this story than meets the eye?  For example,  are they perhaps not filling in tax returns to confirm residency, running a business and not paying cotisations?  Changed circumstances etc etc, I think we should be told as these two are being held up as examples of what is happening now, not next year.

[Sunday Driver]

The Gascony CPAM were following the qualification rules in place at that time, which required the CV's to be returned upon expiry at 31 September.  As we all know, the deadline has now been extended, so their postion is no longer current.

Nothing suspicious....[;-)]