BREAKING NEWS ON EXPAT HEALTH COVER

[makfai]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]I would expect the cost to be around €5000/6000 per couple, per year for a comprehensive package, though that would exclude any pre-existing conditions.[/quote]

 

Doesn't it make a mockery of the new rules when private health insurance EXCLUDES existing conditions yet the EU Directive stipulation is that we

'have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State'

How can anyone comply with this when existing sickness is excluded!  Such cover does not exist for people who are already ill!

[mint]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

Thank you Bubble, that's really helpful.

I agree about the notification (or lack of same), shameful.  I have written to the DWP centre for non-residents to suggest that they write to all E106 holders to warn them.  It seems to me that it is the very least they can do.

[/quote]

Yes, Coops.  Just think of the thousands out there who wouldn't even know what's going to hit them!

[Chassaing]

[quote user="sweet 17"][quote user="cooperlola"]

Thank you Bubble, that's really helpful.

I agree about the notification (or lack of same), shameful.  I have written to the DWP centre for non-residents to suggest that they write to all E106 holders to warn them.  It seems to me that it is the very least they can do.

[/quote]

Yes, Coops.  Just think of the thousands out there who wouldn't even know what's going to hit them!

[/quote]

I have emailed, and telephoned all of my address book and given them the website address to this and other expat sites.  They are doing the same for their address book.

If we 'ALL' did the same, by the end of the week most people would be informed.

All the best,

[cooperlola]

That's a good idea and I'll do it, but I'm still not sure why it's our job!!!![:@]

[makfai]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

 I have written to the DWP centre for non-residents to suggest that they write to all E106 holders to warn them.  It seems to me that it is the very least they can do.

[/quote]

Excellent idea!

[Chassaing]

[quote user="cooperlola"]That's a good idea and I'll do it, but I'm still not sure why it's our job!!!![:@][/quote]

It is not our job, but if we don't do it someone could be more than financially hurt, we need to network with the other countries expats around Europe as well as the Spanish Expats.

[andyh4]

[quote user="bubble"]

I have German friends and that is indeed the case. They have to pay their bills in total and then claim it back from their own government. This can be a problem too if your income will not cover the bills but at least you know the money will be paid back to you. I think this is the case even before ' official ' retirement but my friend is coming to visit this afternoon so will clarify with her.

[/quote]

 

Nearly right.

 

The German system is an insurance system* - so everyone has to take out and pay for medical insurance.   So you claim back from the insurance company not the governement - and of course that is the issue.  There is no universal health care system across Europe so different nationalities will be affected in different ways by the legislation.

 

* which incidentally is a bankrupt as any other scheme and has to be financially supported by the governement.

I'll be interested in the retirement comments from your friend though

[Chassaing]

This is a cut and paste job from Total France:

Dear all,

Thank you for all the emails, they will be answered as soon as

possible. Just to keep you up to date this article appeared in the

Telegraph today http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/01/nexpats101.xml and Mary will be meeting with other MEPs this week to discuss taking this issue further.

Please email any question, suggestions or information to [email protected]. Keep campaigning!

Best wishes,

Abigail Wood

Assistant to Mary Honeyball MEP

[cooperlola]

I am hoping to be able to chat to Mark in Mary's office this afternoon.  I will let you all know what transpires.

[rothrugby]

I've just received this E mail from the Embassy in reply to mine sent last Monday.I've written back to say that we've phoned CPAM and they know less than we do! If you phone CLEISS they refer you to CPAM! The last on line statement from the French authorities- dated 24/9/07 -doesn't mention the 5 year rule but confirms the 6 month period for existing CMU members.I've pleaded with the Embassy to sort things out and not run out of steam on this issue.

Hello

 

Thank you for contacting the Public Enquiries section of the British Embassy, Paris. For further updated information concerning "French policy" applying to all inactive citizens from all EU countries. Please contact:

 

---

 

CPAM - The French Health Service (English language service):

 Tel:+33 (0)8 20 90 42 12

---

CLEISS - (France's helpdesk for international mobility and social security):

11 rue de la tour des Dames

75436 Paris cedex 09

Tel: +33 1 45 26 33 41  

http://www.cleiss.fr  

 

---

 

Kind regards,

British Embassy
Press and Communications Section

 

 

[Cat]

I think this link has already been posted elsewhere,  but it's worth posting here too

 http://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/10/1/health/

The article states "without wishing to raise hopes unduly" those refused private insurance due to existing conditions might be able to stay in the French health system, and also discusses the 5 year residency rule.

[bubble]

Good news I hope for some and maybe for the rest of us with a bit of luck!

I have spoken to my German friend and they do have insurance paid to Germany. As far as I can gather they get so much back from the government and the rest is covered by insurance. A similar system to France it seems. This cover is good for all countries in the EU at any age hence the reason they do not have to join the CMU.

I hate to say this but is the problem also the UK? If other countries cover their residents no matter where they live in the EU it would seem to me it is the UK which is just getting rid of us on the cheap ?

I was a Jobcentre manager in the UK and health cover would be provided whether you registered for work or not . Even if you are under normal retirement age and choose not to 'sign on ' So is it indeed cheapskate UK and possibly why the MP's are keeping their heads down !!

[Cat]

The Connexion is also reporting the same story http://www.connexionfrance.com/expatriate-news-article.php?art=45

[Me0wp00]

My parent's CV ran out on 30/9 so with fear and trepidation I phoned the CPAM yesterday to ask where the attestation was.  They phoned back today and asked, is your father retired ?? Oh yes   And is he retired in his own country ? errr No he's not 65 yet

In that case, under the new rules we will not be renewing your father's cover.

However during the telephone conversation it appears :-

They know of the 6 month rule but haven't had it communicated to them from the head office of CPAM and so cannot act on it. 

They also know of something changing with the 5 year rule but also cannot act on it.

If you sign on you will not be covered by CMU

If you start work VIA  cheques d'emploi once you have worked your 60 hours you will be covered

If You go back to uk and work, get a new e106 and return you'd be covered as long as you are in receipt of an E106 or E121.

They will not write confirmation that they are not renewing at this time as they have not been told to get the CV's returned and she said at the moment the CV's are not blocked but she told me to get looking for private health care and as soon as the 6 month rule is communicated to them she'd get in touch.  I think i'll phone next week and hope that the wheels are in motion for the 6 month rule being applied to the local CPAMS by then.

Any other ideas who we should contact with our unfortunate experience.

[cooperlola]

Initially, you could refer them to their own social security website and advice

http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/europe/cmu_inactifs.htm

Here it clearly states that those already within the CMU have a respite period until 31.3.2008.

If their CVs have run out because of E106 expiry then they need to get private cover now.  There is at least one plan (Exclusive's Gateway) which doesn't require a full year's policy and can be cancelled after any issues are resolved, just for peace of mind.

Please write to MEP Mary Honeyball [email protected] and explain what has happened as she needs ammunition for her EU case and media lobbying.

The IFP article also refers to a French avocat who is a specialist in this and will follow up individual and collective cases :

[email protected]

Complain to your French MEPs, your UK MP, and write to the newspapers.  Make a noise.  There are many points of contact in the Lobbying thread.

[Me0wp00]

The CPAM of L'indre know of the 6 month rule but until they get it in writing from their head office they cannot act on it in  individual cases, is what their saying.  My parents have been in France for 6 years this december and their Carte de sejours run out in December.  They moved initially on a 2 year E106 and have had the rest of the time covered by CMU and completed their tax returns and paid their 8%

Its very frustrating that they've done all of this above board and declared their incomes properly and still are being clobbered.

Their wishing their life away until my Dad reaches 65 and can get his E121

Life's a b***h and then you die  (let's hope after E121's and my mum is of pensionable age too)

[cooperlola]

Might I suggest that they use this "hiatus" period to get down to their prefectures and demand the titre de sejour permanent?  Then if the 5 year residency rule is confirmed they will have all their ducks in a row, ready to go.  This rule appears, on the surface at least - and from recent reports - to be uncontestable and could prove your parents' salvation in this.

Bon courage.

(But don't forget to get lobbying.  This limbo situation just ain't right.)

[rothrugby]

Hi,

Just thought I'd let people know that as a result of our members lobbying MEP's , we've received a reply confirming that they have contacted the Minister for Europe;

Jim Murphy MP

 Foreign & Commonwealth Office King Charles Street Whitehall London SW1A 2AH

To seek a clarification statement on the retrospective element and if this is true, to press the French Govt to reconsider. It shows that lobbying does help so keep it up

 

 

 

[makfai]

[quote user="Puzzled"]

The directive 38/2004 which is the basis of these reforms within the EU states at Article 37

More favourable national provisions

The provisions of this directive shall not affect any laws, regulations or administrative provisions laid down by a Member State which would be more favourable to the persons covered by this directive.

 

Does this mean that,  where national laws that are already in place are more advantageous to 'the persons', then that part of the  directive need not apply ?

If so, couldn't this be used as leverage to leave those persons already here and in the French health system alone?

 

[/quote]

I am afraid that this Article is not meant that way. It is intended to allow Governments to permit more favourable conditions if they wish.  So, for example, this would allow Governments to waive the need for private health insurance in some (or all) cases and not be in conflict with the directive.

[Joshua]

I understand this is a repeat of what happened in Spain some time ago. Am I right ?

If so, what was the outcome ?

[Cat]

News report just in.

 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml?xml=/global/2007/10/02/frenchhealth.xml  seems to confirm the 5 year residency question, but implies that the decision for those with conditions that would exclude them from private insurance has not yet been taken.

 

[cooperlola]

Thanks Cat.[:)]

[Ron Avery]

On the 11-00 radio news there was an announcement about "an improvement in the medical treatment of retired persons from abroad".  that was it, just that and followed by the sports news, anybody know any more?. 

[cooperlola]

Which channel, Ron?  It's bound to get repeated, maybe we could listen out then?

[Ron Avery]

TOTEM in the South west