Toni from Spain

[AnOther]

I caught a snippet on Sky news at lunchtime about the falling £ and somebody called 'Toni from Spain' had emailed in saying that between them (couple on state pensions I guess) they had lost €350/mth and asking why Moron wasn't doing anything to help people like them.

I was that angry I shouted back at the TV which is something I am not in the habit of doing - I won't repeat what I said !

We all made our choice and yes, of course I'm desperately sorry for those who, despite reasonable prudence and planning still find themselves 'dans le merde', but what makes people think they are owed something special by the country they left behind.

If it was the other way round with the € down the toilet would they be volunteering for a pension reduction, of course not.

Grrrr

[Benjamin]

It's precisely this attitude from a certain class of ex-pat which alienates the British public when support is needed over genuine grievances such as the French Healthcare Issue when I think a lot of us were surprised at the lack of support shown on general by those still living in the UK.

[Val_2]

€350/month is a third of many people's monthly take home wage here and they manage. Makes you sick to hear those brit types harping on when they are living the good life and made the decision to forsake their homes in the UK themselves.They will just have to stop filling their olympic sized villa swimming pools and buying new Jags every year won't they!!

[NormanH]

[quote user="Val_2"]€350/month is a third of many people's monthly take home wage here and they manage. Makes you sick to hear those brit types harping on when they are living the good life and made the decision to forsake their homes in the UK themselves.They will just have to stop filling their olympic sized villa swimming pools and buying new Jags every year won't they!![/quote]

350 euros is more than a third of some British pensioner's income in France too..

On a pension of £1000 which got 1500 euros in exchange not long ago, the present rate represents a loss of about that.

The problem is that is bigger loss for those for whom it is not disposable income...

[connolls]

A little "human" empathy might not go a miss on this subject instead of the snipes at each other. I'm certainly NOT one of those "Brit types" who fill their olympic sized swimming pools (I don't have one) or indeed own a Jag.    Just (I guess like a lot of people) trying to stay a float on a fixed income. Very few people are exempt from money concerns in the current global troubles and I sincerely hope that anyone "sitting very comfortably jack" doesn't  fall on difficult times themselves.

Come on people it's nearly christmas " THE SEASON OF GOODWILL"  !!!!

Have a happy one.

[Boiling a frog]

There does seem to be a lot of

"" You chose to come to France you you will just have to live with it"" attitude, and that is from fellow Brits who are inhabiting these forums. They are obviously not affected by the fall in value of their pensions. ,not that I think that the UK should bail us out, not like many of the comments on here during the health refusal crisis.

[Gastines]

It seems to be the normal English response these days to kick someone when they are down.I hope they have looked after their own better than the thoughts they extend on this site.

I'm leaving you now and I may be gone for some time.

Regards.

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="Gastines"]

It seems to be the normal English response these days to kick someone when they are down.I hope they have looked after their own better than the thoughts they extend on this site.

I'm leaving you now and I may be gone for some time.

Regards.

[/quote]

 

How right

And calling Gordon Brown a moron at every opportunity when ,clearly ,he may be many things,but he is not a moron.It is getting up my nose.[:@] 

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Benjamin"]It's precisely this attitude from a certain class of ex-pat which alienates the British public when support is needed over genuine grievances such as the French Healthcare Issue when I think a lot of us were surprised at the lack of support shown on general by those still living in the UK.



[/quote]Although clearly, Benjamin, there are parallels here.  Under the law as it now stands, residents must prove a minimum Euro income.  There are going to be people whose income has now fallen below the required amount and who now thus are illegal through no fault of their own.  Unlike those who still live in the UK, they have no social security safety net.  I can understand how the Tonis from Spain may feel.  They aren't entitled to pension credits, fuel allowances etc which would be the norm if they had not moved.  I get Ernie's point but I do hate the "you're living in the sun so you must be filthy rich" attitude, which can be especially unbecoming in a place such as this where we know for a fact that this is not always the case. 

But before you ask, no, I'm not going to campaign on TfS's behalf.[Www]

And yes, BaF, I agree.  I'm not GB fan but why is it that it's OK to call him a moron when in theory personal insults are not allowed on this forum?

[AnOther]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]And calling Gordon Brown a moron at every opportunity when ,clearly ,he may be many things,but he is not a moron.It is getting up my nose.[:@] [/quote]Sorry about that BAF but Moron is as Moron does and I will continue to address him as such unless told not to by the moderators - following which I will find something less charitable to to call him.

How do you know he isn't BTW, some very smart, wealthy, and influential people thought Madoff was a genius. In fact, to get away with what he did for so long, he was !

[powerdesal]

I'm not GB fan but why is it that it's OK to call him a moron when in theory personal insults are not allowed on this forum?

Because GB is not a forum member ?????

[NormanH]

"Under the law as it now stands, residents must prove a minimum Euro

income.  There are going to be people whose income has now fallen below

the required amount and who now thus are illegal through no fault of

their own. "

The root of the problem ( as it was with the Health issue) is that this regulation (which always was the case before 2000, and has now been re-introduced) was dropped for a period between  November 2003 and  November 2007.

Before that period you needed a 'carte de séjour' and to get that you had to prove that you had sufficient resources. Now that requirement as to resources  has been re-established.

That 4 year gap was a disservice to  a number of people who didn't need to think about whether they could afford to live here, and are now suffering.

Of course anybody who came in Nov 2003 will now be" legal", under the 5 year residence rule, but that doesn't help to pay the bills

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="ErnieY"][quote user="Boiling a frog"]And calling Gordon Brown a moron at every opportunity when ,clearly ,he may be many things,but he is not a moron.It is getting up my nose.[:@] [/quote]Sorry about that BAF but Moron is as Moron does and I will continue to address him as such unless told not to by the moderators - following which I will find something less charitable to to call him.

How do you know he isn't BTW, some very smart, wealthy, and influential people thought Madoff was a genius. In fact, to get away with what he did for so long, he was !

[/quote]

 

You are, of course, in a democracy, entitled to call anyone what you wish ,but  you are hardly engaging in any sort of intellectual debate , in fact you really just show yourself up as a small minded petty individual who is unable to develop any sort of argument ,and just resorts to calling people names.

[AnOther]

As you will BAF, you are as entitled to your opinion as the rest of us.

What do you want intellectually debate BTW, whether Gordon is a Moron or not ?

Moron (psychology), disused term for a person with a mental age between 8 and 12, slang for a stupid person.

Well clearly the former doesn't apply but there is ample scope to argue in favour of the latter, there are even 2 books in publication on the topic:

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/gordonis.htm

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gordon-Moron-Definitive-Objective-Chancellor/dp/189972608X

Do you consider that the position the UK is now in after 10 years of his stewardship is what you would expect of a clever person, abolishing tax relief on dividends, a vindictive act almost universally accepted as being responsible for the destruction of the pensions industry. Selling gold not only at the bottom of the market but unbelievably advertising it before hand giving the markets the opportunity to sell short and further depress the price, I could go on.....Moron will go down uniquely in history as both the worst chancellor AND prime minister the country has seen in modern times.

No to belittle the problems and stark choices many are facing, and not to anything like the same degree either admittedly, but the current shambles has

not passed me by. I've lost at least a 1/3 of my retirement fund so far from being able to look forward to

retiring in a couple of years time at 60 I now face little or no option but

to work on until the bitter end. Paid in sterling I've also effectively lost 30% of my income compounded by having to pay much more into my pension just to play catchup without even knowing if that is good money after bad because I have little confidence that we have yet seen the end of this global catastrophy.

[dragonrouge]

ErnieY I have over the years read with at times considerable interest in your postings seemingly being balanced half intelligent and logical.  I will not read any more.

Your views as to the Prime Minister are yours and should be supported for it is your right to so comment.

Equally now to my right.  My forefathers were amongst the original members of the Labour Party and when it was only God and the Unions that supported them when they worked in two foot nine seams in the pits on their bellies.  You will never be able to comprehend the suffering that they went through.  Never ever.  I no longer support the Party having been a card holder for many years.  My forefathers have turned in their grave when one of theirs turned his back on the movement.  But that is my decision and my right but my views are essentially private ones and I do not broadcast them on this site for it surely is for issues to do with France not the political maelstrom in the UK.  To throw bombs as you have done adds nothing.

Now a final parting comment. I was in South Wales when one of our political leaders closed down the pits and the carnage that has done has cost more that our current Prime Minister has ever caused.  I do not need lectures from you on this subject for bluntly I have too much ammunition both as a socialist one time now a lawyer who fights for the underdog and at each and every opportunity.

I am not sure but did we not send some of our army personnel to look for the son of the then PM and was it not the same guy who did plea bargaining (mods this is in the public domain) to get himself out of a hole in Africa.

I am dismayed at all of this and ErnieY you seemingly have retired early but pension not due for some time so somewhere along the road you also took the money and moved away.  Private or public sector?

 

[dragonrouge]

ErnieY I have just sat here and thought about a few things and tried to see where this is all taking us and it is nowhere.

I wonder if you have ever considered the then leader of Westminster Council and the re-allocation of votes and cemeteries.  We of course as a nation had to chase her to Israel.  Not sure if she was Tory or Labour.

Then of course a one time Labour MP and now associated with the government who benefitted from a loan from the Paymaster General.  Thus the point I am making is that as in life there are good bad and indifferent people and we all have views but to broadcast them wholesale adds nothing

[Will]

[quote user="ErnieY"]...whether Gordon is a Moron or not ?

 ...there are even 2 books in publication on the topic:

[/quote]

Nice try Ernie, but are they not two links to the same book? Rather a poor show when the man has some 90 self-published titles to his credit?

Would that be the same Vernon Coleman, the anti-European transvestite who is much loved by a certain breed of tabloid reader with rather, er, right wing views? The one who is a failed doctor, who has written books about how he is the only one in step and it was the rest of the medical profession which has failed (Is your doctor killing you? et al)? And who had a spoof agony uncle column in The People, whose replies were published in another book entitled I hope your penis shrivels up? Not sure which is the greater moron - a senior politician or somebody who makes Jeremy Clarkson look sane...

Oh, by the way, Vernon Coleman has a house in France and so probably reads, and contributes to, this forum. [:D]

[AnOther]

I'm rather taken aback at all of this and I'm sincerely sorry that anyone has taken offence at what I have written. It was not my intent.

 

For the record, and if you care to properly read my posts, no, I am not retired - I wish - and the fact that I'm talking about my pension fund should tell you that its private not public. We sold up and left UK planning that the balance of the proceeds would facilitate an early retirement and that we would live on savings and income from those until our pensions kicked in. A plan which is now dead in the water.

As a 'a lawyer who fights for the underdog' I freely acknowledge

that you are probably my intellectual superior which makes your

characterisation of me as balanced half intelligent and logical,

al the more confusing being as it is both complimentary and insulting but no

matter. Interesting to know quite how you think I have lectured you

though, I thought I was responding to BAF.

As my comments on this subject seem to be causing such controversy and, as you say it is taking us nowhere, I shall refrain from further posting and finish with a leaf out of connells book by wishing all a Merry Christmas [:D]

[John L]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

How do you know he isn't BTW, some very smart, wealthy, and influential people thought Madoff was a genius. In fact, to get away with what he did for so long, he was !

[/quote]

It is slightly comical that Bernard Madoff "Made Off" with all the loot and then says he has nothing to show for it.

[ali-cat]

[quote user="powerdesal"]
I'm not GB fan but why is it that it's OK to call him a moron when in theory personal insults are not allowed on this forum?

Because GB is not a forum member ?????
[/quote]

I'm absolutely gob smacked by the comments being thrown ErnieY's direction!! Over the last few years this forum has been filled with nothing but “Bush bashing” & more recently comments about “Sarko” or ”Moose head Palin” who as far as I am aware are not forum members either. But if someone calls Gordon Brown a “moron” it's suddenly an offence. Sorry, but this strikes me as nothing short of double standards & not being able to take what you dish out. 

[Benjamin]

I was going to leave this alone after some of the venom that was aimed at Erniey as he can look out for himself but it's a slow afternoon so let's get back to the original topic.

There were two news items on the BBC in the last 24 hours about families loosing their homes. The one last night on Midlands Today concerned a family who had their home repossessed in 1992. there was an original outstanding amount of £30,000 but the Chelsea Building Society negotiated with the evicted family and agreed to accept a sum of £3,000 to be paid off at the rate of £50 per month (don't forget even if you loose your house you are still liable for any debts outstanding).

The Building Society are now threatening court action to force the sale of their current house as it appears that the family never kept up with the agreed payments as well as asking for £81,000 because that is what the original debt from 1992 has grown to. The father was depicted in the report as saying this was a very unfair stance for the Society to take even though they had tried to negotiate a very reasonable payment schedule.

The second report is truly tragic. A family with three small children are to be evicted on 30 December for falling behind with their mortgage payments. As well as the mortgage there is a "house" loan and a loan for a car unpaid. The reason for this is that the father lost a well paid job and is now accepting what work he can find; the household income has fallen from £35,000 tp £13,000. He was interviewed on Breakfast Time this morning and fully accepted he was responsible for the situation but in mitigation did point out that lenders in the past had been throwing money at them.

The difference between these two stories is that one person, even though he broke an agreement, does not accept responsibility for his actions whereas the other person, who has just had some really bad luck at probably the worst time since owning their home, puts his hand up and accepts his responsibility.

Many people do not accept responsibilities but expect others, in Toni's case the UK Government, to bail them out when the going gets tough. It was his decision to leave the UK and he should either do something to help himself or stop whingeing.

And before the bleeding hearts get on my case we are finding it just as uncomfortable financially as the next person.

 

[Renaud]

"Toni from Spain" is this a typo?

Can it be a Tony from Connaught Square who is complaining about the government is now being run?

[Tom]

It's not only Gordon who clobbered pensions.

About 40% of the money people save and invest for their pensions goes in charges to fund managers, brokers and intermediaries.

If these charges were added back, or more realistically if charges were reduced to the levels which rule in countries like Holland, which would allow half to be added back, then the returns to savers would be transformed. The pension that these savers would have available when they do retire would be increased by at least a fifth. Saving for a pension would become significantly less of a burden.

It is widely accepted by these professionals that the return to pensions savers comes from the tax relief the savers get on their contributions. All the investment gain is eaten up by professional fees and charges.

The above is from an article in tonight's Evenng Standard

pensions

 

[Renaud]

What is particularly irritating about pension fund managers is that they usually job hop every 18 months so therefore never staying long enough to see if their investment decisions pay off.

[woolybanana]

Bit like social workers who never see the coffins they have filled!!