Do you care where your food comes from ?

[Scooby]

Dog - just curious as to how your pigeon racing and shellfish / jellied eel van fit with your veggie / be nice to the animals line?  As I recall pigeon fanciers use tiny cages quite a lot in their hobby...a hobby that is more in the owners' interest than that of the birds??

[dragonrouge]

Dear Dog I absolutely respect your views and equally your right in expressing those views.  Equally you hopefully will be able to respect my views and my approach to food per se.

This is a very emotive subject and I would have thought that what is not required here is for you with respect to try to force your views on others.  You have made yourself absolutely clear and we respect you for that.  What I am finding it difficult is however the fact that we are being harassed and chased for not agreeing with you.

I love fish but will not eat Cod for obvious reasons.  My wife does not eat fish so essentially there is little fish in our diet.  I love crab and prefer to boil my own but that might now start you on a mission against me.  If so then I will respect your approach but only if personal attacks are left somewhere else. I eat meat and try to buy bio as best I can and certainly when I lived in the UK bought from only one source who raised his stock with the utmost of animal husbandry and care for the animal and the distance between the farm and the abbatoir was very minimal.  But I will not eat abats I will not eat foie gras and never ever veal.

However there are many on here who do so its back to respect again and I believe I should not try to force them to go along with my beliefs.

I do not smoke never have but for those who do its a personal thing and unless I am assailed by it as I was on many occasions in a restaurant then its not a problem .  I have seen what happened to my Father who was a miner and smoked and the after effects on the lungs.  But if you want to smoke smoke.  But there is a downside in all of this as well in that in the warmer weather here in France one might wish to eat outdoors in a restaurant.  So to will those who smoke and who are obeying the rules in smoking outside!

I drink predominately red wine and those who know me well will tell you only wines from the Rhone and which have been my love for over thirty years.  There are some on here who would say that Bordeaux is better Burgundy et al.  Essentially in all of this are personal views which in the majority of cases should be supported but minus personal attacks.

[dragonrouge]

Dear Dog

I do apologize for I missed one little issue and which I would now like to put to you.

Have you ever been to the wine producing regions of South Africa and before you pose the same question to me I would answer in the affirmative. I have also been on a cricket tour of South Africa and would never go again for I too have very strong feelings as to even today the treatment of others in South Africa but my views like religion and where we come from is absolutely a concept for myself and no one else.

Still quickly back to food and indeed wine.

I will not bore you with what the people in the wine regions get paid or how they live or how they bring up their families or aids or anything like that.  If you knew and with your strong views I suggest you would not drink South African red wine again.

But if you went to north of Valreas in the Rhone and to a wonderful vineyard where no poison in sight or to Beaucastel near CDP you would buy their wines.  Personal choice again.

If you have or have not is a very important question and one I think you might have difficulty with whatever the answer.

[Frenchie]

[quote user="dragonrouge"]

what is not required here is for you with respect to try to force your views on others.  You have made yourself absolutely clear and we respect you for that.  What I am finding it difficult is however the fact that we are being harassed and chased for not agreeing with you.

[/quote]

Exactly !!!!

 

Please, dragonrouge, what is the exact name of that wine you have ? Makes me feel like trying it.

[Âme]

[quote user="Christine Animal"]...it's the main course I'd like different suggestions for.  [/quote]

Tofu is widely available in France. Bjorg Tofu Nature from the supermarket or, even more tasty is smoked tofu from Biocoop.

I open the vacuum sealed pack, drain off the liquid then squeeze out all the excess moisture in sheets of kitchen roll/a clean tea towel. This makes the tofu more crispy when fried.

Cut into cubes, it adds protein and texture to curries, pasta, stir-fries etc. and is also nice with salad. You could also marinate it for different dishes.

A few main courses I've made recently:

'Sausage' plait (for a quick packet alternative to making your own 'sausage' you can use Direct Foods Burgamix, a soya protein mix, plus Sage & Onion Stuffing mix) the mix is shaped then wrapped in pastry. I served this 'Sunday-lunch-style' with veg & gravy.

Deep quiches with eggs & cheese: spinach and pine nut, mushroom, or shallow flans like mozarella & tomato.

To get protein into the diet without adding too much cholesterol (eggs & cheese) requires a bit of thought. I add nuts & seeds wherever possible; in bread, salads, breakfast (yoghurt/muesli) on pasta dishes...  I make houmus (chick pea & sesame seed paste) and use as a dip, for canapes or on the side of salads. A good source of vitamin B12 is a yeast based spread e.g. Marmite or Vegemite, used as a spread or to flavour dishes.

I hope that gives you a bit of inspiration. If I were to recommend one recipe book from my shelf it would be Delia's Vegetarian Collection. 

And finally, 'ladies fingers;' I know this from the UK as okra.

 

[dragonrouge]

OK in Chateau Neuf du Pape Chateau Beaucastel is so very well known all over the world indeed and just down the road from them are two sisters who do not spray and do things in line with the moon but I forget the name of the Domain. Every year in the UK I used to look forward to the opening offers from Lay and Wheeler and Tanners of Shrewsbury on the Beaucastel offering.  Pay for it then and eighteen months later in my cellar at home and where it was treasured!  Keep it for say two to three years and then sell some cases and which paid for one owns consumption.

 

But the other is Gramenon and this is what it says ' Le vin en liberte' Montbrison-sur-lez and its just up the road from Valreas.  They have over 100 year vines and restricted quantities so the deal is some of the very good wine from 100 year vines and say two to three bottles of the slightly not so good!

Unfortunately Phillipe died in a tractor accident a few years ago but his wife continues with the business.

I really do recommend a holiday in the Rhone start off with Hemitage and Cote Rotie and then Cornas in the North go down to the Cote du Rhone and CDR villages CDP Gigondas and the lovely restaurants thereabout throw in the markets including Isle sur Sorgue on Sunday perfect ten day holiday

 

[Frenchie]

Oh dragonrouge, you'd get on well with my mum !! LOL

All those names evoke her favourite wines, and Gigondas is also one of my favourites ever.

I will try some of those you ve mentioned, sounds just perfect to me !

MERCI !!

 

[WJT]

I don't understand why the gang up against Dog. Someone mentioned to start his own thread well just take a look at the title of this thread.[:@] Sounds like bullying to me. I respect the views of Dog. I don't eat meat but do eat poultry and fish and I take on board everything Dog has said as well as Frederick the OP.

It wouldn't be such a bad thing if many of us thought more about where our food comes from. I for one respect someone that is brave enough to voice his views even if it is with passion not to mention actually live by them and not be a hypocrite.

Obviously there are the hard B's that are callous and just don't give a damn but also the hypocrites. Some pretend to be caring gentle people that care about cruelty to animals but will eat the cruelest products on the planet. Such as veal and foie gras. In my opinion even the biggest meat eaters can draw a line when it comes to the suffering an animal endures for their own pleasure. So it is interesting to read some of the hostile comments, perhaps a raw nerve.

Frederick, thank you for starting this thread and I will give more thought to the fish I eat. Dog as much as I respect your views I will continue to eat fish. But even here I would draw a line for example throwing a live Lobster or anything live in a pot of boiling water is now in the most part behind us and known to be unnecessarily cruel. So perhaps the more aware of where our food comes from the more humane we may become, or is that an oxymoron.[:(]

 

[Frenchie]

Dog doesn't care about respect  = "  Vegetarians do not want respect they want animals to be left alone."

So , he keeps going with that same opinion we ve heard too many times on different threads.

We are not deaf , we've understood his point.

If I can accept and respect his own point of view, maybe he could try and respect ours too.

No, we 're not blood thirsty creatures who don't give a damn about animals .

And so, if there are bullies on here, or even trolls, I wonder who they are.

 

[ventodue]

[quote user="Dog"] 1.2 million tons of Pollack were stolen from the sea the other year in Alaska - it may be considered sustainable????

But they also caught as a 'by product' many other endangered species. [/quote]

Different species, Dog.  The one I referenced is Atlantic Pollock, Pollachius pollachius, the one you're talking about is Alaskan Pollock, Theragra chalcogramma.

But you're absolutely right.  According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration  the population of Alaskan Pollock in 2008 was almost 50 percent lower than last year's survey levels.

I quote from their press release of 20 November 2008

NOAA has released new scientific information showing a decline in the biomass that has the agency recommending a cut to the pollock catch for 2009 in the eastern Bering Sea. "Although the pollock biomass was well above average in the 1990s, our surveys show a substantial decline in recent years," said Doug DeMaster, science and research director for NOAA’s Alaska Fisheries Science Center.

Amicalement

Craig

[WJT]

[quote user="Frenchie"]

Dog doesn't care about respect  = "  Vegetarians do not want respect they want animals to be left alone."

So , he keeps going with that same opinion we ve heard too many times on different threads.

We are not deaf , we've understood his point.

If I can accept and respect his own point of view, maybe he could try and respect ours too.

No, we 're not blood thirsty creatures who don't give a damn about animals .

And so, if there are bullies on here, or even trolls, I wonder who they are.

 

[/quote]

I do understand Frenchie and I haven't seen the other threads you mentioned so I can't comment on those, this is the first I have seen.

I don't want to put words in Dog's mouth but from my perspective, it is hard to respect someone that would eat veal for example. I won't say what I really think.  It may be legal to eat this in a country that sadly still offers it, but respect would not be a word I would use. But I can understand where "one" would respect Dog's views and lifestyle choice. It is very very easy to choose the other and think of "oneself"only. Perhaps respect is not the correct word to use in this situation.

P.S. By the way, I never use the term "one" except occasionally written on the forum because "you" could be taken as personal.[:)]

[Frederick]

  Getting back to Basa for a moment .........another point is apart from being farmed in the filthy waters of the Mekon river...it appears Vietnam is not strict on what chemicals they use in fish farms ....Malachite Green is a chemical used to fight fungus infection in decorative fish that you might keep at home ....Traces have been found in the farmed fish...its banned in the West for use on fish for human consumption  as its toxic I believe ....

[Russethouse]

Isn't your view on veal rather 'broad brush' ?

I didn't eat it for years but now it is posible to buy veal that is more humanely produced, and on rare occasions I have seen it on a restaurant menu's

http://www.meateat.co.uk/why-british-veal-more-ethical-choice.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7200018.stm

I'd never eat Dutch veal for example, but I just might eat this, I used to love veal before principals got in the way....

[Hoddy]

I don't think anyone would want to deny Dog a right to his opinions but the evangelising tone of his posts and expressions like 'piscatorial perverts" aren't likely to encourage people to agree with him.

The thing is we all bring our own experience, priorities and perspectives to this subject. I would not describe myself as a caring and gentle person and don't feel the need to pretend to be one.

I have never eaten veal in my life because I was brought up not to. I hardly ever eat fish because I do not like it much. I used to eat 'shop bought' chicken until they started to use the hangars on the old WW2 bomber stations round here to raise chickens in. One look was enough and now I make sure I know where the chicken comes form.

I have no strong feelings about foxhunting but during the debate I was mystified at how people could get so excited about it when millions of chickens were being tortured in the UK every year and few seemed to care. I'm glad that Jamie Oliver has caught up with me.

I have seen cows, sheep and pigs killed and I still eat meat.

I have been called a racist for objecting to halal slaughter.

I think what we need is a little more tolerance of other people's views.

Other 'middle of the roaders' like me might like to consider this organisation -

http://www.ciwf.org.uk/

Hoddy

[Christine Animal]

Thank you very much for your suggestions Ame, very helpful.   [:)]

I never buy fish from Vietnam, saw a programme on it not long ago.

 

[Christine Animal]

I was for many years a member of the OABA (Oeuvre d'Assistance aux Bêtes d'Abattoirs)  http://www.oaba.fr/

They are not against eating meat, but try to see that the animals at the markets and the abattoirs are treated properly, stunned and do not suffer.  They have helped a great deal, but it's not enough.  Like you Hoddy, they are against the halal slaughter.

 

[Frenchie]

I completely agree with this Christine . This organization has done a great job indeed.

That s exactly how I feel. Everything must be done to cause no suffering or as little as possible.

I am no specialist but stunning before killing is what I think is done in most cases. ( hopefully)

I ve seen a cow being killed, it was very quick, no stunning but a " poinçon" direct in the brain. instant death. OK by my standards.

And I am against the halal slaughter .

I ve seen it done in front of me in north Africa.

I think France should forbid it.

 

 

[Dog]

My primary interest is common or garden shed research on gene splicing. Most of the 'pigeons' have only one or two genes left in them and are primarily entwisted with other herbivores and amphibians.

You may be sad to know that The Rick Mayall Church of The Spinning Cross has now become swallowed up by The Elvis Presley Flying Rhinstone Christian Alliance Cathedral and meet in the Drill Hall every other wednesday - but not in the Morris Dancing Season when members get tooled up and stalk Morris Men. The Cathedral has a fine selection of bells now.

The site was set up in an idle hour at work some years ago with some new software that was bundled with some other programs. Please read the legal disclaimer. I have not profited in any way from this enterprise and do not have a pension entitlement.

 

 

 

[woolybanana]

Well, I suppose the sun is over the yardarm.

[Dog]

The idea that an animal can die humanely is peculiar, even if it was painless and the poor beast knew nothing of it's demise it has still been robbed of it's life.

Visit a lairage and tell me that those animals know nothing of what is to come.

I have slaughterhousemen misuse stunguns from sheer boredom and think it amusing to send a beast on still very much alive. I have seen unstunned pigs thrown straight into the boiling water of the de-bristling tank. I have seen a lamb having it's neck sawn off in a halal ritual. It is not much different to every other way of killing.

To go back to an earlier point about abbatoir workers becoming violent - it was in Chard in Somerset where there was a large industry based on animal slaughter. It became obvious that there was a far higher incidence of serious violence and knife use.

Seems to me that many people prefer to ignore what is really going on.

[Frederick]

Audite Nisus Dictata

[dragonrouge]

Of posting but now go to the restaurant on the main square in Gigondas where the previous owners were French back of house and German wife front.  Now the menu has totally changed and is wonderful.  The old owners now have a superb place in Sablet which is of course a CDR village.

[Dog]

[quote user="Frederick"]
Audite Nisus Dictata
[/quote]

Fred don't you mean 'Audite Nisus Dictator'?

I too was forced to do Latin for many years and was much into Rattle Javelin.

[Christine Animal]

Dog, one of the OABA campaigns years ago was to equip the abattoirs with stunguns, but they saw that often they were not used.  Agree with what you say about that, in fact with most of what you say.  But you can't tell other peopl what to do.  That's why, knowing they can't stop people eating meat, the OABA have been trying to help the animals that are used.

 

[Scooby]

I am an 'animal lover' but I do find it strange that some people seem to put kindness to animals above kindness to humans.  Animal charities seem to have more support than those supporting the elderly or mentally ill.  There are hundreds of posts on here about animal cruelty but next to nothing about the abysmal care of the elderly and sick in care homes.  When animals are sick and dying it is considered kinder to put them down - but living wills are frowned upon and those supporting the right of the seriously ill who wish to be able to end it are considered criminal?  Pets frequently get quicker and better care than their owners.  Perspectives are totally screwed.