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Do you care where your food comes from ?


Frederick
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[quote user="Frenchie"]

I'm sorry Dog but you don't know me and you can't say that..

I buy Label Rouge meat most of the time, and only free range eggs, and in Intermarché you know where the fish comes from .

Same thing at the market of course.

I have no pb with eating meat or fish, and I am an animal lover.

As long as the animal is killed without unecessary suffering I don't see anything wrong with that. 

[/quote]

 

Have you been in a meat packing plant? Meat is a very corrupt industry they will do anything for profit. They will alter labels repack out of date meat you just cannot beleive packaging.

I have not been in fish packing plants but I doubt if they are any different.

I find it difficult to beleive you are an animal lover - perhaps you just love some. I don't even particularly love animals but I let them live and leave them alone.

Killing animals is not an exact science, do you vist the abbatoir?

I have been in many abbatoirs and can assure you I have never seen an animal die without suffering.

Millions of animals live unhappy lives and are killed everyday to satiate the blood lust of greedy humans that have not realised the corrupt and cruel practices that are carried out in the name of profit and to have flesh on the plate.

I assure you abbatoirs are not pleasant most people that go to work in them leave before the day is out. The remainder become so callous that many commit very nasty crimes on humans.

I am sure you remember Ian Huntley that murdered the two school girls - he worked in a fish processing factory and I think in the meat production industry.

If you really love animals spread the love around.

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Dog, I do know you have a valid point.

My OH visited an abbatoir in a professional capacity (reporting on a collapsed roof) about 40 years ago and he hasn't eaten meat since.  Neither has his assistant, a young lad at the time.

I do eat meat because I love it.  I have never and will never visit an abbatoir.  But, I respect my OH's reason for not eating it and I cook 2 different meals most days.

It's quite hard in French homes but I just email or phone in advance and warn them that OH does not eat meat but not to do anything special as he'd eat the veg, the cheese, the pudding, etc.

It's to do with choice and I know that I am positively choosing not to know!  Cowardly?  Yes, but there again, I was brought up to eat everything that is put on your plate and that's what I do.

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[quote user="Dog"]

 

 

Have you been in a meat packing plant? Meat is a very corrupt industry they will do anything for profit. They will alter labels repack out of date meat you just cannot beleive packaging. I'm sure this happens but it's not a general practice !!

I have not been in fish packing plants but I doubt if they are any different.

I find it difficult to beleive you are an animal lover - perhaps you just love some. I don't even particularly love animals but I let them live and leave them alone. You can think what yuou want, but those who know me will tell you I do love animals.

Killing animals is not an exact science, do you vist the abbatoir? No, but I ve seen many videos.

I have been in many abbatoirs and can assure you I have never seen an animal die without suffering.

Millions of animals live unhappy lives and are killed everyday to satiate the blood lust of greedy humans that have not realised the corrupt and cruel practices that are carried out in the name of profit and to have flesh on the plate.

I assure you abbatoirs are not pleasant most people that go to work in them leave before the day is out. The remainder become so callous that many commit very nasty crimes on humans. How can you say that ??? Polls??

I am sure you remember Ian Huntley that murdered the two school girls - he worked in a fish processing factory and I think in the meat production industry. [blink][blink][blink]

If you really love animals spread the love around. I think I try to spread positive things around me.

[/quote]

I can't help finding you extreme Dog.( see what I ve highlighted in red )

 

I respect vegetarians, of course!!

Mais tu mets au pilori les gens qui mangent de la viande, et qui en sont pas tous de sanguinaires bourreaux sas coeur.. Un peu de mesure ne fait jamais de mal ............

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[quote user="Frenchie"][quote user="Dog"]

 

 

Have you been in a meat packing plant? Meat is a very corrupt industry they will do anything for profit. They will alter labels repack out of date meat you just cannot beleive packaging. I'm sure this happens but it's not a general practice !!

I have not been in fish packing plants but I doubt if they are any different.

I find it difficult to beleive you are an animal lover - perhaps you just love some. I don't even particularly love animals but I let them live and leave them alone. You can think what yuou want, but those who know me will tell you I do love animals.

Killing animals is not an exact science, do you vist the abbatoir? No, but I ve seen many videos.

I have been in many abbatoirs and can assure you I have never seen an animal die without suffering.

Millions of animals live unhappy lives and are killed everyday to satiate the blood lust of greedy humans that have not realised the corrupt and cruel practices that are carried out in the name of profit and to have flesh on the plate.

I assure you abbatoirs are not pleasant most people that go to work in them leave before the day is out. The remainder become so callous that many commit very nasty crimes on humans. How can you say that ??? Polls??

I am sure you remember Ian Huntley that murdered the two school girls - he worked in a fish processing factory and I think in the meat production industry. [blink][blink][blink]

If you really love animals spread the love around. I think I try to spread positive things around me.

[/quote]

I can't help finding you extreme Dog.( see what I ve highlighted in red )

 

I respect vegetarians, of course!!

Mais tu mets au pilori les gens qui mangent de la viande, et qui en sont pas tous de sanguinaires bourreaux sas coeur.. Un peu de mesure ne fait jamais de mal ............

[/quote]

 

I am not extreme there are millions of vegetarians in Europe.

People eat meat because there parents gave it to them as it was thought it was good for you - how times have changed.

Vegetarians do not want respect they want animals to be left alone.

No polls - it is sadly a well known fact in criminology that people that have spent all day slitting animals throats are not scared of the sight of blood and do the same to humans.

A good video I would suggest is a French one Le Sang des Betes.

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[quote user="sweet 17"]

Dog, I do know you have a valid point.

My OH visited an abbatoir in a professional capacity (reporting on a collapsed roof) about 40 years ago and he hasn't eaten meat since.  Neither has his assistant, a young lad at the time.

I do eat meat because I love it.  I have never and will never visit an abbatoir.  But, I respect my OH's reason for not eating it and I cook 2 different meals most days.

It's quite hard in French homes but I just email or phone in advance and warn them that OH does not eat meat but not to do anything special as he'd eat the veg, the cheese, the pudding, etc.

It's to do with choice and I know that I am positively choosing not to know!  Cowardly?  Yes, but there again, I was brought up to eat everything that is put on your plate and that's what I do.

[/quote]

Thanks for the post.

Please give your husband an extra portion tonight.

It isn't a pretty sight and it obviously affected him to change overnight.

Tell him to keep up the good work!

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I used to eat meat until a few months ago, though not really feeling good about it, but my husband would never give it up.

I used to watch the cattle leave the farm next to us in the lorry and feel like crying.  Where we are now, it's industrial rabbits.  Now I've seen those videos, actually seen what goes on, I can no longer caution that.  I still eat fish though.

I have never been used to vegetarian meals, so Dog or someone could you give an example of say what you had for dinner or lunch, whichever is your main meal.  I know you can look up recipes, but I would just like to know what you eat daily.

 

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Well, Christine, my OH does eat fish but with some reluctance.

This is what I often give him to eat:

Starter: vegetable soup

Main: pasta with homemade tomato sauce and walnuts or pine nuts sprinkled on top (for the protein)

Dessert: fruit crumble, or bread and butter pudding or fresh fruit and some cheese

Not that difficult really though more difficult in France than in the UK.  In the UK, I used to cook him vegetarian or quorn sausages, for example.  Also used to make spaghetti bolognaise with quorn mince.  Also, quorn curry, quorn chilli con carne, quorn stew, LOL!

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There are a number of issues floating here, Dog is a passionate animal lover and preaches (sorry but that is what it is) a very hard line.  I on the other hand confess to holding the opposite view, but do not want to force my view on others.  My only complaint is that whatever thread is started it gets highjacked and turns into the same old thou should not eat flesh...  We get it, but if you really want to educate and disseminate please start your own thread and stop boring us when we want to look at things differently from you.  I have the greatest respect for your position, but please have the same for mine.

Kindest regards

Simon

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[quote user="Simon"]There are a number of issues floating here, Dog is a passionate animal lover and preaches (sorry but that is what it is) a very hard line.  I on the other hand confess to holding the opposite view, but do not want to force my view on others.  My only complaint is that whatever thread is started it gets highjacked and turns into the same old thou should not eat flesh...  We get it, but if you really want to educate and disseminate please start your own thread and stop boring us when we want to look at things differently from you.  I have the greatest respect for your position, but please have the same for mine.

Kindest regards
Simon

[/quote]

 

Simon says "respect his position" which is? What is the opposite view. You have no concern for animals and don't have any interest in their welfare. You eat them 4 times a day?

I have not said I am a passionate animal lover - those are your words.

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Porridge and prunes for breakfast.

Water for lunch was flying kites and motorcycling.

Chick pea, ladies fingers,and lentil curries plus onion bhajis, nan breads plus carrot and apple chutney all washed down with a fine South African red.

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[quote user="Frenchie"]

http://www.intermarche.com/intermarcheetvous_metiers_endirectfilieres.aspx

That s what I meant about Intermarché.  I buy local fish at the marché, or from Intermarché.

[/quote]

Thanks for the link, Frenchie.

An interesting read.  I can see that Intermarché is trying to do something, but let's just take a closer look at the first 4 species which they specifically name in their "gamme de poissons « issus de pêche responsable » avec la légine, le sabre noir, la lingue bleue, la baudroie (ou lotte)".

Here are examples of what can be found in half an hour on the web.  All the sources quoted are reputable, including government fishery research organisations.  French first, English second:

Légine = Patagonian toothfish, Dissostichus eleginoides
Cela a entraîné une surexploitation de cette ressource halieutique. Des mesures de conservation ont été prises, mais une pêche illégale s'est développée dans de grandes proportions et une détermination criminelle rarement vue dans une activité économique comme la pêche. C'est ainsi plus de vingt navires qui ont été arraisonnés par la Marine nationale dans sa ZEE (Zone économique exclusive) depuis 1997.

--------------------------------------
Illegal overfishing threatens the species in some areas as the fish is slow-growing and reaches maturity between ten and twelve years of age. The longline fishery has also been criticized for drowning thousands of seabirds such as albatrosses. In the last few years, the management of several fisheries has improved with increased patrolling for illegal vessels and stringent regulations for legal operators. Although overfishing and illegal 'pirate fishing' are still problems in places, the Marine Stewardship Council has certified the fishery in South Georgia for sustainable management. South Georgia has the largest toothfish fishery, with a TAC (Total Allowable Catch) of around 3000 tonnes per year, taken by approximately ten vessels.
Illegal catches may be up to five times the legal catch limit. As a direct result some researchers have predicted a total collapse of the fishery within two to five years. The Patagonian toothfish lives in deep waters (from 300 to 3,500 metres) on seamounts and continental shelves around most sub-Antarctic islands, such as the exclusive economic zone of the French Southern Territories (Kerguelen Islands) ....  Because of poaching, the French Navy patrols the zone and has made numerous arrests and seizures. Australian Customs vessels have pursued illegal toothfishing ships up to 6100 kilometres at times.  Illegal fishing for toothfish in the Southern Ocean is hazardous not only for the fish themselves, but for other wildlife in and around the waters. According to The Antarctica Project, "It is common practice in the illegal fishery to dynamite the [Sperm and Killer] whales when they are discovered in the area where the fishing takes place" and "…hundreds of thousands of endangered albatrosses and petrels dive for the [fish] bait and become hooked and drowned."
 
Sabre noir  = Black scabbardfish, Aphanopus carbo
La structure du stock est incertaine. Compte tenu de la baisse de l’abondance du stock perçue dans les zones nord, le CIEM recommande une réduction de l’exploitation à son niveau d’avant l’expansion de la pêcherie (1990-1996) dans les sous zones V, VI, VII et XII, ce qui correspond à des débarquements ne dépassant pas 3 500 t.
------------------------------------------------------
The Marine Conservation Society has rated the scabbardfish as a species vulnerable to overfishing. According to MCS, there is little information to indicate the fishery to be sustainable.

Lingue bleue = Blue Ling, Molva dypterygia
En 2008, quelle que soit la zone où elle est exploitée, l'espèce ne bénéficie pas de mesure de protection ni même d’objectif de gestion spécifique. Les experts, selon l'Ifremer, estimaient en 2006 qu'il fallait dans la plupart des cas stopper la pêche ciblant l'espèce, et quand elle est une prise accessoire, des fermetures temporaires (saisonnières) de pêche pourraient lui laisser le temps de commencer à reconstituer ses populations.
----------------------------------------------------
It appears that the stock is seriously depleted - ICES advises that there should be no directed fisheries for blue ling and that closed areas introduced to protect spawning aggregations should continue or expand where needed and capture of blue ling in mixed fisheries should be minimized. Historical overfishing in the Faroes and Iceland has shown that once this species is fished down in an area, it does not recover, even when fishing pressure is low.

Baudroie = Angler or Monkfish, Lophius piscatorius
Greenpeace a placé la baudroie sur sa liste rouge et recommande d'en cesser la consommation jusqu'à ce que sa survie soit assurée. En effet il s'agit d'une espèce à la croissance lente et parvenant tardivement à l’age adulte, vulnérable face à la surexploitation.
------------------------------------------------------
Based on the most recent estimate of the fishing mortality, ICES classifies the stock as being harvested outside safe biological limits. The combined area assessment indicates that the recent levels of fishing mortality have been well above the proposed precautionary level. The fish are exploited at an early age due to their size and shape, and are subject to considerable mortality prior to reaching maturity.

 

 

In summary, I suggest that, even if Intermarché itself is following sustainable fishing practices, it would appear that all 4 species remain susceptible to considerable over-expoitation.  Surely it would just be better to avoid?

 

P.s  The fifth species on Intermarché's list, Lieu noir = Pollack, Pollachius pollachius is NOT considered to be over-fished.  So there's some good news! 

 

Amicalement

 

Craig

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Thanks Sweet for a valid reply.  The starters and dessert are easy enough, it's the main course I'd like different suggestions for.  After the curries and pasta, any other ideas?  Walnuts are also good for the cholesterol.  Don't know what the ladies fingers are, have plenty of fish fingers though!

Just don't let Dog get you worked up, take him with a pinch of salt and we'll be all right.   [:D]

 

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[quote user="Christine Animal"]

Thanks Sweet for a valid reply.  The starters and dessert are easy enough, it's the main course I'd like different suggestions for.  After the curries and pasta, any other ideas?  Walnuts are also good for the cholesterol.  Don't know what the ladies fingers are, have plenty of fish fingers though!

Just don't let Dog get you worked up, take him with a pinch of salt and we'll be all right.   [:D]

 

[/quote]

 

Yesterday leek sausages.  Ladies fingers are Gombos in France.

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[quote user="ventodue"][quote user="Frenchie"]

http://www.intermarche.com/intermarcheetvous_metiers_endirectfilieres.aspx

That s what I meant about Intermarché.  I buy local fish at the marché, or from Intermarché.

[/quote]

Thanks for the link, Frenchie.

An interesting read.  I can see that Intermarché is trying to do something, but let's just take a closer look at the first 4 species which they specifically name in their "gamme de poissons « issus de pêche responsable » avec la légine, le sabre noir, la lingue bleue, la baudroie (ou lotte)".

Here are examples of what can be found in half an hour on the web.  All the sources quoted are reputable, including government fishery research organisations.  French first, English second:

Légine = Patagonian toothfish, Dissostichus eleginoides
Cela a entraîné une surexploitation de cette ressource halieutique. Des mesures de conservation ont été prises, mais une pêche illégale s'est développée dans de grandes proportions et une détermination criminelle rarement vue dans une activité économique comme la pêche. C'est ainsi plus de vingt navires qui ont été arraisonnés par la Marine nationale dans sa ZEE (Zone économique exclusive) depuis 1997.

--------------------------------------
Illegal overfishing threatens the species in some areas as the fish is slow-growing and reaches maturity between ten and twelve years of age. The longline fishery has also been criticized for drowning thousands of seabirds such as albatrosses. In the last few years, the management of several fisheries has improved with increased patrolling for illegal vessels and stringent regulations for legal operators. Although overfishing and illegal 'pirate fishing' are still problems in places, the Marine Stewardship Council has certified the fishery in South Georgia for sustainable management. South Georgia has the largest toothfish fishery, with a TAC (Total Allowable Catch) of around 3000 tonnes per year, taken by approximately ten vessels.
Illegal catches may be up to five times the legal catch limit. As a direct result some researchers have predicted a total collapse of the fishery within two to five years. The Patagonian toothfish lives in deep waters (from 300 to 3,500 metres) on seamounts and continental shelves around most sub-Antarctic islands, such as the exclusive economic zone of the French Southern Territories (Kerguelen Islands) ....  Because of poaching, the French Navy patrols the zone and has made numerous arrests and seizures. Australian Customs vessels have pursued illegal toothfishing ships up to 6100 kilometres at times.  Illegal fishing for toothfish in the Southern Ocean is hazardous not only for the fish themselves, but for other wildlife in and around the waters. According to The Antarctica Project, "It is common practice in the illegal fishery to dynamite the [Sperm and Killer] whales when they are discovered in the area where the fishing takes place" and "…hundreds of thousands of endangered albatrosses and petrels dive for the [fish] bait and become hooked and drowned."
 
Sabre noir  = Black scabbardfish, Aphanopus carbo
La structure du stock est incertaine. Compte tenu de la baisse de l’abondance du stock perçue dans les zones nord, le CIEM recommande une réduction de l’exploitation à son niveau d’avant l’expansion de la pêcherie (1990-1996) dans les sous zones V, VI, VII et XII, ce qui correspond à des débarquements ne dépassant pas 3 500 t.
------------------------------------------------------
The Marine Conservation Society has rated the scabbardfish as a species vulnerable to overfishing. According to MCS, there is little information to indicate the fishery to be sustainable.

Lingue bleue = Blue Ling, Molva dypterygia
En 2008, quelle que soit la zone où elle est exploitée, l'espèce ne bénéficie pas de mesure de protection ni même d’objectif de gestion spécifique. Les experts, selon l'Ifremer, estimaient en 2006 qu'il fallait dans la plupart des cas stopper la pêche ciblant l'espèce, et quand elle est une prise accessoire, des fermetures temporaires (saisonnières) de pêche pourraient lui laisser le temps de commencer à reconstituer ses populations.
----------------------------------------------------
It appears that the stock is seriously depleted - ICES advises that there should be no directed fisheries for blue ling and that closed areas introduced to protect spawning aggregations should continue or expand where needed and capture of blue ling in mixed fisheries should be minimized. Historical overfishing in the Faroes and Iceland has shown that once this species is fished down in an area, it does not recover, even when fishing pressure is low.

Baudroie = Angler or Monkfish, Lophius piscatorius
Greenpeace a placé la baudroie sur sa liste rouge et recommande d'en cesser la consommation jusqu'à ce que sa survie soit assurée. En effet il s'agit d'une espèce à la croissance lente et parvenant tardivement à l’age adulte, vulnérable face à la surexploitation.
------------------------------------------------------
Based on the most recent estimate of the fishing mortality, ICES classifies the stock as being harvested outside safe biological limits. The combined area assessment indicates that the recent levels of fishing mortality have been well above the proposed precautionary level. The fish are exploited at an early age due to their size and shape, and are subject to considerable mortality prior to reaching maturity.

 

 

In summary, I suggest that, even if Intermarché itself is following sustainable fishing practices, it would appear that all 4 species remain susceptible to considerable over-expoitation.  Surely it would just be better to avoid?

 

P.s  The fifth species on Intermarché's list, Lieu noir = Pollack, Pollachius pollachius is NOT considered to be over-fished.  So there's some good news! 

 

Amicalement

 

Craig

[/quote]

 

1.2 million tons of Pollack were stolen from the sea the other year in Alaska - it may be considered sustainable????

But they also caught as a 'by product' many other endangered species.

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[quote user="woolybanana"]Doggie baby, eat what you like and leave others to make their choices, OK?[/quote]

 

You are one bent banana. What and why do you chose to eat?

Bananas are a thorny subject - many are produced by near slave labour, do you approve?

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[quote user="sweet 17"]

My OH visited an abbatoir in a professional capacity (reporting on a collapsed roof) about 40 years ago and he hasn't eaten meat since.  Neither has his assistant, a young lad at the time.

[/quote]

Confirmed meat lover here - buy most of my meat from the local abattoir or we get it from my brother who has a farm. We also help out with slaughtering / plucking his poultry.  Sometimes the meat from the abattoir is so fresh it's still warm [;-)].   We used to keep (and kill) our own chickens but I have to say I've not (yet) been tempted to take a hatchet to someone as a consequence!

If we weren't meant to eat meat we wouldn't have been born with canine teeth.  I believe we are classed as omnivores not herbivores.

As an aside, if you are a strict vegetarian you have an increased risk of B12 deficiency.  Current scientific consensus is that, whilst eggs and dairy have some B12, there are no reliable plant sources for B12.  Research into other cultures that are traditionally vegetarian showed that their B12 came from eating the insect droppings and dirt on unwashed plants / vegetables. 

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