Russethouse Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Well frankly Kathy beat me to it. Venus ? Mars? Jupiter ?Your statement about people coming from a poor background remaining jealous is deeply offensive to anyone who has pulled themselve up by their boot straps and made a decent life. No wonder you are happier in France, some of the people you say you knew seem like right ******* to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 For some reason Jon/Barbara whne you post it leads to lots of misunderstandings on both sides. Yes we are talking about the OP moving from good jobs in the UK to who knows what in France. We are advising him that it's not easy and that he should consider renting first. We are also saying education is not great in France so dn't move here just for that reason. You are coming at this from a different angle, near retirement I woudl guess and not with a family to raise. Most of the respnders on this post do live here, not sure why you keep making that poiint and I have a child i school here and have found it difficult such that I am returning to england.Most french people in rural areas are poor, they are not happy poor either in my epxerience, the talk at the school gates is mostly doom and gloom and tittle tatle, not much else goes on. Where you live are you really sayng no one earns minimum wage and that they are all happy and poor??PLease don't go into one of your floaty posts, just type it as you would say it for a chance that we can all understand your point more clearly.Panda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Many of the people I meet in the village and surrounding seem to be making a living ...do not know about the exact weekly figure...but they get from 10 euros per hour to 25 depending on what they do....by cheque employ.They seem to be working a good part of the working week.You see unhappiness....I do not.Then there are the numerous artisans who have been working around the area....they get paid rather well.The people in buisness seem to be ok too.Maybe this area is slightly more affulent than others......but I live here and chose to live here.It feels like some of you are creating a dramatic view of the way the French live.Most of them have more than I ever did as a child....but that does not bother me.Maybe some of you have not been successful in making life work for you here....perhaps the schooling is not adequate or "YOUR CUP OF TEA" .Maybe you did not research the schools too well....or even the area where you chose.But for some of you ...alll will be well when your are back in UK.I have clients arriving.If I want to make myself depressed by the attitude of others.....I know where to go.But no need to be so gloomy....others may be happy here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 It's a shame my attitude depresses you, yours amuses me. I have lived in 3 different areas of France and have travelled extensively, I have never seen what you have seen and I lived not that far away. I have a couple of weeks left here in France and will be in your area for much of that, I must come and have a look. As I've said many times I loe France, it is just not good for those who need to earn a living or with children of school age. If you have found in an area where the French are truly happy I would love to see it as I will retire to France one day and will be looking for somewhere with a nice atmosphere. I'll call in if I make it to your town.Panda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 This thread is sure getting depressing , all this talk of poverty , are the French heading for another revolution ?I live in the Limousin , out in a rural part but I don't see the poverty described here . Go to a supermarket peoples trolleys are full , the car park is full of newish cars. I went to a local function at a village hall , it was full of French who had paid 30 euros a head and again a car park full of cars.Go to a brico and the French are lining up to pay these high prices for paint . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5-element Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 [quote user="krusty"] I live in the Limousin , out in a rural part but I don't see the poverty described here . [/quote]And yet, if you see some of the INSEE figures....En Limousin au 31 décembre 2003, 27 600 allocataires des Caisses d'Allocations Familiales représentant 60 800 personnes ont un niveau de vie inférieur au seuil de bas revenus, soit moins de 719 euros par mois. C'est ainsi le tiers de la population de référence qui peut être considéré comme « pauvre » selon cette approche.http://www.insee.fr/fr/insee_regions/limousin/themes/focal/focal11.pdfThat was in December 2003, and standard of living has gone down further since. One third of the population in Limousin lives below the poverty threshold, which was considered then 719€ per month.There is plenty of data available in other places, for other regions, but then it is only for those who are interested in knowing facts. And are not just willing, but able to acquaint themselves with them - since it is mostly in French.Looking at another region, Gironde, this is where most of my French family lives (about 8 households). Some are in Médoc, some in Bordeaux proper, some in Bordeaux suburbs andbeyond. I think they would be more than slightly amused by the notion that there is little or no poverty in Gironde, and that people are happy with their lot, especially in the backwaters of Médoc. What depresses me personally as a French person, is to see immigrants to France who don't want to know what is going on in the country they have chosen to live in. Funnily enough, it is possible to know all the depressing facts, and to STILL be happy with one's lot, and with one's choice. Isn't that what happens in any good relationship, you accept the other person, warts and all, or do you need to idolize/worship that person, pretending they have no faults? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmelle Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Here in Dordogne, there are lots of poor people in the small villages or in the country . You don't see them ,they are reluctant to unveil their poverty . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 [quote user="5-element"]What depresses me personally as a French person, is to see immigrants to France who don't want to know what is going on in the country they have chosen to live in. Funnily enough, it is possible to know all the depressing facts, and to STILL be happy with one's lot, and with one's choice. [/quote]And it depresses me when people jump to conclusions , I have know my share of poverty in the past , going to school with holes in my shoes , never having a holiday as a child . But I have worked hard for what I have now , working 7 days a week doing 2 jobs.Do you not think immigrants coming to your country and spending huge sums of money is no small boost to the French economy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Think you missed the point Krusty.....[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 So what is the point , I am open to enlightenment ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 I read it that 5 E was depressed by people who move to France but fail to see or understand the problems around them (possibly because they live in a little bubble) Of course I could be wrong ......[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 [quote user="Russethouse"]I read it that 5 E was depressed by people who move to France but fail to see or understand the problems around them (possibly because they live in a little bubble) Of course I could be wrong ......[;-)][/quote]Doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 [quote user="Russethouse"]I read it that 5 E was depressed by people who move to France but fail to see or understand the problems around them (possibly because they live in a little bubble) Of course I could be wrong ......[;-)][/quote]Most of these, I feel, are just defensive. If they admit that France is less than perfect, that is is not all rosy bliss then it, somehow, reflects on them and their choice to move to France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Yes I admit my reply is defensive , but I just feel there is not such an overwhelming amount of poverty that some posters make out , the great majority of the French are doing very well thank you. Or it could be as Carmelle suggest`s the poor are hiding behind closed doors , hence that is why when you drive through any village you see no one ......they are all poor and hiding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odile Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 So agree, RH and Scooby - NOWHERE is perfect... so chasing around for perfection is pointless. There are many problems both in UK and France (and in 'my' Switzerland) - so best get used to it! A move to France IMHO must be a positive, going forward to pastures new decision, not a negative 'let's escape from hell into heaven' - or disappointment is on the cards.Like having another baby to mend a broken relationship - it is unlikely to succeed. A move to France will not automatically rekindle romance, repair a broken marriage, solve family problems, turn your children into angels, etc, etc, or other such miracles. if you don't expect a move to do this- you may really enjoy the experience (but then again...). Bonne chance, whatever you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 [quote user="krusty"]Yes I admit my reply is defensive , but I just feel there is not such an overwhelming amount of poverty that some posters make out , the great majority of the French are doing very well thank you.[/quote]I suppose it depends what you mean by poverty.I know families where both parents work but where their only income rely on temp agencies, where there is no security of employment and where they can find themselves without a job from one week to the next. Try bringing up a family under that sort of precarity. They subsiste, but let us not pretend they are "happy with their lot" just because they do not share their worries with every Tom, Dick and Harry.To say that "the great majority of the French are doing very well" is something people living in Neuilly can say because they can ignore what happens in the banlieues. It certainly does not mean the banlieues do not exist.Earlier this year, I spent 6 weeks driving all over the commune where I live for the census. I have seen very poor (over 70, no income, no heating and no indoor sanitation) and very rich (marble floors, several cars and holidays on sandy tropical beaches).Most people I know manage from pay check to pay check. Even those who book a holiday ask me if I can wait until the end of the month before cashing their cheque. The fact that they manage to have a cheap week away does not mean they are not struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5-element Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 [quote user="Lori"][quote user="Russethouse"]I read it that 5 E was depressed by people who move to France but fail to see or understand the problems around them (possibly because they live in a little bubble) Of course I could be wrong ......[;-)][/quote]Doubt it.[/quote]Spot on, RH and Lori.Nothing to do with how poor one might have been as a child, Krusty. I am talking about here and now, i.e France in 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 For those interested in poverty levels , here is a site with lots of figures.http://www.poverty.org.uk/l01c/index.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Do I have to keep reminding you of the people in UK who live for the next pay cheque....not you or your pals but the people are out there who have count each penny.Never been one to listien to lists of numbers...statistics..But I look around me and I see the trollies in the supermarket with goodies....queues at the fish counter and cakes flying[almost]off the shelves.The market[full of organic and wholesome goodies] always busy....strawberries sell out....people drinking coffee in large crowds at the caffees.Everyone appears to have a car...and not a wreck either.The restaurants seem to do well.....especially when they are good[some are and some are not]Maybe there is poverty here but there are no signs of it.It is an area where wine is produced....loved and respected...so everything around it which is worthy of working does work.And yes it does matter about what you did not have when you were a kid.....because I still believe you have to strive to achieve.Inheritance is not on everyones horizon.I also maintain that most people who go "back home" have not chosen the right area or they are missing relatives.I am still getting stories every day that Uk buisnesses are making losses and laying off staff.....is that a great prospect to go back to?Time to sell the maison secondaire.....for a song...great for the French people.....flooding their market with properties....lowering the value of their houses!Just finished working....Thought that I would give you food for thought...surely you will all be conjuering up more woe and reflect upon the terrible delemia of life with Mr Sarkozy and his population;stamping your feet as you waiver your omnisience!Panda....by the way you are welcome for coffee....even though we will be kept busy next week.Where will you be coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 2005 figures on rate of poverty: http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/tableau.asp?reg_id=0&ref_id=NATnon04414Table of RMI beneficairies: http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/tableau.asp?reg_id=0&ref_id=NATCCF04606Gross disposable income per region: http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/tableau.asp?reg_id=99&ref_id=CMRSOS04238 (do a quick € to £ equivalent) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 That's interesting, Krusty.But the graphs refer to those who are 60% below the median national income for each country. So it's fallacious to compare one EU country with another, as the national median incomes aren't the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braco Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 While I feel sorry for people that struggle and fail to lead a comfortable life, I have no sympathy for the ones whose problems are self inflicted. It is not uncommon for people to be paying up to a third of their income servicing exorbitant interest payments on silly purchases due to the influence of the advertisement industry, and peer pressure.I am one of only three people in a large office who bring lunch from home each day. Not only do I know that it is clean, but I probably save over a thousand pounds a year compared to the others. Add another thousand pounds a year on mobile phone costs and a dozen other things and you can soon see why some struggle and others don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 So everyone is still chatting away!I am awaiting Pandas appointement regarding our coffee and chat here.Maybe when she visits she will decide that she will, eventually retire to this region.We shall see.When we first thought of moving to France I had serious thoughts about Normandy which I love.However lovely it does not have the wine industry...which is very valuable to my buisness.Very important too are the big wedding venues in the chateaux surrounding us.Suprisingly this is a growing industry developing and bringing clients from May to our warm Octobers.I am assured that Fairytale castles are very romantic and the French are just bas enchanted as the British. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Talk about "rose tinted specs"! Jon, yours seem to be so heavily tinted Im surprised you can see through them.Just because you see people around you who appear to be well off, it doesnt mean everyone is well off.For starters, you have no idea if they are paying for their shiny cars and trolleys of shopping outright, or if it is all going on the credit cards, adding to a mountain of pre-existing debt? You dont know, so you cant make a judgement. Equally, you have no idea how many people in their nice houses are comfortable, or how many are dreading the next red letter or bailiffs knock, or how many people are making the best of things under the shadow of redundancy.Im not saying everyone is in these situation, but the simple fact is that unless you have access to everyones bank details, you are in no position to judge how wealthy they are, so your comments loose their validity.Wandering around your local organic market is obvioulsy going to mean you are mixing with more affluent people, but head out of the town centre and find a discount supermarket and see how affluent you think the customers are - Follow them to their towerblock apartment with piss-soaked entrance and graffiti all over the walls and let me know if you think they enjoy living there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 If you want to see where the poor people are try your local market on a cold, wet day in November, picking over the clothes on the second-hand stall. And no, they're not looing for designer labels. I found it quite shocking in this apparently very prosperous area.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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