krusty Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Limousin could be good for you DD , lots of cows to make your cow pie [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperatedan Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 [quote user="krusty"]Limousin could be good for you DD , lots of cows to make your cow pie [;-)][/quote] Cheers Krusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperatedan Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 [quote user="KathyF"][quote user="desperatedan"] Oh well thanks very much for all your advice. Very negative most of it! [/quote]Dan, I would rather say that it is realistic and very well-meant. No-one is trying to be nasty. [/quote]No offence taken whatsoever. I am enjoying reading the responses. I fully accept Im open to a lot of negativity given the title of my thread. Like the title says we are 'debating' the move. Its been 12 months of debating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Go for it Desperatedan - don't listen to all these sad old has-beens on gold-plated index-linked civil service/public sector pensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 [quote user="Dog"]Go for it Desperatedan - don't listen to all these sad old has-beens on gold-plated index-linked civil service/public sector pensions. [/quote]Hey Dog,Jealousy is a terribly corrosive emotion [:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Not in the least green - just a realist - who doesn't take silver from the government.Once the thieving scumbag politicians are seen for what they are the overpaid public service sector are next on the list to be seen for what they take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 [quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="Panda"] We thought we had enough cash to see us through 2 years, we soon relised we needed aorund 35k per year just to survive, the house was not mortaged. [/quote]With all due respect Panda, no mortgage and you needed 35k just to survive... I envy your lifestyle.......I think !!!!!I think your definition of survival and mine may be a just a tad different.[/quote]I should say that this is the gross figure, so should have read you need to earn 35k per year gross, from this take your cotisations, taxes, mutuelle etc. etc. which leaves you around 2k euros per month which all gets spent and I don't live the high life!Also forgot to say we have always been renovating 'something' so that is one of our money pits!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Thanks for the clarification Panda, however......I think your French neighbours may consider a nett income of 24k per year sans mortgage to be a bit more than 'survival' income. I think half that would be considered a reasonable net spending income.The comment about a 'money pit' renovation is well made, I can certainly empathise with that, but....'surviving' really implies putting renovations on hold or at least seriously reducing the outlay and extending the timescale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 I am surviving (just), renovating a building and creating apartments on half of that amount by doing exactly what Powderesal says above.Editted, No family or young children to worry about, hence no stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 [quote user="Dog"]Go for it Desperatedan - don't listen to all these sad old has-beens on gold-plated index-linked civil service/public sector pensions.[/quote]I wish.....[:(] Sure, DD can go for it - but if it all goes pearshaped because of lack of resources or planning, or unforeseen circumstances, it's not only DD who would suffer but his wife and young children. Far too many families have had to return to the UK minus all they've worked for and try to begin again and a recession isn't the best time to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 You're right, 'survive' is a strong word but it has felt like that at times!I can say though that my french neighbours here in the Alps do very well, with huge chalets and pools etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 [quote user="Dog"]Go for it Desperatedan - don't listen to all these sad old has-beens on gold-plated index-linked civil service/public sector pensions. [/quote] Oh how I wish Dog, how I wish,If you look at my bye line you will see 2 locations, one where I live and another where I work - 9 hours travelling in each direction = 18 hours a week = 1000 hours per year = 12,5% of my life. And that to finance my dream. Would I change it? No. But is it easy, gold plated or whatever? certainly not. So as others have said, DD, get the facts and if you still want to do it, good luck. But it's better to go in with eyes wide open.If you think we have spoiled a dream, then I would reply that we have not spoiled it, we have woken you from it before it became a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudding Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Well, we've been here since 2003 with 2 kids aged 13 & 9 at the time, renovating/building like mad, we are as intergrated as English people ever are.The kids are now ok, with wars wounds of the French schooling system, its not the kids settling in with French friends you should worry about but the viscious nasty and only in it for their pensions teachers that are the main concern as well as a totally inflexible system.Retraining! Please do not consider this as an option as some one has already said the educational system is not set up for people to change track later in life at all, my friends are absolutly astonished with my work history and cannot belive that yes I am fully qualified in everything that I've done, because in England you can do it.Earning a living here is very difficult, with a flooded market of English builders especially in the rural areas so picking up bits that way won't work.I would very much go along with Panda for the cost of living for a family with 2 children and that would give you a very base lifestyle and trying to earn self employed is very hard especially in Rural areas. with a low income self employed that will give you nothing much when you retire either and that is something very important to consider.I know this is negative and for that I am truly sorry, but we are at the sharp end and not supported on pensions of any description and it is very hard to raise a family like this.My advice is to rent your house out in the UK come with savings, rent here and have the adventure like that. Your Children will learn another language and be enriched by the experiance with no long term damage, you will have had the break from the UK that you need, this way you can test properly the life you think you may have here. Remember it is always a Rat race just the same rat different race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Well I guesse that you must be right Pudding as you are living with your experiences.I will reminde you all, however that I feel the same way as did when I arrived in Nov 2007....disenchanted with what London had become....and possibly much of the rest of the country.For us coming here at that moment....and it was the right moment to become divorced from the uk property market gave us a chance to buy a different life style within the industry we knew so well.The rules and regulations are so very different and a little complex but we have gained from dealing with everything correctly and have support and interest from many local people.I have to say that I employed local artisans and purchase wine from neighbours and associates who work the land.Despite lots of negative suggestions relating to disaster and doom and gloom within the tourist industry .....I still say that hard work prevails;our clients are not only holidaymakers from many countries[incl France] but people who live and work within our region and seek a night or two in a our property and enjoying our cuisine.There is a lack of musicians in our area....I mean musicians who are in a band and want to earn a living with music[especially summer]So there is an opportunity.If you area a chef and speak French[important in a prof kitchen]there are opportunities in St Emilion.....that, however can be seasonal 8....months in a year....but time to pause.There IS room to set-up buisness here....but you have to have funds....as you would, indeed in UK.I am sure that very few people living in my region are really financially rich.......but everyone seems to eat well...keep warm in winter and seem fairly contented.But France is not really a destination for those who aspire to be lazy;in thoughts or motions.I never stop thinking about today and tomorrow.The proof of the pudding...is in the eating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Who was it said if you are tired of London you are tired of life ...never mind....if it was the right move for you Jon, good. However the OP has two children - that is a different matter and a wrong choice could adversley affect their education and future prospects for life.(esp the older child) The Op should read postings by Panda and Deby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 It would be difficult to come over and rent I would imagine as the money to live on would likely be the money from the house sale after buying something cheaper here, that's how it works for most people. The rental market in the UK is not easy at the moment so that could also be tricky.On the sell uk buy France side with the UK market depressed and the exchange rate dire buying here now would not seem to be a good move although prices are low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Russethouse....!!!!Who mentioned the word tired!You need lots of money to live in London....unlelss you want to live like a hermit......or work in an office of some kind...or in parliament where you can fiddle with taxpayers money!I said "disenchanted.....I meant it...was back there to visit friends....a few weeks ago....great for shopping...great for restaurants with brand names[which I am not so excited about]But life is not about shopping and restaurants,crowds and agressive traffic jams.Did visit my two fav restaurants...and enjoyed this.However...here I am doing many different things and meeting a different type of people.You see life for me is about people.What was changing in London[and not for the good] was people.I do not rely on others but enjoy learning and being with people who have character,integrity and other interests apart from making money.Hence...perhaps why I persue the forum....passing through the fields of negaivity from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprogster Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 KathyF is right, in that in the current economic enviroment now is not the time to be thinking of giving up current employment, especially if you have a young family to support.Over the next two years unemployment throughout the EU is likely to become the worst for at least a generation and will continue to increase for some time even after the green shoots of economic recovery appear.My understanding is that when people with young families move within the UK, locating to a catchment area with good schooling is usually an important consideration. Yet I can never remember a poster with a young family on this Forum mentioning this as a factor, when considering the most suitable area of France to move to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baypond Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Hi DD, I have read all the posts too, and defer 100% to the experiences of those that actually live in France full time. I have a holiday home, and my wife and I have frequently spoken about living full time in France. However, the cliches that keep popping into my head are 'the grass is always greener' and 'same sh_t , different place'. The other words I always have a lot of affinity to were written in one of the Frenchie mags by a newsreader who had an apartment in Paris. He said that the one question friends always asked was 'when are you retiring to France'. He said that to visit regularly meant that he always had something to look forward to. The expectation on leaving London, the sitting outside a cafe in Paris, enjoying the weather and the French culture. He said if he lived in France, the expectation, novelty, and 'on holiday' feeling and relaxation would soon fade and much of the pleasure would be lost.I have friends who moved to France 2 years ago, their children were 9 and 10. They are very happy at school, and seem to be progressing very well. The children are extremely happy, bilingual, and I am especially envious that the children don't suffer the pressures of materialism that exists so much in the UK. My children took some Abercrombie & Fitch tee-shirts to the two children as birthday presents. The children liked the tee-shirts but couldnt have cared less if they had come from A&F or Carrefour. That, to me, is one of the big differences that has emerged between our too sets of children. Theirs have lost their materialism, ours have not. (ours are 10 & 12 by the way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 HiI agree with DD on the materialism front, my son has no clue about labels or the latest must have but this kind of goes hand in hand with aspiration for me. The kids here don't aspire to travel the world, to take up some weird and wonderful career, they have very limited expectations of life because that's what their parents have due to the high levels of unemployment and a really strong desire never to leave their little corner of France.I'm not looking forward to the impact of materialism on my son but I do want to fill his mind with much broader aspirations and possiblities that for me the french just don't have. When I've had a conversation with neighbours about travel they always say that France has it all you don't need ot leave France, this is true to an extent but they never visit the other areas of France!Panda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 A circus artistes on the trapize practices his skills ..pretty amazing....not everyone can dance on ropes and waver the great fear of heights!However ever circus ring has a safety net.I will certainly say giving up a great job in UK to presume that you will find work in another country[wether or not you know the language or not]is pure fantasy.If you have a property and adequate funds.....plus a plan.....plus you choose the right area[and there are places in France with a favourable progressive enviroment]....If your prospects in UK are not so hot than it would be good to concider a move.I moved at the right moment.As I have said before...for all the right reasons.My reasons.My reasons are also shared by many others who,perhaps have not made the same decisions and remain in the safety zone knowing that they will be receive"Free" medical help and a clear view of a society which operates purely....[or not] on materialistic qualities in life and lives in the shadow of its former qualities.I am not complasant .....This could be paradise.....but we are 2009 and sounds of war are everywhere.So I am contented that today my only real problem is that the birds have enjoyed all my ripe cherries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 A circus artistes on the trapize practices his skills ..pretty amazing....not everyone can dance on ropes and waver the great fear of heights!However ever circus ring has a safety net.I will certainly say giving up a great job in UK to presume that you will find work in another country[wether or not you know the language or not]is pure fantasy.If you have a property and adequate funds.....plus a plan.....plus you choose the right area[and there are places in France with a favourable progressive enviroment]....If your prospects in UK are not so hot than it would be good to concider a move.I moved at the right moment.As I have said before...for all the right reasons.My reasons.My reasons are also shared by many others who,perhaps have not made the same decisions and remain in the safety zone knowing that they will be receive"Free" medical help and a clear view of a society which operates purely....[or not] on materialistic qualities in life and lives in the shadow of its former qualities.I am not complasant .....This could be paradise.....but we are 2009 and sounds of war are everywhere.So I am contented that today my only real problem is that the birds have enjoyed all my ripe cherries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baypond Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I don't think apriration/ambition and materialism have to go hand in hand, though they usually do in the UK. I also have two older children of 21 (as well as the 10 and 12yr old), and though it is tough to follow through on our promises, we have always said to them that when they are finished with school etc, they are on their own financially. If they can't afford a flat, then they are welcome to stay at home until they have saved enough etc We started from nothing, and if they want something, they have to earn it. I know it is the right thing to do, but it really is difficult to stick to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Most of us start from nothing!Northing wrong with that.....J and I came from very humble beginings.Asperation and ambition are important ingredients in many lives....Very much so through all my life....almost every moment of it.Materialism however is not an asset in the structure of living and I feel that it is as dangerous as a virus in its own way.So very difficult to describe unless you are in tune with the land and the people of my region.They work so hard and with great passion.In return for their efforts they fill their homes with good food and laughter and then watch the day begin at 6 am.Maybe they will be able to afford repairs to the roof ....but they do not need to spend their last piece of money buying clothes just to make an impression on someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 [quote user="jon"] ...So very difficult to describe unless you are in tune with the land and the people of my region.They work so hard and with great passion.In return for their efforts they fill their homes with good food and laughter and then watch the day begin at 6 am.Maybe they will be able to afford repairs to the roof ....but they do not need to spend their last piece of money buying clothes just to make an impression on someone else.[/quote]What a lovely part of France you live in Barbara, it sounds so idyllic.You are lucky to have such a good grasp of the French language, to be able to understand as you do the people of your region. To get back to the original topic, it does go to show how important it is to make the effort to learn the language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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