We are debating on a move to France. Any advice appreciated!

[baypond]

[quote user="jon"]

Are Americans really more friendly!!!!!!Or do they appear to be?How many American friends have you got?

 

[/quote]

Jon/ JR, humble pie, I clearly took the 2nd home comments wrong way. Sorry.

On the real subject, there was a great article written a few years ago that discussed what made people happy, and whether the things that made us happy were in fact transitory or permanent. The conclusion was that material things had a very limited shelf life, and the constant pressure of topping up 'hapiness' based on material things could in fact be very stressful ie not happy. One of the examples was a survey on those people looking forward to their dream retirement in Florida, and then a re-poll a few years after retirement in Florida. Firstly, the expectaion and realisation of their dream to retire in Florida made them happy, but within a year or so it was found that the people who had retired were no happier than than those looking forward to retirement.

All this means that apart from all the other aspects of moving to France, what makes you happy is not neccessarily France itself, but self contentment/fullfilment. Material things give a transitory adrenalin hit, but what really matters is health, good friends and/or family.

[Panda]

 

I agree that it is difficult to make friends in France, I have met only one french woman with whom I had anything in common, she had travelled extensively and had been to Uni in the US, she is open minded. and a lot of fun  I'm sure if I lived in a city I would find more but in rural france the women have not travelled and many have never worked so conversations were centred around the weather, the kids and listeing to them moan about life in general.   There is no culture of going for a coffee in a resto with the girls or a girls night out, I really miss that.

Before you wax lyrical about all your friends Jon I mean real freinds, tell all your worries and secrets to friends, not how are you, weather is nice. what's that you're doing, these are mere polite nieghbours to me of which I know loads.

The americans are more friendly in my experience, I have met a few here in france whilst at Uni and I am still in touch with them.

 

[carmelle]

Americans  people are  positivise ; they don't hesitate to change their life , to leave a town and to make new friends .

In France , you must have : firstly

 A wife or a husband( as property )

Secondly  your Home ( house ) , your dog, and your family near you ( as  properties , and no share ...).

French are unable to go ahead . And they don't like the  aliens ( only with money).

Really , you can't have french friends . It's hardly impossible .

 I don't find this behaviour in America .

[baypond]

Adam Smith -  Theory of moral sentiments.

Through the whole of his life he pursues the idea of a certain artificial and elegant repose which he may never arrive at, for which he sacrifices a real tranquillity that is at all times in his power, and which, if in the extremity of old age he should at last attain to it, he will find to be in no respect preferable to that humble security and contentment which he had abandoned for it. It is then, in the last dregs of life, his body wasted with toil and disease, his mind galled and ruffled by the memory of a thousand injuries and disappointments which he imagines he has met with from the injustice of his enemies, or from the perfidy and ingratitude of his friends, that he begins at last to find that wealth and greatness are mere trinkets of frivolous utility, no more adapted for procuring ease of body or tranquillity of mind, than the tweezer-cases of the lover of toys.

I have an excellent article called 'The psychology of happiness' in PDF format. It is well worth a read by all those people looking to change their personal circumstances (such as moving home).

Please PM with an email address if you would like to read it.

Giles

 

[jon]

On the subject of friendship.Telling your friends all about your problems!Yes, of course I have been here one year and a half and these people whom I know are not really true friends yet....of course not.Did I tell you that they were.I said, perhaps that I meet lots of people because I enjoy meeting new people.However my "old friends" in UK have so many problems of their own that it is not fitting for me to offer my problems.

So we have established that Americans make true friends!Hmmm
The French do not make good friends.

The British make good friends ....perhaps

My friend...one of my best friends is French....and lives just an hour and a bit from me.She says that the British have a special type of frendship to offer and she is more British than I .....and all her nice neighbours who cook for her and buy her gifts and pet sit are little more than aquaintances.Her friends in England.....most of whom have never ...in 5 years been to visit her here are the greatest ever.Even when she goes to UK they are not free to meet her during a 5 week vacation.

Contrary....!!!!?????

[Russethouse]

 Honestly Carmelle how wrong can you be, I speak several times a week to an American friend who lives in France and who has many friends, an active  social life and is very involved in her community.  

As for Americans, impossible to generalize in such a way,  and I know quite a lot of Americans

[carmelle]

yes, you are right . The problem is , when you are free, (I want to say without tie , wrong tie of any sort), too very often , you meet one or two people who try to find near you , the strengh you have, and your  freedom too .

You try to help them and you fall .

  I see many and many people who are suffering because they don't  have the strength either to resist or to go on : the strength to give up  a way of life they don't like .

And I think that we  must necessary avoid them . 

 I try . 

 and I travel ...

[Cerise]

Panda has it right.  It is not that you can't make French friends, simply that if you live in a deeply rural area and that is not your background you may not meet many likeminded people.  I have three French ladies I would consider proper friends here, but none of them is from round here.  They are all people who have travelled, lived elsewhere, with decent educations and who can encompass the idea of friendship with someone who has a completely different background to themselves.

I have plenty of charming neighbours and acquaintances but they are never going to be real friends because however kind we don't think on the same level.  If for example I complained because my husband wasn't giving me enough help around the house, they could never understand that, as for them it is completely normal that a man wouldn't help.  My lovely neighbour even feels sorry for my husband because she has seen him pegging out washing!  Most my female neighbours think it is completely normal that they should drop their own lives to feed other adult members of their families.  I'm of the opinion that any adult human being can rustle themselves up a meal and that I wouldn't drop everything and rush home specially.  In their eyes that makes me alien and weird - so however nice they are to me they are hardly likely to be my bosom buddies because when we talk we don't share common beliefs and experiences.  They don't read so I can't discuss books, I've no interest in growing vegetables so the fact that I don't even try to grow any bothers them.  They have no desire to go anywhere and I don't care if they have been slighted by the butcher's cousin's sister who I've never met.  They never go to museums and I never go to lotto.  If they were English we'd have nothing in common and so we don't in France either.That doesn't mean they aren't nice kind people but for most of them I'd say friendship wasn't an aim as they are far too busy with their extended families.  Their 80 year old parents live for their visits, my 80+ year old parents are currently on a walking holiday in Southern Ireland and I dare say will give me a call when they get back.  Different lives!

[Renaud]

Desperatedan - A friend pointed me towards this forum when we were thinking of buying in France. I was taken aback by the weight of 'glass half empty' posts. We bought our maison secondaire anyway and have never regretted doing so.

There was even one (quite witty) guy on the forum, now departed in a cloud of acrimony, who posted that he saw it as his mission to disillusion those with rose-tinted glasses. No doubt he meant well.

Certainly France is no magical place where everything is wonderful - you have to smoke quite strong stuff to get to that place, so I hear. And certainly it is a better place to live if you don't have to work, but where isn't?

Cathy gives sound advice which is to rent before you buy. My advice is to live near a large town or a city as the rural winter is very isolating.

You will find, as I have, a ton of helpful advice on the forum - good luck!

[Braco]

Hi Krusty

 

While we visit the US every year, have many American friends, and have enjoyed every visit. The thought of living there to us is as unthinkable as attending Nuremberg rallies in the 30's.  The US is in many ways a developing country.  Out of interest which part of the US would you choose to reside in?

The only part that we would even consider would be the Boston area.

 

[carmelle]

Boston . I go to Boston .

[Braco]

One of the most European of US cities (by their standards) - we choose to reside in the original. 

[carmelle]

Where ?

[Braco]

UK, Cyprus, and soon La Belle France

[gosub]

[quote user="puzzled"]

There is a web site ( that I can't remember the address of now) where you could enter you town/ village and get fairly detailed information about the average income of the residents there and I think ages etc. Not fool proof but it may give you an indication of the socio economic background of any chosen village from which you may be able to draw some conclusions.

I think if I was ever considering a move to la France profonde I would sneek a peek.

[/quote]

Could be this ONE

[krusty]

I have not seen that much of the USA , but my choice would be Virginia , and have to be rural , I hate big cities.

It might be because I spent my life prior to France in Manchester.

[Braco]

Agree with you about big cities.

[Panda]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

 Honestly Carmelle how wrong can you be, I speak several times a week to an American friend who lives in France and who has many friends, an active  social life and is very involved in her community.  

[/quote]

Confused by this, what did Carmelle say that is stated here as being so wrong, she agreed with you that Americans, in her experience, travel and make friends easily as I read it...have I missed something?

[carmelle]

In big cities , we can  listen to  lectures, concerts   , go to see exhibitions  in the museums . 

 Boston has a very rich cultural life ;

The town is not too big and the country in the surrounding area  wonderful.

 Nothing like that in Perigueux .

 

 

[Chancer]

Carmelle, I am guessing that you are French and under 25, am I correct?

I agree with most of your sentiments and indeed felt the same way as you at that age, America appeared to be nothing but positives for me, at the age of 30 I accepted the job to run a company in Los Angeles and was in second heaven, sadly (or in retrospect not so sadly) it fell through and I was gutted.

It did however kick start me into travelling and appreciating other countries and cultures, I have chosen France for now but expect I will travel again within 5 years and probably settle somewhere else.

I agree with yours and others comments about making real friends, it is indeed very difficult to have much in common with people whose experiences and expectations are limited to a 5km radius, who dont read, have never travelled and have limited or nil aspirations.

Carmelle I think that the way you are feeling is very natural and in a way positive as it has encouraged you to travel and gain experience, it does however have the effect of making you unhappy with your present surroundings, remember that another country (we are using the USA as an example) is not necessarily better, just perhaps "anywhere but here" it is better to not make comparisons and concentrate on what you want from life and go and seek it out.

As I said, 20 years ago I used to dream of living in America, now it is the last place that I would choose, when I back-packed around the world before coming to France it was not on my chosen itinery and I preferred to spend 3 months in Latin America.

If I am right about your age, then yes, if I were in your shoes, I would want to work in America, have you considered the UK?

[carmelle]

no, because UK is too close , too " french", a too old country, too small ,  Sorry   . 

[Chancer]

No need to say sorry, à chacun son gout.

So perhaps it is more a case of "as far away from here as possible" rather than "anywhere but here".

I hope you find what you are looking for.  [:D]

[RicandJo]

Moving back towards the original post if you have a dream then chase it I say. There will always be those who try and tell you you're doing the wrong thing. Life would be pretty boring if we all sang from the same song sheet.

I came to France a little over a year ago and don't regret it for one moment. It IS a better pace of life than the UK and yes the French ARE a lot more outwardly friendly than the English. I'm fortunate that my line of work means I can work anywhere in the world without fear of language difficulty and as long as there are planes in the sky those planes will always need maintenance crews. A plane may be able to fly without pilots but it'll never be able to repair itself!

So go for it I say before it's too late.

[Stan Streason]

I'm sorry but a lot of this thread has got nothing whatsoever to do with France, it's a rural/urban split.  In France there is just a lot more rural and a lot less urban.  My in-laws from the Welsh borders in Shropshire have all the parochial attitudes that are being laid at the French.  Similarly you try and see how worldly and friendly people are in North Dakota or Alabama.

I get the impression that we all live or lived a much more urban life in the UK and when we move to France (or as in my case get a second home) we go for these out of the way rural areas that hardly even exist any more in the UK.

And as for this seeming need for true friends all over the place (whatever that means), I could not personally name more than a couple accumulated in my 50 odd years. Plenty of colleasues, current and former, plenty of golf partners, drinking mates etc etc - I certainly do not feel the need to share my problems with anyone (not even my wife of 30 years).

Back to the OP.  You have obviously been thinking about it seriously for some time.  What happens if you never do it - you may always regret not taking the chance.  Do your homework, learn as much as you can and if you still want to do it, go for it whole heartedly.  If it doesnt work out at least you will never wonder "what if?". Stay flexible and accept that a likely outcome is that you will give it up and return in a couple of years. Not as a failure but as someone who gave it a go.

I accept that my "just pull yourself together" attitude does not go down well with everyone including our HR department who keep me as far away from any of the touchy feely stuff as possible..

[jon]

Oh well...going off the tracks as we were/are.....friendship...not important to some.Vital for others.

Not discusssing problems with anyone!Not sure about that!

That really is the major season why people go back to their country of origin...missing people who are close to them.I have researched this topic