condorman Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Hi Everyone, Just wondered, im moving over soon and have converted my truck to Vegitable oil, Ive heared that theres no road tax on this when used in a car in France, unlike the uk, In the Uk, we can pop into the supermarket and get Veg oil for 44pence a litre, does anybody know, what the availability of Veg oil is like in French supermakets and what the cost is please,,,, Anybody else running on Veg ?? Once established ill be growing me own, chears all..... condor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 There is no road tax in France.This has not taken off here as a separate fuel source but it is certainly used. All of the diesel fuel sold in France is blended with 5% biodiesel, France makes it from sunflower seed to compensate for the lack of lubrication of ultra-low sulphur diesel fuel. However, one of the most obvious disadvantages of using vegetable oil as fuel is cost. Diesel fuel is still "relatively" inexpensive in this country.Can you really just fill up at Tescos Vegetable oil is generally thought to be too thick to use directly in modern diesel engine fuel injection systems. One man used raw veg oil and found that cold starts begun to deteriorate,his filter got bunged up and the injectors got coked up. So IF you are using raw veg oil your pump, injectors and engine are not long for this worldThere are however three methods of using vegetable oil : mix the vegetable oil with a lighter fuel: heat the vegetable oil before it gets to the fuel injection system or chemically “crack” the vegetable oil molecule to make it smaller. The stuff you should be using is a "vegetable oil based fuel" called biodiesel. It is processed from used heated oil. The conversion and filtering kit to do it safely, costs money, OK you can do this at home, but to do so, you may then have problems with storage. In France the Mairie and pompiers may not appreciate fuel tanks adjacent or in your property. AND even if you are allowed to do it you may have to pay duty on it In the UK the cost of making each litre of biodiesel if you are recycling waste chip shop oil is about 12p , but you have to pay Customs and Excise another 54p a litre in road fuel tax. If the same level of duty was applied in France, that would make it about the same price as diesel.You may also have a problem getting your truck registered in France as it may not get it through the French CT ( MOT ) or get a certificate of conformity from the maker as you have changed the fuel system You may also have problems if the Flicks stop you and do an emissions test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Cant see a problem with registering the car in france, its just a diesel vehicle, the fact you can run it on veg oil is by the way, you can still run on diesel .It is true that pure veg oil will clog up the pumps etc especially when cold, happened to my mate in April when temp dropped. More of a problem starting than keeping it going, once engine warmed up it was OK. The secret is to run on a 50/50 diesel veg oil mix.OK and cheap if you do it illegally.........and you dont mind the car smelling like a chip shopBob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 The government tries to collect 42cents per litre of vegetable oil used in vehicles. How it does so I don't know. There have been a few court cases for nonpayment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 You said 'truck', well if it is a commercially used vehicule, then there is road tax on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Did you see on the telly the man who was making fuel for cars out of sunflower seeds? It was on a couple of days ago. He had fitted 'something mechanical' to make it run smoothly. He was selling it for, I think, 20€ for 46 litres. (I'm sure 46 was in there somewhere)They mentioned it was illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condorman Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Hi All, Thanks fer the replies, i know all about veg oil and vehicles, i make the kits, you can run on 100% rape seed , just need to heat it to lower visosity, lucas pumps no good , bosh and copies are fine, what i was saying was not abot french road tax, we all now there isnt any for private car, but the tax on road fuel, sorry if my wording was naf, i was hoping whilst doing this reply to see all the answers below so i could reply individualy, but i can only see the last one by Alexis, so thanks to all for the info, The Chap who says there is a tax on veg oil used as road fuel in France, whair did you get the info please, i was told there is none by french bio chemistd who work in the field????as to the french Mot, big deal, why would it not pass with veg iol??? the emissions are lower so it actualy stands a much better chance of getting threw an emision test,,, any way if they dont like it, take it out, I have removable tank, 5 mins, chill out people......... thanks again, but does anybod know the answer to me question...(Hi Alexis, no sorry missed that, sound like a great deal, and to smell like a chip shop as well, cant be bad...chears)Whats the price of veg oil in France?????????? chearssss allllllllllllllll,,,,,condor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Here is an interesting link to an organisatiopn promoting the use of Sunflower Oil to replace diesel.http://vegetol.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=3They are also campaigning to get the TIPP removed . Their logic is that it is illogical to impose a Produit Petrolier Tax to vegetable oil. they of course miss the point that in reality it is a tax on road usage.At the price they quote of 70cents a litre with the tax added it makes Sunflower Oil the same roughly price as diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave&Olive Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 hi all why waste time on chip fat when you can run your diesel engine on french heating oil or fioul it`s only 56.9 @ ltre from le-clerc`s . A plastic 10ltr " jerry can" fits under the the drain tap on the heating tank been using it for 3 months now and no problems , will have to get some more though or we might be cold this winter. dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Dave and Olive, if this isn't a little joke......... they will hang you out to dry if you get caught doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Korrigan Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 I have a question...If my diesel 1.5 kangoo does 75 mpg on a long run at 85kph and I regularly get 650 miles from a tank. (Yes I drive like an old woman!)What would it do per gallon on veg oil...?I assume that different fuels have different calorific values.Any trade off in performance and economy must reflect in the price...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave&Olive Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 yes but think on the bright side ,,,,,,,, your chips wil still be warm when you get home...... dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hstraf Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 I've never heard of running my diesel car on veg oil. Where can I find out more info on this? A poster in the thread mentioned he sells the kits.. can you give me a website?Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sue-J Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 [quote]I've never heard of running my diesel car on veg oil. Where can I find out more info on this? A poster in the thread mentioned he sells the kits.. can you give me a website? Thanks![/quote]You pour it in the diesel tank in the normal way, mixes with the tank fuel. Can get thicker in colder weather. Heater kits are available. Terrific fuel, better lubricity, more power, better particulates, smells nice, eco-friendly. Do a google for more...... A lot of peeps in the Uk were caught out a couple of years ago buying Tesco rapeseed cooking oil by the trolley full - Tesco responded by limiting supplies to two bottles per person. It was about 30p a litre. I ran my brand new RAV4 on it for a while, found better power, smoother engine, and a strange smell of chips following me everywhere. The only downside seemed to be the prospect of Customs and Excise doing spot checks on the vehicle and impounding it. So I stopped.And you can make your own fuel by recycling cooking oil from food outlets. What a pleasant micro-business that could be for the impoverished ex-pats on here!The other diesel scam was marine diesel from the chandlers at 26 p a litre. Cooking oil from Tesco illegal in the UK... :-) unless you sign up with the Excise people to use the stuff in bulk and pay tax on it. Still worked out cheaper though. And veggie oil is carbon-neutral. Unlike LPG Land-Rovers... :-) sue-j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brilec Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 You can find lots of information on this subject herehttp://www.bio-power.co.uk/index.htmBy the way, Bio fuels attract 20p per litre less tax than normal fossil fuels in the UK, thus if you are an honest citizen, you will have to pay HM C&E around 30p per litre on an honesty basis, once you have registered with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumanzoku Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Isn't sunflower oil too thick ? it's much thicker than diesel. I checked the prices at the supermarket today, one was 88 cents a litre the other 89 which when deisel is 1.05 isn't really worth the potential damage to the engine/filters. Can ayone suggest a cheaper source ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Korrigan Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Any-one any idea of the calorific value of the different fuels...? No point in filling up with cheap fuel if you have to fill up more often and risk your engine.Petrol/LPG engines produce less Kw when running on gas for instance so what about Mazola...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brilec Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 According to those who know, veggie oil gives more power in a diesel engine. It also lubricates the pump better, but in too high a concentration it can be too viscous until it has been warmed a little, so can give starting problems in very cold weather.For those who want to do it properly, you have to have two tanks, a small one for normal diesel, for starting, and the veggie one for normal running, with a heat exchanger fitted. You then register (in the UK) with HM C&E and pay them the appropriate duty per litre that you use.Don't know what the system is in France, or even if there is a system.Our cheapest veggie oil is rape seed oil in the UK, currently available in Tesco at 43p/litre. (I use it in the chip pan, honestly). Sunflower oil is quite a lot more.Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 If you buy diesel in France you are running on 5% sunflower oil now, it is rumoured that this % will increase and more sunflower oil will be used to bring down the price of domestic fuel Brilec is absolutely right, to ensure you can start at all times and not wreck your fuel pump, you should have two tanls fitted, uncooked veg oil is far too thick to use for starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 [quote]Any-one any idea of the calorific value of the different fuels...? No point in filling up with cheap fuel if you have to fill up more often and risk your engine. Petrol/LPG engines produce less Kw wh...[/quote]Calorific value of rapeseed oil (most commonly used as a straight veg oil or waste veg oil fuel) is around 36 MJ/kg. This is lower than conventional diesel (around 42 MJ/kg), but the lower cal val is compensated for in the engine by the high density of veg oil - more grams per squirt.In the field of biofuels there are some disagreements between those who favour straight / waste veg oil used directly as a fuel and those who advocate chemical conversion to biodiesel. The major advantage of biodiesel is seen as its consistent quality and lack of potential problems such as poor cold properties and gum formation in engines. The major advantage of straight veg oil is the low cost. Matter of personal choice I suppose and certainly I'm not going to involve myself in the arguement.A lot of oil crops (sunflower, rapeseed) are grown around here and local farmers are taking quite an interest in developments in biofuels. Some are experimenting with “all oil” crop rotations. All over Europe there have been rumours of oil companies starting to take in interest in buying up agricultural land for oil crops – rape yields around 1200 litres per hectare and sunflowers around 950. I guess some people think this a viable proposition at current crude oil prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirpy Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 AUTO PLUS MAG. THIS WEEK HAS ARTICLE AND IT IS HARDLY WORTH THE TROUBLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condorman Posted January 2, 2006 Author Share Posted January 2, 2006 Financialy, using veg oil in France is not going to save you much, but the bigger picture, everybodys future wellbeing and the well being of the enviroment we live in, thats what makes driving on Veg oil worth while, were all to bothered about our own little lives and our wallets to care about whats happening outside our tiney world, driving on veg oil will make a dramatic benfit to our kids and there future, why not do it, its going to cost slightly less than diesel, but thats not the point, minimal effort is required for us to run on veg instead of diesel, but look at the figures, its brilliant fer the plannet, dont do it for your pocket, do it for the right reasons, the plannet, it reeeely makes sence..chears m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opalienne Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 If you live near the border you can buy in from the pumps at some German service stations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridgeman Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I'm with you condorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Condorman wrote:"minimal effort is required for us to run on veg instead of diesel, but look at the figures, its brilliant fer the plannet, dont do it for your pocket, do it for the right reasons, the plannet, it reeeely makes sence..chears " Sorry while I agree with the sentiments, this is self delusion to believe you are helping the planet. If we all changed to plant oil, how many gadzillions of hectares of land would have to be changed to sunflower, rape, linseed etc. There are already protests about the impact of these mono-culture products on wildlife - and that is just to produce oil and margerine. Add in the requirements for fuel worldwide and the numbers are crazy. If you really want to improve the planet for your children............................ WALK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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