British in France

[CountrylassAnne]

I would just like to add my final word on this topic, and that is to urge Brits (or any non-French) to be aware that it is a right to have a home in France (or any EU member country) but it's definitely a PRIVILEGE to own a 'maison secondaire'. Brits should acknowledge that just because they have the money (or access to a loan) it does not guarantee that you can buy any second property you fancy, as is mostly possible here in the UK.

Example 1

Friends of ours who have lived in the Mayenne (53) for 7 years, told us last spring that the Maire of an area on the boundary of 53 and Orne (61) has put his foot down and now refuses to allow any foreign buyers to purchase more than one house in his area- the Maire has a lot of power in France!

 

Example 2 (A true account, told to me by the Agent himself)

A British well-heeled prospective property owner, made an appointment to visit an Agence Immobilier in Basse Normandie to look thro' their books and view some houses. He viewed a handful and then went away and considered things overnight. The next day he returned to the Agence having made a decision  " I would like to buy this particular property that I saw yesterday"

Agence Immobilier " I'm very sorry sir, but we have just sold that early this morning"

Buyer "I don't care I want that one!"

Agent "I repeat I'm very sorry it is sold"

Buyer, reaching for his wallet " I don't care, how much will it cost me, I want that house!!"

Agent " I am truly sorry sir, that's not the way things work here in France, the house is sold, I suggest you search elsewhere!!"

Would this Brit be welcomed into the bosom of France with open-arms..................!!?

 

[Lbannister<P><a target=_blank href="http:www.carolynbannister.com">http:www.carolynbannister.com<A><P>]

depends where you are trying to buy in the uk, i've seen ;lots of places that say ' local occupancy restrictions apply' in estate agents in the uk, and its not always your right anywhere to own the house you set your hopes on, the sellers decision is always final. when i sold my last house  i was very careful when choosing what i thought was the right buyer, turns out it wasn't but that's another story

maybe thats a practical solution, everyone put on local occupancy restrictions, that'll stop all those 'wealthy second home buyers' i won't hold my breath.....

[Russethouse]

Of course he will be welcomed with open arms because whether we like it or not there are a host of tradespeople and services who would benefit.......

[a.foreman]

Are  the Brits having any problems in Spain as we are here  ??

[Lbannister<P><a target=_blank href="http:www.carolynbannister.com">http:www.carolynbannister.com<A><P>]

theres people all over the world having problems, only the daily mail didn't find out..

forgive me for being flippant, and us here in Bourbriac don't think we're having problems, only people who didn't see what really went on are getting worried. Have seen a copy of the article in the daily mail today and it makes my blood boil, and i quote ' 100 angry protestors', there were 20 at most and they were very friendly , offered us cider and cake, and calmly put thier point of view across, even gave us a stop speculation poster, they also had quotes from 'the mayor of Bourbriac' who we've never heard of, if our mayor finds out i should think he wouldn't like it, also there are supposed to be 700 english in Bourbriac according to them, more like 70 and thats in the whole canton not the village, they're definitely not here in the village.

rant over.......

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

It was in the telegraph as well.

[Phweephwoo]

[quote]It was in the telegragh as well.[/quote]

Telegraph ? Was it?

But seriously, enough already, I doubt we're speculators on here, so that means we're either.

• Retired Brits who sold up looking for the cheapest house possible so we could invest our gains in the bank.
• Working Brits earning a French wage and so looking for a cheap house because we can't afford more
• Parents of kids who'll be needing a house soon enough and so will want to buy an inexpensive first time buyers' property.
• Jobseeking Brits who obviously want to pay the least we can for any property we can find.

I think we can all say we appreciate cheap housing, in fact only those either developing to sell on, or selling up to go back to Blighty are really interested in maximum returns.

[Teamedup]

Only we aren't all in those catagory's either. I really do live in the other France.

 

I had a mosey on the FNAIM site and asked for a house in our dept between 30k euros and 100keuros and a cartoon ladies head came up looking confused, nothing what so ever available in that price range. Not surprised.

[Sarnia]

Hi everyone

I too was really concerned about the latest "troubles" - especially as we are looking to live near Guingamp eventually!  However, this sort of behaviour is not, as others have already said, just apparent with the French.  Guernsey was once a small backwater, selling tomatoes etc and then after the war the local Guerns started to realise that they were on to a winner and some people from out of the islands would like to buy property - and then they started to sell - and sell and sell, until now the cost of a first time buyers property (usually a 2 bedroomed flat or ex-council type terrace) is around the £250k mark.  Now of course the "REAL" Guerns are moaning because "those English" have bought up their birthrights.  The same thing is happening all over the UK  I understand - especially places like Devon, Cornwall etc.  Sorry to be blunt, but greed has an awful lot to do with this dosen't it?  If you are offered an overinflated price for a derelict ruin then you will take it!  But don't whinge later on that those nasty people have stopped the locals getting a look in.  

Personally, I hope to move to a small place in France and integrate fully in to the community.  I am not looking to join an ex-pat commune - if I wanted to live in a British town, I would go to the UK.  We are used to paying over the odds for property here, but now I know that what the French get irritated by us paying the full price, then I shall take up haggling in a big way - after all, it is only us that will benefit!

 

 

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Like TU we live in the real world and what makes any one think that people fit in one of the 4"boxes" posted above,Does the poster live in france?

[Radenac]

As an aside, if there are that many Brits in Brittany, why don't we justify our own section in the Living France forum??

[CountrylassAnne]

[quote]Hi everyone I too was really concerned about the latest "troubles" - especially as we are looking to live near Guingamp eventually! However, this sort of behaviour is not, as others have already sai...[/quote]

Sarnia, I'm with you every step of the way.

[Coco]

Very interesting thread and something that has interested/worried me for some time.  Not any existing problems, but the thought they could develop due to Brits living in enclaves and not integrating.

I have never believed that the Brits are the cause of rising prices in France but I do think they HELP it, however unaware they may be of the fact.  I know of some friends who bought a house here in Manche about 3 years ago for the equivalent of £24,000 and felt they had a bargain.  When they got talking to their Parisian "weekend" neighbours they discovered that the farmer who had sold the property felt as though he had won the lotto because he had told the FRENCH agent that he would like around £12,000 but the agent had said that she knew that foreigners would pay double that.  And they did!!

I have recently been talking to our Maire, who also works part-time for a Notaire in Saint Lo.  When I asked her if the market had slowed up at all she said that the Brits buying had eased up a bit but the property market was still extremely bouyant, mainly with Parisians.  I've also had that verified by a local agent who said that their Brit market at the moment is diabolical but that the Parisian market is booming.

I've also seen the locals beginning to get aggrevated by the fact that, not so much themselves, but their children are now struggling to be able to buy their first home.  Whether it's true or not, their perception is that it is due to the number of Brits in the area pushing up the prices.

And I strongly agree with the comments on here that integration helps to reduce these feelings of animosity.  We had always determined to integrate but in a hard-working "young" farming community that can be quite difficult; for starters you never see anyone because they're always working so hard and when they're not they have young families that they are doing things with and as we don't have kids that makes it a little harder to mix.  However, we have persevered and after 2 years of plugging away at it we're beginning to reap the rewards.  The locals are certainly beginning to open up to us a lot more and their biggest gripe about the Brits is their lack of interest in speaking French or speaking TO the French.  We are constantly told that we are included in things because we make the attempt to speak French and they are constantly encouraging my husband in telling him how much his French improves every time they meet him and consequently we have been included in several local functions that none of the other Brits in the area have been invited to .

We are currently getting loads of help from our Maire with our request to convert the integral barn into an extension to the house.  She has given us loads of tips on how to circumvent delays in getting permission and has put us in touch with an association who may well give us quite a bit of financial help to do it.  And this is due to the fact that we have a French tax return to show the association.  Now THAT really impressed our Maire and she was delighted that we asked her for recommendations of French artisans to use for the work.  During this conversation she made the cryptic comment that she knew that a lot of the other Brits in the area would not have had a tax return because they all seem to be "builders" and work on the black, for each other but that one day that may catch up on them all.  Made me pleased that we've always avoided that situation!!

I don't believe that it is a privalege to have a house in France.  I do however believe that I am very lucky and I constantly think about how we would perceive immigrants in the UK in our local community and what I would find acceptable in their behaviour and what I would not.  Then I try to live by those standards.  I may have it all wrong - but I think it's working!

[Babnik]

If you have your own section, you might be seen as 'different' and have all of us against you as well as the french!!!

(just joking!)

[Babnik]

On a more serious note, and as someone who has been a 'guest' in various countries (I'm maltese and have lived in UK/France and Germany), I think it's important to integrate wherever you go, and I always consider myself a guest. If French men wore skirts, and that's not something us Maltese men usually do, then I believe that as a guest I should wear a skirt too. A stupid example, but hopefully it makes my point. As I guest, I should abide by all the customs and traditions of the host country. If I don't like it, I can always leave. I have no problem with legal immigrants (I am one myself), but I do have a problem with those that expect to have a little part of their own country wherever they go. As a result I speak various languages (to differing degrees). I will always be Maltese, and proud of it.

[GRT17]

Gay, Sarnia, Babnik and Coco

I agree with your postings, extremely valid points from you all.

Gill

(just for the record, owner of modest, maison secondaire, French speaker and tax payer) 

[Phweephwoo]

[quote]Like TU we live in the real world and what makes any one think that people fit in one of the 4"boxes" posted above,Does the poster live in france?[/quote]

Out of interest what's your situation? I wasn't trying to be inflamatory, but exactly the opposite.

Oh, and yes I do live and work in France.

[Russethouse]

Coco, I think the truth is that you are far from typical in that you moved to France because you love it. Increasing it seems that isn't the reason for many people (although I know that many here did move for the same reason)Increasingly people seem to be escaping the Uk rather than moving to France.
People who fail to integrate or even attempt to really miss such a lot IMHO although I have to say many people talk about 'community' when they probably put zero effort into the UK community they live in, but their dreams are different !

I suspect the events of the last weekend were probably triggered by one irate purchaser, outbid in a property deal by an English speculator......

[Teamedup]

Give me strength.

Grants for doing what? There is next to nothing I believe could justify any foreigner getting a grant for.

I reckon the demos haven't even started yet. So they buy up our property cheap and then get grants!

Over 5 million people voted for J-M Le Pen last presidentials. Hardly a minority of the population who have extreme right xenophobic convictions.

[Russethouse]

Thats the thing with the EU isn't it - subjects from member states are treated equally in these matters - isn't that part of the idea ?

Also once you pay French tax etc why shouldn't you have a grant ? especially as in this case it will be tourism related, bringing people who spend money into the area......

The fact that help is given from local officials surely indicates that they at least are happy with the arrangement.

[Chris Head]

Wow what a hotchpotch!

 I suspect that it will arrive here in the Creuse in the future. I listened to a conversation between several Brits in my local cafe the other day...they were discussing the development opportunities here and were quite simply working out how to make as much money as possible out of the area. No attempt at discretion or lowering their voices. I was simply having a coffee and asking the barman how my 7 year old son could start rugby, he kept asking me what they were talking about but I didn't dare tell him.

Chris

[Paris]

Chrishead thank you for the warning - we will be back at our modest house in the Creuse for Easter - bought for 20,000F in 1992.  Last year I heard that some Brits were coming into the area looking for investment opportunities.  When we bought, we knew we would have to wait a long while to sell as no-one, certainly only a select few Brits., would buy.   Now we are seen as a development opportunity - mon dieu...

On a brighter note, I read in a recent issue of Pays du Limousin that the rise in house prices in the Limoges area, in particular the Monts d'Ambazac, is not the fault of the Brits., but the French.  Appparently young french couples now prefer to buy, rather than spend years in rented accommodation.  A Limoges immobilier is reported as saying that these young couples know exactly what they want and are quite prepared to haggle over the price.  At the other end of the scale, established professionals are buying large properties with land - looking for 'le calme' - in and around the Monts d'Ambazac north of Limoges, where there is easy access to the A20, and a quite run down to work in Limoges each day.

[JohnM]

[quote]Give me strength. Grants for doing what? There is next to nothing I believe could justify any foreigner getting a grant for. I reckon the demos haven't even started yet. So they buy up our propert...[/quote]

I was looking (still am, but can't afford it yet) to fit some solar heating and my French friends told me that I could get a grant twowards it. I "doubted" their opinion and so they telephoned the grant office to check. (My "phone French" is still ****) They came back to me full of glee (as one would when one wins an arguement) to tell me that the grant is for the building not the owner. So, in that case, EU grants are available.

 

[Coco]

[quote]Give me strength. Grants for doing what? There is next to nothing I believe could justify any foreigner getting a grant for. I reckon the demos haven't even started yet. So they buy up our propert...[/quote]

I'm sorry TU you may have lived here for over 20 years but you are NOT the expert on the WHOLE of France.  I didn't ask for a grant, I didn't expect a grant but our Maire is strongly urging me to apply for one of the grants being offered to only a small section of Manche to try and develop the area as a tourist area.  As she said, I have paid my taxes I am as entitled as any Frenchman to th grant!

[Dick Smith]

I got a grant for being connected to mains water - and I'm not even resident. I didn't ask for it, and I didn't expect it (the Maire told me there was no such thing) - it was automatically applied by the company at regional level. When I told the maire that I had got it his response was that I had got a result, good luck to me. I was pretty pleased, having saved more than E4000.