"Much better quality of life..." -defined ?

[SteveyGee]

There are numerous stories about people who live in France, visit the UK and relate as to how much happier they are. They all say they "will never go back to the UK". They say that the quality of life is so much better, citing less rush, criticism of the way in which the government run the country and finding life generally less stressful. Some of the people I have seen certainly look slimmer and a few years younger.

As a married man of 38 with a 2.5 year old supporting a very demanding career leaving home at 5.30 /6.00 am to return home at say 6.30 ish to 7, this starts to sound appealing. It would be nice to be able to have enough energy in the evenings to get off the sofa and it would be even nicer to not have to rely on weekends to recover from the week so that I can feel better and sharper 1st thing Monday morning! As for criticising the government, everyone does that .

The thought of running a gite complex and having the time and freedom to do other things certainly sounds attractive as long as it can support the family.

So what is the real appeal and experiences of ex pats living in France ? What comprises this "much better of quality of life"?. Why can it not be achieved in the UK ? Is it just the domain of retirees who have enough money to see out their years ? What is there for younger people ?

Is the grass greener or is it a state of mind ?

I await with interest !

 

 

 

 

 

[Dick Smith]

Steve, I think you need to factor in us holiday-homers in your question. I can work a hectic half-term in London and then toodle over to our place, deeply rural, quiet, fresh air and good food, recharge and then come back ready for more. This seems to me to be ideal. I don't want to live in France and try to find some way of scratching a living, working just as hard as I am now. I may spend more time in France when I retire, sure, but my friends and 'support network' are in England, and I would find it hard to be away from them for very long periods.

I would never have considered moving to France when my kids were still at home, not under any circumstances.

I have a friend who has moved to Spain. I have seen him twice in three years and I suspect that as he gets older and his health deteriorates he is getting very lonely, despite integrating well enough to play in the village band. I have a son and daughter in law in the USA and we are lucky to see them once a year. That hurts. When I get really crumbly I want my family near at hand.

[Will]

I would not subscribe to the view that there is a better quality of life in France, though many will disagree and no doubt shoot me down in flames. Life is certainly different, with different sets of frustrations. I had been told to expect a less stressful life in France, but have seen no evidence of this.

I think it is different for the retired, or so-called downshifters, but I suspect that had they stayed in Britain they would have found the hoped-for different quality of life there too, particularly if they moved to a quiet area.

[Dick Smith]

Ah, Will, there's the rub. I could sell my UK house for a lot of money, but it won't buy me a country place in easy reach, not by a factor of 3 or 4. And the vegetables would still be rubbish.

[Hoddy]

Like Dick, I'm a holiday home owner and I find that as my French improves my exasperation with the French government increases.

My children are grown up and I would not like to have put them through the French education system. This is a matter of personal preference on learning styles and some people will prefer the French way.

As a holiday home owner I adore France, my neighbours, the weather, the food, the gardening and the scenery, but I wouldn't want to be there permanently.

Hoddy

[Monika]

[quote]Like Dick, I'm a holiday home owner and I find that as my French improves my exasperation with the French government increases. My children are grown up and I would not like to have put them through t...[/quote]

Our house in France will be our holiday cottage. We will go there, take part in the village life, shop locally, go to church and then close up and go back to our roots in England and look forward to our next stay.

However I think I could see myself living in France all the time, and I would not see a problem bringing up children in France, I think their values are more old fashioned and family orientated. The English are much more tolerant and life is much freer. 

But why not have the best of both worlds?

[Russethouse]

>>Is the grass greener or is it a state of mind ?<<<

I think it is a state of mind. Depending on your job and language level jobs can be difficult. You need a several gites to earn enough to bring up a family too. Not only that several people who used to post here have complained of simply being bored.

What would happen in if you sold your house and got a less expensive one, and changed down a gear career wise in the UK ? Difficult to say as only you know your circumstances. (and didn't worry about what your friends say - I sometimes think that moving abroad has a cache that down sizing in the UK does not)

[Turnip]

As already stated - people have posted on this forum regarding being "bored." Others have run out of money trying to renovate houses in an attempt to copy those television programmes peddling dreams to the restless. Unemployment here is high. The great majority of people coming here, pre TV dream peddling, did so as retired persons prepared to live on their pensions.

Sadly, many think a gite is the answer to creating an income with the result that it seems that a position of oversupply exists whereby too many gites chase too few clients. Remember that many people not of retirement age find starting a new life in France, finding a job etc to be very difficult. The net result being, if they can afford it, to sell up and return to the UK.

[SaligoBay]

Is the grass greener or is it a state of mind ?

It depends which bits of UK grass you're comparing with which bits of French grass!

A full-time office job and a family is just as stressful in France as anywhere else.  Cadres (and others) can find themselves working very long hours, no matter what people fondly imagine about a 35-hour week, and there's not the same freedom for e.g. home-working, the whole workplace culture is very different.   Mortgage/rent to be paid, cost of living keeps rising but wages don't, life for everyday French people is not so different from the UK.

BUT if you are lucky enough not to have to work, or not to have to pay a mortgage or rent, then obviously there's a great deal less pressure.   

AND if your French isn't up to speed, most of the French news passes you by, and you can live in blissful ignorance. 

 

[Iceni]

If I were 20 years younger with my children of school age I would not be brave enough to move to France and hope to earn enough to live. I admire those of you who have/are/will in the future.

The grass on tv always appears greener but most have enough sense to realise this. Sometimes we tell ourselves that it really is lest we have to admit that we have made a BIG mistake and cannot turn back.

As to the cachet of going foreign ? I don't think so unless you and yr UK friends are that shallow.

This is FAR too serious for an autumn morning.

p.s. "AND if your French isn't up to speed, most of the French news passes you by, and you can live in blissful ignorance."

SB - posting error I think - this belongs in another thread in that other place.

John

not

 

[Val_2]

Not a better quality of life,more a different type of life. Quality for most who came here to work,bring up families etc before all the "new wealth from property" is probably lower than the lives they had previously inthe UK in real terms. I can honestly say that we personally are financially worse off(not on our uppers though) and its not through lack of work or anything like that,we work a lot harder for a lot less here and the stress is getting worse as rules change daily not just for us but for the working population in general. The plus side is that our children have had an upbringing that has enriched them culturally and academically which they would never have had in the Uk where we lived,to say nothing of the freedom they enjoy. Anyone still dreaming about existing from gîte lettings should come down to earth and realise those days have changed now along with people's tastes and choices and unless you really know what you are doing professionally in that field,it can be a nightmare not a dream.

[alencon]

The main criteria for making this decision should be money.  Everything else you can get over or find a solution/compromise and when I say everything else, I'm fairly confident that 99% of other problems/dilemas are 'do-able'.  However, without enough money to fund  your own lifestyle (ie 50 euros is a week's shopping budget to some but lunch out to others)it won't necessarily be a life improvement option.

We've been here 18 months ish with kids but our income is still from the Uk and will be for the forseeable because there is no prospect of earning enough money in France to even scrape by on (well, that's the case for us at the moment).

I don't have a problem with the education system  but maybe it's too early for me to make an informative judgement. Obviously,the children can speak French which has to be a bonus (might not get them a job in front of anyone else but it can't hurt) and the maths is far more taxing than anything they were given in the UK. 

I don't want to go back to the UK and it's not because I hated it there, quite the contrary. In fact, if we'd had pots of money we may well have bought a second home here instead of moving out full time.  It was a case of making a choice and this is where we ended up.

It's difficult to define the reasons for not wanting to return but I guess the things you think you are going to miss in the Uk before you leave become the things you don't want anymore after a while over here (even some family!).  I was pining for some beans on toast for about a year but when I finally had some (at great expense-2.16 euros!) my taste buds must have changed because I didn't like them at all anymore. On face value Tesco is better than Leclerc or Carrefour but I no longer have to wander aimlessly down the aisles wondering what to buy from the vast array of ready meals available at Tesco and ending up with the same old stuff week after week.  The French supermarkets force you to cook proper meals again and it makes life so much easier.

I'd really miss the boulangeries and the cafés, the kisses and the handshakes, the late nights drinking and eating until dawn, pretending I can't speak French so I can listen to the man at Brico speak English with his sexy French accent (still not sick of that one!!).  I could give you a list of what I miss about UK too but I don't feel I'm missing out on anything but if we left here I really would feel like I was missing out

[Teamedup]

We are in the process of moving back after 24 years in France.

We moved here for a bit of an adventure sans enfants. Our standard of living dropped radically when we got here, but adventures can be like that and we got on with life. Anyway all those years ago one of my friends told me would send me soap parcels so the british public's 'idea' of France was rather different then.

As Saligo says, for those working, then life can be long long days and often for rather poor pay. Working for yourself and I have no idea. I keep wondering how many more giter things the market can stand. My friend's son has only rented his place out one week this year down in the south west, or the south east as it is known as on this board.  So good job he wasn't trying to keep his family on it.

In general our lives have been perfectly fine. Better, don't think better is the word, just very different. However........

My regret, which will remain with me for the rest of my life is putting my kids in french education. I have said plenty about this in the past and I remain mefiante about many, not all, but many, of the posts I see on here. After all I do know how french kids do in their system.

[grahamh]

"After all I do know how french kids do in their system."

Should that not read: "I know how my (French) kids did in that part of their system they were exposed to" with all of the specific circumstances that applies thereto.

Maybe....

[Teamedup]

No, I meant I know how french kids do, in the french system.

You see I had dealings with the french education system for about 17 years. Member of various school councils for many of those years. Member of the FCPE, treasurer and then chairlady.

Also I have read lots about it too AND seen how my kids friends did, my friends kids do/did, my neighbours kids do/did and seen how full classes do. And in general have paid much attention to the whole thing.

My own kids experience was regrettable, but their experience was no worse than so many's.

ps I know about those that thrive in it too, just not as many as perhaps there should be.

pps My kids were born in France but are not french.

[Viv]

Thing is TU, I think you'd find that UK schooling is a mixed bag also

 

[Coco]

Back to the original question.  I think it's a mixture of several of the statements made so far.  It definitely depends, as SB said, on WHICH bit of the UK's grass you are comparing with which piece of French turf.  Coming from the overcrowded south east with a daily commute down the M1 into central London, to a rural part of Normandy I would definitely say that the French grass is greener. 

HOWEVER, I do not have to go out to work for someone else full-time.  That does not mean we don't have money worries.  We run a B&B and what will probably be our last guests until next Spring, are due this weekend (that's if they don't cancel due to the riots; they've already phoned once to check if it will be safe to drive through France)  That means we have to struggle through on an extremely frugal budget and watch every penny.

The work is more physical and in the summer we certainly work longer hours than we did in the UK.  But the work is also much more satisfying and 4 hours of our day isn't spent sitting in traffic jams inhaling car fumes.  I used to use an inhaler for my asthma twice a day in the UK.  In nearly three years here in France I have used it TWICE (and that's when I had the only cold I have had in that time).  So two more BIG pluses there; apparently no more asthma and one cold in nearly three years as opposed to 4 or 5 each winter!!!  We still haven't taken our form to register with a doctor into the surgery because we've never needed to go, unlike the UK when I was visiting for one reason or another at least once a month (that's about 33 fewer visits already! )

State of mind does have a lot to do with it.  What are you expecting from France?  It's not Utopia but if you have realistic expectations then you can have a wonderful life here.

Yes, money is important.  There's very little you can do without it.  But I think far too many people are moving to France because of the UK property boom and thinking they will have a much cheaper life here.  My husband and I first fell in love with France on a holiday 25 years ago, when France was certainly more expensive than the UK, so a CHEAPER lifestyle was never one of our priorities.  We just wanted to be able to afford to live in France.

What would make my life in France better?  If I had just a little more of that vital necessity - yes, money!  Then during the winter months we would be able to spend more time travelling around the country and visiting friends who live too far away (within France) for us to be able to afford to visit them regularly.  But that day will come!

What do we miss from the UK?  Well, less and less actually.  My husband misses a decent pint of Abbot Ale and we both desparately miss a decent Indian meal and going to the pub on a Friday evening.  Although part of the joy of the pub visit was knowing that it heralded the beginning of two commuter-free days, so it may not have the same impact now anyway. 

I do have to say that we are going to the UK for a five day visit at the end of this month and I really am very excited,  about as excited as I used to be about our French breaks when living in the UK.  The nice thing about it is, I know that at the end of five days I will be looking forward even more to getting back to France.

Finally, gites.  Yes the market is fairly saturated but again, if you choose well and make a good job of it then they can be a success.  We have friends here in Normandy who currently have two 3 bed gites, which are already fully booked for next August, were booked for half term just gone, have Christmas and New Year bookings, as well as Spring half term and Easter bookings.  They are in the process of renovating a third property because they have to turn away so many people and these days most of their bookings are either repeat or word of mouth.  They are managing to bring up two children and run two cars on that income, as well as several trips to the UK each year.   I also know of someone else in exactly the same region who only had theirs booked for August this year. 

[Russethouse]

>>>But the work is also much more satisfying and 4 hours of our day isn't spent sitting in traffic jams inhaling car fumes. I used to use an inhaler for my asthma twice a day in the UK. <<<

But if you had stayed where you were and got a less well paid job locally you may have cut an awful lot of that out and had more time etc. Just a thought really for the original poster, consider all the all alternatives and remember that at certain stages of our lives many of us have to work long hours...sometimes after a couple of years pressure eases.Thats certainly our experience, but as I said before only you know your details.

[Teamedup]

Ah but Viva, youngest has done three years now in the UK and it is like night and day.

[Coco]

But if you had stayed where you were and got a less well paid job locally you may have cut an awful lot of that out and had more time etc.

Neither of us did the journey for the hell of it.  If I'd taken a local job I'd have taken a drop of about £12,000 per year (absolutely NO exaggeration!!! ) and my husband a drop of about £5,000 and then we'd have been even more hard up than we are here because we couldn't have paid the mortgage!!  I'm afraid that's why I never have any sympathy for teachers who work in central London and say they can't afford houses there - most people CAN'T, that's usually why people commute!.  At least here we own our house outright and that's another pressure we no longer have.

No, as I said before, my reasons for coming were never financial, I always knew we would be "poor" in France.  We may be poor but we's 'appy   It would be an absolute disaster to both of us if for any reason we had to return to the UK.

[zeb]

Well, I'd never lived in the middle of nowhere before we can here 4 years ago. No children I'm afraid so can't comment personally on that aspect but our local plumber, who lives in the middle of the village (the only plumber in our area so has loads of work) has three children and they came from the midlands just after us. They love it, the kids, between 8 and 13yrs now, love it and are doing well at school. One of them runs for the department, they all cycle (parents too, with all the lycra - very serious in this area), and they have so much space, freedom and are safe.

We work, we have to and the summer months (from March to October) are pretty manic. But driving across the countryside to my jobs is a joy - I couldn't go back to an office.

It's interesting that several responses are from folks who don't actually live in France full-time. From what we've seen, and plenty of Brits, Dutch, Belgiums and Parisiens have holiday homes around here, they come in holiday mode of course, and why not! Either working like hell renovating or spending all their time sitting in the garden drinking wine in the sunshine. Hardly real life when you don't actually have to earn your crust here, contribute to the system, get embroiled in the beaurocracy or spend all your savings far quicker than you ever imagined and then have to scrape a living like many of do, usually relying on other Brits.

We had had thoughts of moving on, but to a different region of France. But, for now, we are happy although I did have a bit of a hiccup in the Weatherspoon's bar at Stanstead, sipping my Flowers, and wondering what on earth I was going to do for the winter. I've solved that one now so no problems - but - ask me again in March!

Think very carefully about how you are going to manage when the money runs out (and make sure you come with enough French to get by and capital to last at least two years).

Good luck.

[Deimos]

I moved to France a couple of years ago and my life has improved dramatically. I am not particularly wealthy but for me living in France is a lot cheaper than in the UK. This may be related to my lifestyle in France rather than the cost of a loaf of bread.

However, everybody’s circumstances are different and what works for one will not necessarily work for another. For me, a couple of years ago it was the right decision (though I did still have my doubts as I went through the move process). Of course there are good times and bad times. I will possibly move on to another country at some point (maybe back to the UK), who knows.

People can give you their own experiences but remember their circumstances are different to yours. For me, being single and without children I could take a risk that is maybe not appropriate to people in different circumstances.

How well others get on may not indicate who well you will. Some people love it, others hate it and many in between. If you are considering moving, think about what you will do and research how easy it is to do (e.g. income and difficulties running a gite) on a factual basis. Just because others did not take to it does not mean you will not and vice versa.

Ian

[Turnip]

Consider renting out your property in the UK  and rent a property in France for a year to see if France ( or anywhere else) suits you