woolybanana Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Then there are the nutters beyond description:http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/3213251/onward-christian-zionists.thtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-cat Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 [quote user="Cat"]As said before, if intelligent, reasonable people on the forum are unable to talk about the situation in Gaza without it turning into a bunfight, what hope is there for settling the conflict out in the real world?If anyone would like to do something a little more constructive, there are two groups on Facebook that are campaigning...Pro Palestine Pro Israel[/quote]So who do you vote for : Bianca Gaza; Gaza Baldwin ...?[8-)]Mr Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 [quote user="woolybanana"]Then there are the nutters beyond description:http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/3213251/onward-christian-zionists.thtml[/quote]Now that is scary..........................[:-))]Stop the world, I want to get off..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 As I have posted in the past Isreal kicked off the whole thing by its terrorism in 1946 against the British and bombed and murdered its way into existance So they taught the Palistinians that if you want to get your way ..bombs and bullets are what you need ...You reap what you sow in life ..I believe ..As for the presenyt situation White phosforus is a chemical weapon ...we went to war to rid Sadam of such weapons ...Shooting fish in a barrel as far as Gaza is concered comes to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 true enough nutters, on both sides; but why is nobody mentioning that the excuse for this conflict could not have arisen were it not for Irans covert support through Egypt for Hamas and the greater implications of that? Irans Hamas Strategy Khomeini's children are firm believers in hard power, covert action, duplicity and persistence. With Gaza and Egypt conceivably within Tehran's grasp, the clerical regime will be patient and try to keep Gaza boiling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Could we use the phrase "Gaza Ghetto", it rhymes so well with "Warsaw Ghetto"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegwini Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 WoolyDo read up on what happened to the Warsaw Ghetto - you cannot compare the two. Sadly your prejudices are showing again.Tegwini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 A group of people were forcibly walled into a closed "place" and then their lives made progressively less worth living. Then, after they had been more or less wiped out and dehumanized, we had January 18, 1943 and the consequences. Hmmmmmmmmmmm too close for comfort.The word 'prejudice' for what is happening to my people and distant members of the family is hardly appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-cat Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Thanks Banana for the link to the Spectator website and this much more relevant article :http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/3213256/moderate-arab-states-need-israel-to-succeed.thtmlMr Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegwini Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Huge differences WoolyWarsaw ghetto Jews had not been attacking the N*azis - no significant weapons, certainly no rockets eg Qassams supplied by nasty states elsewhere stating often that you should be destroyed.N*asi intention was genocide, and they managed to kill millions massively decreasing the number of Jews in Europe.Israel's intention is self defence, and the number of Palestians, and otherArabs that surround them has increased massively over the past few decades. If Israel was planning genocide they are clearly not very good at it. Ultimately, for Israel it is a matter of survival. They want peace, something the Arabs and other neighbouring states do not want. I shall say no more on this. I have no axe to grind as an outsider to either side, but having studied (modern) history to MA level do try to avoid prejudice, but sometimes find it hard to read some posts which are written with massive bias and obvious hatred for Israel and Jewish people.Tegwini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 [quote user="tegwini"]I shall say no more on this. I have no axe to grind as an outsider to either side, but having studied (modern) history to MA level do try to avoid prejudice, but sometimes find it hard to read some posts which are written with massive bias and obvious hatred for Israel and Jewish people.Tegwini[/quote]I certainly have no bias, but I am struggling with the shooting, at close range, yesterday of an old woman (in the head) and a young girl (in the thigh) by a israeli tank machine gun when they were leaving a building under a white flag having been asked to leave by the israelis.This is not propaganda and has been verified by independant sources.Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 What would you do if your neighbour started to throw rocks over the fence at you. Would you stand still and let the rocks do their damage or would you hit your neighbour with a large heavy rock and break the neighbours arms to prevent them throwing rocks at you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 [quote user="JMB"]What would you do if your neighbour started to throw rocks over the fence at you. Would you stand still and let the rocks do their damage or would you hit your neighbour with a large heavy rock and break the neighbours arms to prevent them throwing rocks at you? [/quote]I can't quite believe you just said that JMB [:'(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 [quote user="JMB"]What would you do if your neighbour started to throw rocks over the fence at you. Would you stand still and let the rocks do their damage or would you hit your neighbour with a large heavy rock and break the neighbours arms to prevent them throwing rocks at you? [/quote][:@]I'd talk to him, if that didn't work I would go to a third party to settle dispute -JMB, what would YOU do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex H Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 [quote user="Russethouse"]I'd talk to him, if that didn't work I would go to a third party to settle dispute [/quote]Has that not been done already - more than a few times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Indeed TP, but to go back to the stone throwing neighbours scenario, why should presumably innocent civilians bearing white flags be shot, what kind of rocks had they thrown?http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7828536.stmObviously it's difficult to verify the accuracy of these claims as Israel continues to deny access to Gaza for international journalists and human rights monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I tried to remain silent because this is a very difficult thread.But I think both the Israelis and the Palestinians have a right over that land .. But now it is too late to divide it. To much hatred has sprung, too many generations brought up in hate.Gaza is so small , ( it can't be a country in itself for the Palestinians), people there grow up knowing they have no real future,; they are second rate citizens , yes, I believe Gaza is a ghetto.I'm not saying I support violence, ( no way) , but I sort of understand they consider intifadas as an act of resistance.Was the French resistance terrorism?The use of this word sometimes makes me ill at ease. Unfortunately, and I hate to say so, I think there is no solution to this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 [quote user="Tandem_Pilot"][quote user="Russethouse"]I'd talk to him, if that didn't work I would go to a third party to settle dispute [/quote]Has that not been done already - more than a few times?[/quote]Keep talking - nothing is worth this....[:(][:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Wise words, Frenchie, and I do agree with all that you have said.The situation is too complex for comment in a few sentences.Whatever the eventual solution (and you are right, there may not be a mutually acceptable one), the violence has to stop. It achieves nothing other than death and suffering on both sides.The world watches in horror and, whatever the efforts of others, the protagonists are the only people who can resolve matters. They need to come to their senses; and pronto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Bearing in mind that these claims have not been verified and to continue with the scenarioSeveral people are lobbing rocks from your neighbours garden into your garden damaging your house and narrowly missing your dog who could have been killed by a large rock.You cannot use your garden for fear of being injured. You try speaking to them but are told to f##k off.You go on a forum and ask what to do.Go to the Mairie ,they are duty bound to solve the problem say most of the forum membersSome of the forum members say go and talk ,invite them round for a drink or a cup of tea.You try that but are told by them that you are foreigners and you should go back to where you came from .putting up house prices and their children cannot afford houses .They continue lobbing rocks.Some of the forum members tell you to lob rocks back at them ,go round to their house with several of your mates and sort them out.You ,having failed with the cup of tea go to the Mairie who promises to go and talk to the neighbours but does point out that you are English so can expect some resentment.Some time later the rocks are still being hurled ,but you notice that the lorries delivering the rocks are gaining access via your private lane over which your neighbours do have a right of way .You decide, being a reasonable person and not wishing to go round with your mates and sort them out, decide to block off your private lane so that your neighbours cannot get rocks delivered.In the meantime the Maire reports back and says that all your neighbours want is for you to leave your house and then they will stop lobbing stones.He also mentions that the blocking of your road is illegal because your neighbours have a right of way and he insists that you remove the blockage.By this time you are confused, it appears that the authorities are casting you as being totally in the wrong.You discover that your neighbours have managed to get round your blockade by persuading their French neighbours to allow them to cross their land to gain access to their property.They tell them it is to bring home their shopping but you keep watch and realise that they are smuggling in large boulders disguised as Bayonne ham This continues for several months with the situation not getting any better.The commune elections come along and your neighbour and several of his family are elected onto the council and then your neighbour(Front National) is elected Mayor.The situation then gets worse, with a constant barrage night and day of rocks, with huge posters erected saying English out and a campaign of harassment mounted against you by the Mayor and his family.Eventually you decide that enough is enough and along with a large number of friends go next door and beat the sh##e out of your neighbours and tell them that there is more to come if they do not stop.Your neighbours complain to the gendarmes because you have mistakenly beaten up several people who were allegedly at your neighbours house purely by chance and who when interviewed said that they did not really like the Maire but he had invited them round for a party and they didn't like to refuse.So you go back onto the forum and update the members and ask for advice.What you get is a slagging off for attacking your neighbours and lots of the pink fluffies saying Oh dear my heart goes out to those poor people and other such banalities. +And so it continues. Perhaps one day the English person and his neighbour will be able to talk to one another but in the meantime each insist they are only defending themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 But what you don't do is demolish your neighbours house, or that of the mediator or the local hospital...(latest news report) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7828536.stmOf course there are some who would probably need to stick their fingers in the wounds before believing that this happened.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 [quote user="Russethouse"]But what you don't do is demolish your neighbours house, or that of the mediator or the local hospital...(latest news report)[/quote]One problem RH, is that the non-military 'general' public are conditioned, by films and video games to believe that any bullet, shell or bomb fired or dropped by any modern military force is totally, 100% accurate, and land / hits where it was intended.This conception is total Bulls**t.You may not be aiming at your neighbours house etc but accidents do really happen. No modern 'civilised' army is EVER going to target a hospital, not EVER EVER EVER. But hospitals get hit, we know they do, they know they do. The Military (any military) know damn well that bad PR is not a winning strategy and they also know that there is a risk of hitting civilian targets. Its a balancing act. risk vs reward. Get it wrong and civilians die. Get it right and there is no BAD pr (and your career is safe)I hold no brief for the Israelis, nor for the Palestinians. In fact, it is a matter of record that I believe the Israeli 'Attitude' to the rest of the Arab nations is wrong. I would however suggest that there are rights and wrongs on both sides but I dont have any answers. If I did I would be a peace negociator, but I do know (to some extent) how the Arab world thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 [quote user="Boiling a frog"]Bearing in mind that these claims have not been verified and to continue with the scenarioSeveral people are lobbing rocks from your neighbours garden into your garden damaging your house and narrowly missing your dog who could have been killed by a large rock.You cannot use your garden for fear of being injured......+And so it continues. Perhaps one day the English person and his neighbour will be able to talk to one another but in the meantime each insist they are only defending themselves. [/quote]Seems to miss the point that you hadn't lived in the house for long...you squatted and threw the previous residents (your neighbour's entire family) out of the house onto the streets, despite the fact they had lived in that house for generations. Then you tried to do the same with your neighbour - so you could have a bigger garden. That's why your neighbour started throwing stones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 [quote user="Bugbear"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7828536.stmOf course there are some who would probably need to stick their fingers in the wounds before believing that this happened..[/quote] Did you read the full report and see this bitIsrael is denying access to Gaza for international journalists and human rights monitors, so it is not possible to verify the accounts. B'tselem said it had been unable to corroborate the testimony it had received, but felt it should be made public. Journalists and B'tselem are unable to verify that it happened but Bugbear obviously has first hand knowledge of these events Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now