Gardian Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I've been amazed that no thread has been posted on the subject. I suspect that we're all tip-toing around it. Early on, one man's terrorist, another man's freedom fighter.Undoubtedly though, a man who showed humanity post-captivity that few, if any of us, could aspire to.Its being a bit overdone out there just now though, isn't it? I suspect that he'd disapprove of all the fuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I don't know so much, Gardian. Sometimes the "fuss" is needed to remind people what it was all about.Did you hear Obama's speech?He, too, I believe, is a man that history will judge rather more admiringly than he is at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Or, perhaps, someone will come forward again and dismiss the documentation of his contribution as "emetic, soap-operatic twaddle", as was recently the case on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneySuckleDreams Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I for one think it's too soon to judge the man.I certainly think he had a big part to play in changing South Africa. De Klerk shared the noble peace price with him and I think he, as well as Bothas changing views in the last days of office gave Mandela a platform that he and South Africa built on. However, there are other views he held that leave me in two minds. He was against the IRA decommissioning for one. I don't think it had any real bearing on the eventual outcome to the peace agreement that was forged, but I can only think that he could have much more positive impact in the matter if he had wanted to.I suppose you have to admire the man for keeping to his principles. He never gave up the idea of rejecting violence as a political means and refused all conditional offers for his release. In that matter I guess he should be applauded to sticking to his guns (no pun intended).The obit in the Guardian is a good read.Invictus is a good watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Possibly because there is so much media coverage at the moment (most of BBC 2 airtime today) there is not much else to say. Definitely a very great man but to be honest I am a bit 'Mandelaed' out now. It is not that this sad event was not predicted, I am amazed with all the hardship he has been through (prison etc) he lived to the age he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Whatever he did as a young man he is rightly honoured for bringing an end to the apartheid era without the bloodbath that was so widely forecast and feared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 It may be quite some time before the facts of just how much Mandela was personally responsible for,comes to light where the creation of the rainbow nation is concerned .Jo Slovo his Jewish communist friend I think was a very big driving force within the ANC. He may or may not have been a high ranking officer in the KJB as some claimed . I don't think the KGB published their own Who's Who when it comes to those on the payroll . But Slovo would I believe along with Mandela who it was claimed at the time was a secret member of the communist party have been taking instruction from Moscow. As were the Communist party throughout Europe at the time .What influence did they have on decisions that were made ? How were they countered by the West ? There must be a lot of information still to come to light as to who actually did what and when before Mandela was released to ensure the peaceful path , that would result in the change over, from white minority to black majority rule ..Was it all down to Mandela as people tend to believe today ?I think there is a lot more to be discovered about this man before the rush to make Mandela a Saint starts . Now he has passed on after time a lot we did not know about him may just come to light . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I'm not sure quite how Joe Slovo is relevant to Mandela's death, although he was certainly relevant to parts of his life, particularly in shaping some of the legislation which enabled Mandela's release and the transition of South Africa to a freely elected government, As Slovo left South Africa in 1963 and remained in exile till 1990, dying in 95, I guess any influence he did have was pretty much hands-off.Interesting there seem to be quite a number of people anxious to establish that Mandela had feet of clay. I would rush to make him a saint, personally...if I believed that making anyone a saint was either relevant or necessary.Mandela himself has often been quoted (indeed, Obama used that same quote in his eulogy) as saying that he was no saint, just a man with faults who made mistakes. It's up to the individual, of course, to make up their own mind as to Mandela's place in history. As a reluctant visitor to South Africa under apartheid, and as someone married to a person born in that country, mine is already made up. And however much muck-raking may begin, I will not change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lehaut Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Wherever he is I hope he is having as big a laugh as we are at the SA Authorities who left the man on the stage next to all those world leaders doing sign language for the deaf!We thought he was particularly gifted signing in all those languages, turns out he was just waving his hand about as he thought fit.No idea who he was but he has used up mine and a few other peoples 15 minute of fame!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 The BBC coverage is just relentless. I am in an area where last weeks risk of flooding was at red level and whilst we did not get flooded two miles up the coast they did.The day after the highest risk I was in a builders merchant and a customer was explaining to staff in the finest Anglo-Saxon how we wanted to learn of the current situation from the BBC News TV channel and all they had was about Mandela - people died in the floods.The BBC Head of News later tried to justify the coverage and lack of coverage of flood risk areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekJ Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Yes, I agree. The BBC went totally OTT... They seem to have no sense of balance and take the coverage to the level where I almost started to feel resentment against Mandela. Whilst I feel he was a controversial figure, overall I think he was a force for good.... however, he was not the second coming.This was a 95 year old man who died of natural causes. He wasn't assassinated, his death was widely expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I agree that the BBC coverage was completely over the top. I went to bed thinking about the people on the east coast of the UK and hoping they wouldn't be too badly affected. They hardly got a look-in.It's not as though the quality of the output was universally good either. Some of it appeared to be from people who had seen him walking on the other side of the street twenty years ago; quite a bit of the rest was from politicians trying to pretend they knew him better than they really did.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I guess the cynical answer is the longer he lived the more they had invested in premade obituary footage which no doubt had been brought up to datye so many times that they probably could have screened it for the next month.When he died they either showed it straight away or never at all, they didnt give a rats for whatever else might have been happening in the world, a good day to bury a news story didnt a politician once say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I wasn't talking about the TV. It's Radio 4 that wakes me up each morning.It wasn't just the floods that disappeared, the Autumn Statement disappeared from the news too.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 I couldn't agree more with PaulT, Derek J and Hoddy's posts.I too had turned on the News at 23.00 that evening to see what havoc the floods might have brought about. I gave up after an hour.The BBC have sent out 'George', John Humphries, Clive Myrie and quite possibly others: the onsite journalists were perfectly capable of dealing with the coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 When is it going to end?Just turned the TV on to watch the BBC2 Gardening prog ..................... only to find that its been binned for 'Nelson Mandela Lying in State'For goodness sake, this is complete madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneySuckleDreams Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 and someone was complaining on this forum about the Dr Who 50th anniversary coverage. Film 4 have had no Mandela coverage, or BBC4 extra for that matter as I've been listening to reruns of the Goons and Hancock's Half Hour. I wouldn't put it past the BBC to vote Mandela as sports personality of the year the way it's going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Well, it's certainly no worse than when Thatcher died, and frankly her accomplishments (for the want of a better word) certainly didn't warrant the airtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekJ Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 [quote user="HoneySuckleDreams"] I wouldn't put it past the BBC to vote Mandela as sports personality of the year the way it's going[/quote]I don't think so... he's earmarked to win Strictly Come Dancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneySuckleDreams Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Probably ITV will get in on the act and he will win Ex-Factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 [quote user="Gardian"]I couldn't agree more with PaulT, Derek J and Hoddy's posts.I too had turned on the News at 23.00 that evening to see what havoc the floods might have brought about. I gave up after an hour.The BBC have sent out 'George', John Humphries, Clive Myrie and quite possibly others: the onsite journalists were perfectly capable of dealing with the coverage. [/quote]I read the BBC shipped out a staff of 150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Norman, I understand that you trained the guy that did the signing for the blind. Seems about right!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 [quote user="woolybanana"]Norman, I understand that you trained the guy that did the signing for the blind. Seems about right!!![/quote]The guy has given an interview.... It appears he became ill and confused when he saw angels appearing in the stadium ... There is a lot Norman has been very good at but arranging divine intervention by angels I think is a bit beyond even his capabilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Perhaps he supplied the little pink pills or the high class weed which enabled the guy to see stars and the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 [quote user="woolybanana"]Norman, I understand that you trained the guy that did the signing for the blind. Seems about right!!![/quote]Clearly, not everyone was blind. They saw what a mess he was making. I think the deaf had the biggest problem.[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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