European Nightmare

[Will]

Has anybody else been watching this BBC midday series?

The downside is an incredibly irritating presenter, disjointed format and totally inappropriate background music. However, the positive side is that it does actually provide a sensible alternative to the other living overseas programmes, at least where France and Spain are concerned. We've had disaster stories before, which are really nothing more than the worst sort of consumerism with the so-called 'victims' blaming everybody else rather than their own ignorance and lack of basic research. But this one seems to give a far more realistic view. It gives the message that other countries aren't just a sunnier and cheaper alternative to England, those moving do have to be aware of different systems, values, and above all language.

Today's (still on as I write this) is great, although it's in Spain rather than last week's France. We actualy saw a family who moved there on a whim, and, horror of horrors, found they didn't all like it and some would prefer to be at home. The move didn't solve any of the problems that they rather naively hoped it would - quote "I've still got the same life in Spain that I had in Essex, except it's all in a foreign language".

That may sound blindingly obvious, but I've never heard an admission like that before on a lifestyle TV prog.

[Musicmonkey<ADDRESS><STRONG>Musicmonkey<STRONG><ADDRESS>]

Yes Will, I managed to catch this last week and again this week.

It is good to see the other side of the coin for once.  The programme does irritate me in its format as it repeats over and over each situation as if it assumes you weren't listening the first time...or second...etc.  However, the important thing is that it will give a more balanced and realistic view of buying abroad.

[Liz]

I'm a sucker for any house buying programmes so I have seen some of these and made a point of watching last weeks two programmes in France. I agree about the presenter, I've seen him on other things and he really is irritating.

What I couldn't understand about the couple who paid the deposit on a wannabee gite and then discovered that the grey water ran down the street outside was why they didn't find out how much it would cost to put matters right I can't imagine it would have been that expensive. Seriously strapped for cash I suppose.

I loved the couple who had started to throw away the unwanted contents of the house they had bought. I am sure I have seen advice on this Forum to say that when you buy a property in France the contents, if left behind, are yours. The exception to the rule being, as in this case, when it is a repossession.

A useful programme if only we learned from other people's mistakes!

Liz (29)

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

thank you, made me laugh, it may sound blindingly obvious but isn't that what makes it a brilliant quote?

[Celtic Voyager]

Yes, we have also caught this programme and agree that they need to tighten up the format, but hopefully the message gets across...

 For too long now programmes have portrayed an inaccurate impression of the process of moving to foreign climes. Far better to encourage more in-depth  research before you jump  in the deep end.. lock, stock and barrel to follow that dream.

[Weedon]

I watched it when they showed the couple who had their roof timbers half-inched, or should that now be 12mm, I am sure I saw a posting on that problem some months ago on this forum and I was a bit sceptical at the time but on the programme they showed all of the roof trusses sawn off and the place open to the elements.

weedon

[Dog]

I did catch one of these where Porsche driving hiflier paid builder 10,000 to fix her roof. When she hadn't heard much and returned three months later to the property she fought her way through the beer bottles to find the said man rather the worse for wear after drinking all her money away..

[Quillan]

Having watched quite a few now, they fit in with my typical Franch lunch break of two hours, I have been a bit taken aback by some of the big mistakes people appear to make.

There seems to be a thing about subsidence in Spain with these new developments, most of the early programs on Spain seemed to show a lot of houses falling apart. It would be reasonable to think that anything built on the side of a slope needs serious thinking about and there seems to be a big question mark over the skill sets of Spainish buiders. Does Pedro translate to 'Jerry' I wonder when it comes to building in Spain.

Some of the things are down to gross stupidity on behalf of the buyer, the lady who didn't 'get round' to insuring her house which burnt down after three or four days of her moving in through a forest fire. The family from Essex, I guess you could see what was coming when the first shots were of them fitting sun visors to their dogs and the fact they only had the pool for the dogs to swim in to keep them cool. Wonder what that smelt like after a few weeks?

The couple with a French Gite and the Gray water. I can sort of see how they didn't know but then having bought their first home there surely they would have known that they did not stand a chance of getting their deposit back let alone get the money for the decorting they had already done.

I did feel sympathy for a few, I never new about the reposession law in France and I have been here for two years. The couple in Spain who were loosing 38% of their ground to a 'urbanisation' and have to pay for the road to be tarmaced as well, bloody cheek.

It only goes to show that you really do have to do as much 'homework' as possible before you make these moves ad you really have to have some basic language skills as well.

There were a couple of cases of Brits being ripped off by Brits, I have seen this before, even down here. There are a few 'builders' and I use the word very loosly, who take a overnight ferry from the UK as it appears to give them longer to study the Readers Diagest Book of DIY to change from a car mechanic to a master builder if you know what I mean. They seem to be very good at 'ripping off' their fellow Brits. Fortunatly they are few and far between and there are some very good ex pat builders, legally registered, but when you are a novice how do you know how to spot them. Perhaps thats the good thing about forums such as ours where there is loads of information on ensuring you get a registered builder. I know that does not garantee he/she is going to be good but at least you can get help if it goes wrong.

[Will]

"Perhaps thats the good thing about forums such as ours where there is loads of information on ensuring you get a registered builder. I know that does not garantee he/she is going to be good but at least you can get help if it goes wrong."

That's an interesting point, Chris. I know it's straying a bit from the original discussion, but in reality, from whom can one get help?

I doubt if the local Chambre de Metiers would be much help, after all it's the chambre that registers the tradesmen so will be unlikely to admit to giving an incompetent crook a licence to trade. Work is supposed to be backed by a 10-year insurance guarantee, but even if the cowboys with Siret numbers have such insurance how many people know that there has to be a signed and agreed detailed devis (quote) and matching facture (invoice) which clearly states what work was agreed, and what was done and paid for, as proof for the insurer? And of course a tradesman is only insured for work he is registered to carry out (the classic instance of a gardener taking on roof repairs). It could be argued that sites like this, and those like Artisan Anglais, are actually giving people a false sense of security by thinking that they are safe if using a registered tradesman. Most are perfectly straightforward, of course, but there are several rogues, and not exclusively British either.

I suppose the only real course of action is a plaint to the gendarmes? A bit drastic, and could well involve the complainer in quite a bit of bureaucracy and aggravation themselves?

It would be interesting to hear from any forum members who have successfully complained about rogue tradesmen.

[Val_2]

Will, some new friends who became clients too because of what we discovered for them are currently using their house insurers here to go after one of these such rogues who carried out work for which he was not registered or had any competance in and did not issue any proper paperwork except a scribbled note from a supermarket pad. With luck he will be taken to court,the tax people,URSSAF and the rest will also get their claws into him and hopefully he won't prey on gullible brits again who through no fault of their own have ended up with chaos. Apparently our friends will have the work re-done paid for by their insurers but the cost will be borne by the rogue or his deçennale insurers if he has a policy which looks very unlikely. I'm waiting to see what the eventual outcome will be as I hope it will serve as a lesson to those ripping off people and getting away with it.

Regarding today's programme which was set in Spain, I really cannot see anything which dosn't happen in the UK,just the setting is in another country and the bureaucracy and language are different.I don't feel sorry for the"victims" as they seem to have been living in cloud cuckoo land especially the couple who lost the house because the agents were crooked - didn't alarm bells ring as soon as the key didn't fit the first time and would you leave a newly aquired property until the next day to vist? I don't think so! None of it is any different to all those who suffered in the floods in the UK two winters ago, the inhabitants of Boscastle and those in asbestos-ridden high rise flats.

[SaligoBay]

Quillan said:  be a big question mark over the skill sets of Spainish buiders. Does Pedro translate to 'Jerry' I wonder when it comes to building in Spain.

Don't know, but they certainly look like it!  Driving through Spain, you see all these lovely old buildings, castles, churches, etc, with dreadful Communist-style appartment blocks all over the place.   Absolutely nothing "traditional" about them at all.  Maybe it's just modern Spanish taste, goes with the noisy scooters.

[Quillan]

Watching the Spanish bits of this series it seems that most of the problems revolve around subsidance and heavy rain. Not being normally interested in Spain could somebody tell us if there were especially heavy rains and floods within the last twelve months and thats what has caused the problems for so many?

As somebody mentioned Boscastle the angle I was coming from was has the same happened in Spain and we never heard about it if you see what I mean or is it just badly designed and built houses?

[Iceni]

The things that I don't understand is why so many people are not insured for flooding - when they are able to be. I heard someone on the UK radio last year say that they could not afford insurance - so the gov. (ie US) were going to pay for their losses. If I was burgled or had a fire and was not insured I would not get any money to sort me out. I am talking about no buildings and or contents insurance.

One of the reasons we did not move to Spain was the problems with home ownership, it was a decision I am really glad we made.

[Dave&Olive]

I have been watching this series intensely the last 3 days mainly because they have been in charente.

       Why do people trust english builders so much , today yes he put the walls up with 6" screws it fell down in the night but gave him another chance, then he wanted to do the floor asked my brother he said it would fall down if he did it like that so kept my eye on him and paid him €6000 to fix the roof but it leaked when it rained so I *%^$ him off.

           Termites eating the house, swimming pools that let water in,roof blown off.

           But not one gave up the life to come back to the UK ripped off broke no income but not one came back that in it self must say something.

just hope it dose not happen to us Dave Olives in bed

[Miki]

  But not one gave up the life to come back to the UK ripped off broke no income but not one came back that in it self must say something.

Tell you what it say's Dave, it say's they haven't got the money any more to be able to go back.

I and I suspect others, have seen this happen so often, not just in circumstances as unfortunate as that but in general. Once the money held in reserve runs out and no prospect of a job or the gîtes don't pan out to figures worked out before hand, then the reality of going back kicks in but, with out enough money to be able to get something suitable in the UK, terrible scenario..

 

[Dave&Olive]

Hi miki

              It seems there must be some real naive people out there then . If plan a fails it`s plan b if plan b fails then plan c mind you b&c have changed places thanks to this forum , then if all fails back with tail between our legs with our pets (passports of course) but at least we give it our best shot .

           Better to have tried and lost than never have tried at all

                      Dave Olives in bed....drunk,  hungry 3 cats broke cold overworked.............

[Jongleur]

I can confirm that the house with the missing roof near Cognac, Charente is indeed the one that was posted about on this forum.

This was not a problem of using unregistered people, this was done by one of the largest, French, building enterprises in this part of the Charente.

A certain amount of the problem was due to circumstance, eg the manager of the roofing division being due to leave the week after the problem occured and not passing on details to his successor. This does not however excuse the subsequent actions and attitude of this enterprise to correcting any problems as a result of the water damage caused to the property by their previous actions(inactions).

If anybody is considering using a large building enterprise from Cognac, they operate under at least 2 names, 1 for roofing and the other for building/renovation work, and want any further information then you are welcome to contact me via this forum.

 

Jongleur

 

[Turnip]

[quote]Hi miki It seems there must be some real naive people out there then . If plan a fails it`s plan b if plan b fails then plan c mind you b&c have changed places thanks to this forum ...[/quote]

These programmes rarely tell the tale of the disallusioned hordes who return to Britain, or worse still, are trapped in France watching their dream turn into a nightmare.

[Celtic Voyager]

I believe that this programme does not go the full ten yards on the subject ...the  problems and in some cases disaster, that follows folk who have believed  how easy it all was to find a new life abroad.   The misinformation that flowed from the programmes that proceeded this  one, encouraging people to follow their dreams is never acknowledged...perhaps to close to home ..sponsors etc..

[Teamedup]

Does this new wave of programs work though, in any good sense that is, the myths are already firmly established about living in France. That magical place where there is no crime, the weather is always good, the food is always good, in fact everything is good and very very cheap.

And that holiday........ wonderful......... which is the only realistic thing I do hear sometimes as the holiday was probably absolutely wonderful, because it is a truly great place to holiday.

 

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Don`t mention the weather.

[kiwitk<P>Kiwi in Cognac<P><P>[email protected]<P>]

Hi All,

We were the unfortunate couple on that programme where they took our roof off and then just left it open for months.  This happened in March, we did eventually get a roof but are still in a mexican standoff with this Cognac roofing company about them fixing the damage they caused.

The whole thing has been a bloody nightmare and nearly put me off france for good.  We thought we did everything correctly, got recommendations, used a company that was a subsidary of a supposedly well respected larger company.  Had several meetings before work began to make sure everyone understood what was expected, but just goes to show even when you think you've done everything right it can still all go horribly wrong!

Anyway - we still have the total renovation of the inside to do and naturally now have to find other artisans to do this.  So if anyone can recommend anyone that will return my faith in France that'd be great.  We need plumbers, electricians, general builders, the lot really.  Heaps of work to do.  Don't care if they are english or french just so long as they are reliable and HONEST.

Thanks all    Suggest replies are emailed as I haven't worked out how to get personal messages yet!

Tris

[Teamedup]

Near the top of the page there is something called 'Control Panel'. If you open that you will see as part of it's menu PM Inbox / PM SentItems. Also it will show at the top of your page if you have a PM too. It is quite easy really.

[kiwitk<P>Kiwi in Cognac<P><P>[email protected]<P>]

thanks for that - I re-registered under this new name as for some reason I wasn't getting the option to use my mailbox under my old registered name.  Will give that control panel a go now