Quillan Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 [quote user="Frenchie"]Well, we'll agree to disagree.It has nothing to do with age. When they ask political or businessmen or singers " does fame help with women ? " almost all answer " yes". I'm not saying ALL women are attracted by famous men, but I'm 100% sure it attracts many women into their beds.Or maybe that's a French thing again ! [:P][/quote]I think your right there Frenchie, its amazing how low women will sink just to be shagged by likes of Peter Stringfellow and Johnny Hallyday, thank god for Viagra these chaps are often heard to say. Of course the fact they have shed loads of money and are mildly famous does not come in to the equation when you talk to the women they bed. It seems that unlike many British women some French women feel it's OK to 'prostitute' themselves to these type of men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Unlike many British women, oh come on Quillan! We all know there are no fleas in Britain either! [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Quiilna, really... Did you have to bring Peter Stringfellow into this?I'm going to have thong-based nightmares all week now...Yuk [+o(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 [quote user="Clair"]Quillna, really... Did you have to bring Peter Stringfellow into this?I'm going to have thong-based nightmares all week now...Yuk [+o(][/quote]Yep and she loves him for his intelligence and natural whit, nothing to do whatsoever with his money.P.S. You don't have to be a woman to have nightmares about him in a thong, trust me on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 But we laugh at Peter Stringfellow, do we not ? And the usually younger and less worldly wise females he is reported to be attracted to alledgedly....Frenchie, doesn't it strike you as pathetic that a mature man would rely on his fame (politician or singer) to get what he wanted from a woman. And to still desire that kind of meaningless fleeting relationship, while being in a long term permanent relationship - talk about shallow (whatever nationality) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 [quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="Salty Sam"] within the US, there is the "Grand Jury". [/quote]Which DSK has already been before and been indicted by:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/dominique-strauss-kahn/8524805/Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-former-IMF-head-formally-indicted.html(over a week ago now.)[/quote]The Grand Jury was touched on over a week ago in a posting at 16:29 on the 20th instant...And even more difficult for the french to understand due to being spoon fed the official history of france as per the Civil Code, thanks to the original dwarf, endorsed by the Third Republic......BUT the principle of the Grand Jury where 24 true men were chosen to decide if the state could pursue a criminal trial against a citizen; a simple majority of 13 was required. This important principle was taken to the colonies from the common law of the English Realm and was used frequently to protect colonists from the ire of the UK Parliament; as the jurors were of course fellow colonists. The principle is enshrined in USA law in the form of the 5th Amendment to the American Constitution. We should not forget the introduction of this judicial restraint introduced into English Common Law by Henry II, husband of Alienor of Aquitaine, after he became King of England. Thankyou FRANCE for adding an essential element to Anglo-Saxon Law and indirectly to the protection of the freedom of the citizen even today in the United States of America. Amusing as it may be to the chattering classes of the home counties and dordogneshire. If I may add the Grand Jury simple majority follows the legal principle of "on the balance of probability", normally associated with the burden of proof in a Civil Trial. The decision from a Grand Jury indicates that on the balance of probability there are grounds for the matter proceeding to a trial; it in no way is an indication guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 [quote user="Clarkkent"] What people seem to be forgetting in this interesting discussion on comparative legal systems is that there is not a single jusirdiction in the USA - each state has its own, most being based on English common law, but Louisiana uses Napoleonic law. The federal legal system is based on common law.DSK committed his alleged offence in New York City, so will be tried under New York State law. Previous comments about practices in federal courts are not appropriate.[/quote]I certainly have not read any inappropriate comments; I would just observe that the procedures for Jury Selection vary within the individual counties of the State of New York; contrast and compare for example manhattan,bronx,and queens without wandering further afield.I presume that in the case DSK we are concerned with the Manhattan Court House situated in the Southern District: see PDF.http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/jury_handbook/juryplan_feb_2009.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote user="Frenchie"]Or maybe that's a French thing again ! [:P][/quote]So they have Reality TV shows in France also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote user="Russethouse"] But we laugh at Peter Stringfellow, do we not ? And the usually younger and less worldly wise females he is reported to be attracted to alledgedly....Frenchie, doesn't it strike you as pathetic that a mature man would rely on his fame (politician or singer) to get what he wanted from a woman. And to still desire that kind of meaningless fleeting relationship, while being in a long term permanent relationship - talk about shallow (whatever nationality)[/quote]An how shallow are the women that fall for it?It's seems clear to me after reading one, or two, comments that some feel its not a problem but then France is supposed to be one of the most chauvinistic countries in Europe so I guess that this behavior has been 'bred in' to some French women and is deemed to be OK to do these things and be treated as such. Perhaps they (politicians etc) are all 'at it' and DSK's problem is he got caught. I wonder if it had happened in France would it have been brushed under the carpet? If it is all true I think your more likely to see justice served in the US in this instance than in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Quillan, you guess that this behaviour has been bred into some French women. What behaviour? That is not a nice thing to say. Noone on here has said that sexual abuse is not a problem. What has been said is that people's private lives should be respected.You mean across the Channel, nothing goes on. Give us a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote user="Christine Animal"] Quillan, you guess that this behaviour has been bred into some French women. What behaviour? That is not a nice thing to say. Noone on here has said that sexual abuse is not a problem. What has been said is that people's private lives should be respected.You mean across the Channel, nothing goes on. Give us a break.[/quote]What I am talking about is the sexual harassment (for that is what I and others call it) of women over the years by DSK as reported in some of the links in this thread. Having an affair is one thing but being a sexual predator and going round sexually harassing women in this day and age is simply not on and it's illegal even in France. Then for some people to imply that its OK it truly outstanding, I just can't understand their attitude and I believe it to be demeaning to other women. The only explanation, given the chauvinistic attitude of some French men that this 'OK' attitude amongst a minority of French women can only mean that somehow it has been bread in to them.Yes of course it happens in the UK and in politics as well, MP's using prostitutes, Deputy PM's and even PM's having affairs but I don't recall any sexual harassment. That does not mean it has not happened but I doubt that it has as the perpetrator would have his/her misdemeanours spread across every newspaper in the land. According to you "Noone on here has said that sexual abuse is not a problem. What has been said is that people's private lives should be respected." then in France these men of power can go around sexually harassing, or in your words even abusing women but as long as everyyone says nothing in public it's OK. Well I am absolutely dumbfoundead, here I am trying to stick up for or at least show my support for women only to be told by a woman that it's OK. Next time I see a woman being abused, sexually abused (fortunately I have not seen this happen), sexually harassed and asking for help I shall just walk on by because there right to privacy should be respected. [:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 "then in France these men of power can go around sexually harassing, or in your words even abusing women but as long as everyyone says nothing in public it's OK."That's enough now Quillan. I never said such a thing and I won't allow you to say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote user="Christine Animal"] "then in France these men of power can go around sexually harassing, or in your words even abusing women but as long as everyone says nothing in public it's OK."That's enough now Quillan. I never said such a thing and I won't allow you to say so.[/quote]What exactly do you mean when you said[quote user="Christine Animal"]None on here has said that sexual abuse is not a problem. What has been said is that people's private lives should be respected.[/quote]One can only read this one way. I was talking about sexual harassment and that is the term I used, you bought in the word 'abuse', I didn't until after you used it. You are right in that peoples private lives should be respected but not at the cost of women being sexually harassed or even using the same word you did as quoted above, abused, harassment and abuse are two different things. Both are against the law and the law takes priority over privacy and position. Perhaps DSK, regardless of if he is innocent or not, should have thought about all this a long time ago then he wouldn't be in the position he now is. Also politicians are voted in by the people, they represent the people, the people pay their salaries (and expenses) so they are accountable to the people even in their private life when in office although many seem to conveniently forget this at times. The people have a right to know because it determines the character of the person and their honesty although with the latter having an honest politician is a bit like finding rocking horse manure these days in any country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I don't know how many times female friends in France would say this little one liner to me 'q'est ce tu veux, c'est comme ca' when I would question various chauvinistic behaviour in France. I could not acquiesce as they appear to. I made a little comment earlier, but I am actually quite 'proud' of many of the comments that the men have made on here. I find it very reassuring that men can be men without being predators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 "Noone on here has said that sexual abuse is not a problem". I really don't know what I can explain about that sentence, it seems pretty clear."What has been said is that people's private lives should be respected". This was referring to earlier on in the thread where it was said that in France people's privacy is respected (in general), whereas in the UK they can be hounded by the press. Nothing to do with harrassment. You (Quillan) are making statements that some on here have found sexual harrassment in France to be okay. I have not seen anyone say that and just tried to give an example of what has been said about the two different cultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote user="idun"]I made a little comment earlier, but I am actually quite 'proud' of many of the comments that the men have made on here. I find it very reassuring that men can be men without being predators.[/quote]I think you will find men (well amongst English men, because I now my own kind) in general, know the difference between right and wrong in these matters and they understand the morality of it as well. Even so there are some that don't and as with all things we all tend to get tared with the same brush. I have found that if you treat women with respect and equality it makes life so much easier and enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote user="idun"] I don't know how many times female friends in France would say this little one liner to me 'q'est ce tu veux, c'est comme ca' when I would question various chauvinistic behaviour in France. I could not acquiesce as they appear to. I made a little comment earlier, but I am actually quite 'proud' of many of the comments that the men have made on here. I find it very reassuring that men can be men without being predators.[/quote]Isn't that the nub of the debate, whilst men will always be from mars and women from venus, with my anglo-saxon mindset it seems to me that's it's never been easier for women to complain about sexual affronts to them (and never worse for men, who are instantly named and shamed before trial) so it does make you wonder about the different attitude to this by french women; why aren't they aware of attitudes elsewhere and capable of asserting themselves against affronts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote user="Christine Animal"]"Noone on here has said that sexual abuse is not a problem". I really don't know what I can explain about that sentence, it seems pretty clear."What has been said is that people's private lives should be respected". This was referring to earlier on in the thread where it was said that in France people's privacy is respected (in general), whereas in the UK they can be hounded by the press. Nothing to do with harrassment. You (Quillan) are making statements that some on here have found sexual harrassment in France to be okay. I have not seen anyone say that and just tried to give an example of what has been said about the two different cultures. [/quote]100% with you Christine.That's really getting too much now. [:@] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote user="Christine Animal"]"Noone on here has said that sexual abuse is not a problem". I really don't know what I can explain about that sentence, it seems pretty clear."What has been said is that people's private lives should be respected". This was referring to earlier on in the thread where it was said that in France people's privacy is respected (in general), whereas in the UK they can be hounded by the press. Nothing to do with harassment. You (Quillan) are making statements that some on here have found sexual harassment in France to be okay. I have not seen anyone say that and just tried to give an example of what has been said about the two different cultures.[/quote]I saw the two sentences side by side, one following on from the other, which implied they were linked. If you meant them as completely separate statements then fair enough. I still have to disagree with you about private lives especially amongst those in the public eye. If a senior member in public life is accused of sexual harassment then yes they should be hounded by the press until the truth is presented for all to see as this is a very serious offence. I also think it is not fair, as I understand it from one of Clair's links, that other senior people in public life should 'rally round' not only to persuade the alleged victims to keep quiet but to try and keep them away from the press. If you go back and read some of the links Clair has given in her posts then read the comments afterwards it might explain more of what I am talking about.Whilst typing this I saw you post John, well said.I still believe that the identity of both the accused and the victim in cases of a sexual nature should be kept secret until after the trial. Sure they can call them 'A' or 'B' or whatever and if the accused is found innocent then their name should never be released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote user="Quillan"][quote user="Christine Animal"] Quillan, you guess that this behaviour has been bred into some French women. What behaviour? That is not a nice thing to say. Noone on here has said that sexual abuse is not a problem. What has been said is that people's private lives should be respected.You mean across the Channel, nothing goes on. Give us a break.[/quote]What I am talking about is the sexual harassment (for that is what I and others call it) of women over the years by DSK as reported in some of the links in this thread. Having an affair is one thing but being a sexual predator and going round sexually harassing women in this day and age is simply not on and it's illegal even in France. GOSH, who said the contrary ????Then for some people to imply that its OK it truly outstanding, WHO SAID SO ? ? ? ? I just can't understand their attitude and I believe it to be demeaning to other women. The only explanation, given the chauvinistic attitude of some French men AND NOT SOME UK MEN ???? that this 'OK' attitude amongst a minority of French women can only mean that somehow it has been bread in to them. N'importe quoi !!Yes of course it happens in the UK and in politics as well, MP's using prostitutes, Deputy PM's and even PM's having affairs but I don't recall any sexual harassment. That does not mean it has not happened but I doubt that it has as the perpetrator would have his/her misdemeanours spread across every newspaper in the land. According to you "Noone on here has said that sexual abuse is not a problem. What has been said is that people's private lives should be respected." then in France these men of power can go around sexually harassing, or in your words even abusing women but as long as everyyone says nothing in public it's OK. I guess you're pretending not to understand, can't be otherwise... In France we have a law that protects people's private lives being spread in the press. Private life is who people see, their alleged affairs, but sexual abuse and rape etc has nothing to do with private life :!!!Well I am absolutely dumbfoundead, here I am trying to stick up for or at least show my support for women only to be told by a woman that it's OK. Next time I see a woman being abused, sexually abused (fortunately I have not seen this happen), sexually harassed and asking for help I shall just walk on by because there right to privacy should be respected. [:(][/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 So exactly what is your view? Because from what you have written it seems to be that DSK, or men of his ilk, can be sexual predators, attempt to impose their desires on women who may be intimidated or flattered because of the mans status and its all OK because its their private life and wouldn't have any effect on the job they do, the attention they give to their work or the amount of respect they have from colleagues etc?Have I got the wrong impression ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 CFCV say it far better than I can:http://www.cfcv.asso.fr/communiques/c2,communique.php?id=79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote user="Russethouse"] So exactly what is your view? Because from what you have written it seems to be that DSK, or men of his ilk, can be sexual predators, NO !!!I said they can have affairs, it s nobody's business but theirs, an affair is between two people agreeing freely ! attempt to impose their desires on women who may be intimidatedor flattered because of the mans status If a woman is flattered and wants it too, well, it's up to them to go to bed with them! and its all OK because its their private life Y E S and wouldn't have any effect on the job they do, the attention they give to their work or the amount of respect they have from colleagues etc? Well, here we apparently reach a cultural gap, from whatI could gather from people's reactiuons on this forum... In France, the vast majority of people agree that they didn't care Mitterrand had a mistress ( and a daughter with her ) , and Chirac, etc.. Have I got the wrong impression ?[/quote] Ab-so-lu-tely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote user="Russethouse"] Have I got the wrong impression ?[/quote]Not necessarily, but talking about the background being exposed in this specific case and some french attitudes being discussed, if someone in authority makes unwanted sexual attentions on staff and none complain, even colluding to keep it secret, then what would make them aware that it is unwelcome, what else would change the behaviour ? It must be up to the offended party to stand up and protest surely, and what other way is there ? Isn't this part of what we have seen in emancipation of women's rights elsewhere for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote user="just john "][quote user="Russethouse"] Have I got the wrong impression ?[/quote]Not necessarily, but talking about the background being exposed in this specific case and some french attitudes being discussed, if someone in authority makes unwanted sexual attentions on staff and none complain, even colluding to keep it secret, then what would make them aware that it is unwelcome, what else would change the behaviour ? It must be up to the offended party to stand up and protest surely, and what other way is there ? Isn't this part of what we have seen in emancipation of women's rights elsewhere for?[/quote]Russethouse wondered if she had a wrong impression of my opinion.. And John, the answer is definitely a big Y E S ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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