Where does it leave us??

[Racerbear02]

With all the furore over Cameron's courageous stand / act of stupidity  (delete to choice) what would happen to us, the Brits in France if the UK leaves or is kicked out of the EU??

Would we still be welcome here?  would we have to take out French citizenship to remain here?? a return to the carte de sejour???

Hardly major issues on the global scale to tax Sarko or Cameron, but quite important to me [8-)]

[Bugsy]

Check out the second paragraph [:D]

Keep your rifle handy [:P][:D]

.

[just john]

Check out the third paragraph[:D]

[Kitty]

Presumably the same arrangements that Switzerland has with the EU would apply?  Swiss people are free to come and go into the EU without visas etc.

And Norway.

Does the European Economic Area still exist?

[nomoss]

I stopped believing what arabs told me many many years ago [:D]

[NickP]

[quote user="Racerbear02"]With all the furore over Cameron's courageous stand / act of stupidity  (delete to choice) what would happen to us, the Brits in France if the UK leaves or is kicked out of the EU??

Would we still be welcome here?  would we have to take out French citizenship to remain here?? a return to the carte de sejour???

Hardly major issues on the global scale to tax Sarko or Cameron, but quite important to me [8-)]
[/quote]

I don't think anything would change, except maybe the exchange rate? Border controls may tighten up a bit for Brits entering into France .  Quite possibly anybody carrying commercial goods may have to go back to carrying a carnet. Residential controls are already in place for those who  have holiday homes, those who want to live here; maybe  the visa system would return, maybe one of our American members could enlighten us what the situation is for non EC residents. Would we be still welcome here? I don't think any problems, as long as we spend money here and continue to tell the French what a wonderful culture and society they have, and how envious we are of their gastronomic traditions. [:D] 

[NormanH]

Presumably all the E forms( such as cover health etc) will no longer be valid, and Brits in France would be treated on the same level as any other non-European immigrant..with no voting powers, or rights.

[Jazzer]

Possibly the annual increase in pensions may also stop.Would we need visa's?

In Britain, manufacturers etc would probably have to pay import duties, which would have a crippling effect on an already struggling sector. The CBI are said to have concerns.

[woolybanana]

We have not left the EU, guys, just declined to play Sarkozy's little game or become part of the Greater German Empire. There is no mechanism to kick anyone out either, as far as I know.

 And don't think the British are the only ones who are fed up with Merkel's solutions or Sarkozy posing either as Daladier or as Daffy Duck. Austerity is gonna hit hard, much harder than anyone in unreal Euroland realises.

And there is doubt as to whether the present arrangement is legal too, so just hold your selves in line, keep your dressing and ignore the cannonballs.

[Jazzer]

The question asked was what would happen if we were to leave.

[Rabbie]

If the UK were to leave the UK the position of British Citizens in France would depend on whether the current arrangements on health care etc were honoured.

Of course IMO it would be a disater for the UK to leave since a lot of our investment from non-EU countries depends on our membership of the EU. Hopefully common sense will prevail and the UK will not cut off its nose to spite its face.

 

[NormanH]

[quote user="Rabbie"]

If the UK were to leave the UK the position of British Citizens in France would depend on whether the current arrangements on health care etc were honoured.

Of course IMO it would be a disater for the UK to leave since a lot of our investment from non-EU countries depends on our membership of the EU. Hopefully common sense will prevail and the UK will not cut off its nose to spite its face.

 

[/quote]

Given the fight by Cooperlola and others to make France let people join the CMU, which  depended on EU legislation  saying that people in Europe are treated equally across the board I doubt that a UK outside the EU would be able to insist on anything.

It might not be a bad thing if the UK were to leave, forcing British immigrants to wake up to their real status.

[Bill]

[quote user="NormanH"][quote user="Rabbie"]

If .

 

[/quote]
.
It might not be a bad thing if the UK were to leave, forcing British immigrants to wake up to their real status.
[/quote]

 

what is our real status then ?

 

two penny worth , one thing not going along with euro land biz niz, another to leave europe,

there is for sure a lost decade on route, and maybe a proper 1930's depression..  miserable an outlook as that may seem.

 

think back to the financial crisis,  the americans and Brown ran around the world saying DO NOT  put up interest rates & spend to  boost the economies , otherwise it is the 1930's re run. ( Isaverd the world  said brown ) Bernanke claimed he had been studying the 1930's and waiting all of his life to take that leadership role at that moment .

and now ?  they are clamping down on spending here there and everywhere.. maybe no alternative, but the result will be the depression.

not that I know anything anyway !!!!

Bill

 

 

[pachapapa]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

We have not left the EU, guys, just declined to play Sarkozy's little game or become part of the Greater German Empire. There is no mechanism to kick anyone out either, as far as I know.

 And don't think the British are the only ones who are fed up with Merkel's solutions or Sarkozy posing either as Daladier or as Daffy Duck. Austerity is gonna hit hard, much harder than anyone in unreal Euroland realises.

And there is doubt as to whether the present arrangement is legal too, so just hold your selves in line, keep your dressing and ignore the cannonballs.

[/quote]

Kicked out for administrative reasons up to 5 years.

Kicked out for Criminal reasons up to 10 years.

As a EU citizen u av zee right to remain, even in prison.

 

[Frederick]

 I am led to believe that France takes  more out of the EU pot than it puts in .... The UK puts more into the EU pot than it takes out ....Does Sarko really want the UK to keep the zipper on its wallet tightly closed in the future ?  ... Who needs who the most ?

[nomoss]

The EU was a french club since day one. I thought everyone knew and accepted that.

[NickP]

Norman wrote:  "might not be a bad thing if the UK were to leave, forcing British immigrants to wake up to their real status."

Also might wake up roughly 350,000 French who live in southern England. [:P]

[Mac]

I suppose a lot also depends on personnal circumstances. If you have lived and/or worked here for a considerable number of years then french citizenship might suit. If like myself you have recently arrived but still have property/money in the UK then you have a choice. But what about people who have sold everything and moved to France in retirement? I think they are the ones who would have the most problems should the worse come to the worse.

[Joe]

MY STATUS here is as a taxpayer who has chosen to live here.

Nobody in government on either side of the channel are that stupid surely?

Mind you there is an election here soon I believe!

[Quillan]

[quote user="nomoss"]The EU was a french club since day one. I thought everyone knew and accepted that.[/quote]

Actually it's more of a French and German club that goes back to before WW1 when they both talked about an integrated Europe. The UK however were talking even then about isolation from Europe because they had an empire so saw no point n being part of Europe. There was much discussion that went on up to WW2 about 'Free Trade' but not with Europe, only within the Empire. Our biggest problem was loosing out on trade even back then especially with India and cotton goods. The UK exported much of it's cotton to India and at one point in the early thirties Mahatma Gandhi instigated a peaceful, and highly successful protest, by getting Indians to spin their own tread at home (most people would have seen the famous picture of him doing this) this just about crippled the cotton industry in the UK forcing many cotton mills to close.

[brianagain]

[quote user="Quillan"]The UK exported much of it's cotton to India and at one point in the early thirties Mahatma Gandhi instigated a peaceful, and highly successful protest, by getting Indians to spin their own tread at home (most people would have seen the famous picture of him doing this) this just about crippled the cotton industry in the UK forcing many cotton mills to close.[/quote]

But...The indigeneous cotton industry was well developed before Britain's colonisation of India from the late 18th century onwards. Britain's policies enacted mainly through the East India Company gradually undermined local production of finished goods and India was forced instead by law to supply raw cotton to Britain and then had to purchase finished textiles from Britain - so I guess what goes around, comes around.

Brian (again)

[Quillan]

Going back to the OP's question, it might be interesting to use the following link as a starting point.

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/08/778&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

This is not about what you will loose but it is what you are entitled to as an EU citizen moving to another EU country.

Providing the UK stays a member of the EU nothing will change.

If on the other hand the UK leaves the EU by being pushed or by jumping then I would guess and it is only a guess that the following could happen.

E106 and E121 as they were and now conjoint as an S1 will cease to be valid. This is an EU form that moves your health care from one EU State to another so you would no longer have health care cover unless you are working in France and paying tax and social charges here. The same of course applies to any UK passport holder in any of the 26 member states.

Being outside the EU you may for instance require a visitors permit to come to France for a holiday just as Americans, Australians (as English speaking countries) and Canadians with the strange exemption for those from Quebec for some reason.

If you want to live here you may require a residency permit which would be granted, should you not have a job, on your worth and income just like it used to be about ten years ago. My guess is, and again it's only a guess, is that those of us who are working and paying our way in France and are not a burden will probably get a residency permit as a matter of course but who knows. Pensioners may not be so lucky and the 'killer' for them may well be health care insurance i.e. the cost being so high due to age and possible pre-existing conditions may mean for some the money left over to live on would not be sufficient.

There would be one advantage for those with holiday homes traveling back and forth, duty free would come back with the same limits as say for visiting the US.

All of this is purely conjecture of course.

 

[mint]

[quote user="Mac"]I suppose a lot also depends on personnal circumstances. If you have lived and/or worked here for a considerable number of years then french citizenship might suit. If like myself you have recently arrived but still have property/money in the UK then you have a choice. But what about people who have sold everything and moved to France in retirement? I think they are the ones who would have the most problems should the worse come to the worse.[/quote]

Well we are amongst the "people who have sold everything and moved to France in retirement".  As we will have been here for 5 years next April, what's to stop us applying for French nationality?

We might be old but that doesn't mean that we "can't pay our way" (mentioned by more than one poster), nor have neither the wits nor the resources to continue to stay here should we so choose.

I see that ageism is alive and well on the Forum [+o(] 

[Bugsy]

[quote user="NormanH"]It might not be a bad thing if the UK were to leave, forcing British immigrants to wake up to their real status.

[/quote]

So predictable Norman,  talking out of your a r s e again.

.

[Quillan]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Mac"]I suppose a lot also depends on personnal circumstances. If you have lived and/or worked here for a considerable number of years then french citizenship might suit. If like myself you have recently arrived but still have property/money in the UK then you have a choice. But what about people who have sold everything and moved to France in retirement? I think they are the ones who would have the most problems should the worse come to the worse.[/quote]

Well we are amongst the "people who have sold everything and moved to France in retirement".  As we will have been here for 5 years next April, what's to stop us applying for French nationality?

We might be old but that doesn't mean that we "can't pay our way" (mentioned by more than one poster), nor have neither the wits nor the resources to continue to stay here should we so choose.

I see that ageism is alive and well on the Forum [+o(] 

[/quote]

The thing is there are many retirees to France living on a limited budget, even more limited with the near collapse of the pound against the Euro. I know of more than one couple who are in this position. Should the situation arise that the UK departs the EU they would have no alternative but to go back to the UK because they could not afford to stay.

On the other hand I know some others to whom it wouldn't be a problem. The there are those that would be in the middle, leaving permanent residency and continue to keep their property as a holiday home.