Bongo Bongo Land

[Gardian]

A UKIP MEP has got himself in to trouble by criticising the level of UK Overseas Development aid to countries which he described in those terms.

It was a daft thing to say - if he'd simply confined himself to expressing criticism of the principle, nobody would have noticed. Instead, he opens a whole can of worms.

Anyway, I didn't really to start a 'Should we, shouldn't we' debate (although it could easily head that way): I was just interested in whether anybody could point to a link indicating France's level of comparable spend and to which countries?

[Quillan]

Have a look for Agence Française de Développement.

Sorry but this mans comments just underline that UKIP is racist which many have been saying for ages. It gives an insight into exactly what goes through their minds and their mentality. I shall leave it at that.

[Frederick]

Hardly generous

http://hueintheworld.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/incessant-colonial-strongholds-of-france-on-former-french-colonies/

[idun]

I don't get  the foreign aid.

Geldof, what did he do for Ethiopia, well the population has more than doubled, is that what he was trying to do, and the population still cannot feed itself.

At sixty years old now, I realise that all my life charities have been been begging for aid for '3rd world countries' and the british government is still forking out too.

So me obviously being thick as the proverbial........ where did the money go and why are the 3rd world countries not only living quite well, but with reasonable birth rates and decently educated kids and decent living conditions and able to grow crops?????? There has been enough money pumped in to cover all that, and more............. and so I have no time for any of the charities and would stop all aid now, just like that.

India is still getting it! No time to stop.

The only aid I would give would be after any real disaster, ie the tsnuami, or earthquakes etc. Not reckless over populating.

[Théière]

[quote user="Quillan"]

Have a look for Agence Française de Développement.

Sorry but this mans comments just underline that UKIP is racist which many have been saying for ages. It gives an insight into exactly what goes through their minds and their mentality. I shall leave it at that.

[/quote]

Interesting comments on the news, when asking members of the public, a fair number said it was un diplomatic. So that means it's ok for people to think like that as long as you don't say it........ that's still racist thinking.  

Didn't Prince Phillip shout at foreign dignitaries to get back to 'Bongo Bongo land', but he's not a member of UKIP.

Of course if he had of named an actual country that would have sparked off a huge row, so this way he has just angered a few and got the subject of foreign aid back on the agenda 

[Quillan]

I think Prince Philip has put his foot in it more than once. I seem to remember he made a comment about slit or slanted eyes as well a long while back. Still he is not allowed to run as an MP nor would he want to. The problem with UKIP is they do attract a certain type of person who tends (but not always) to lean to the right a little who may have voted Tory in the past. By doing this they make it easier for Labour to win at the next election and then we are off down that slippery path again of spending what we don't have and raising immigrant limits providing of course they vote Labour.

[YCCMB]

Foreign aid agencies, at least when I was spending most of my working time in Africa, always seemed to me to be incredibly skilled at wasting money. Every 4 WD vehicle on the road out there seemed to belong to some aid agency or another, and the people they had on the ground were so numerous they were falling over one another. No doubt they were also duplicating, as well as doing and undoing one another's work, too.

The only place I ever saw a reasonable approach to international aid was Eritrea, just after it gained its independence from Ethiopia. Eritreans were flocking back from exile from all over the globe to get stuck in and build their country. Many of them were working for nothing (or not much) to get the country on its feet. And their attitude to foreign aid was clear: we don't want your money unless you let us decide how best to use it. If aid comes with strings and vast numbers of unnecessary "helpers", you can keep it.

As to the remark, it just seems to be another UKIP member digging the ever deepening hole that Farage will once again try to weasel his way (and his party's way) out of. And this is the guy already thrown out of the European Parliament for making "Nazi" remarks to a German MEP. Sadly, yes, there is a mercifully silent minority that think it's just "undiplomatic" and no doubt they will be queuing up to vote for these morons. "Be careful what you wish for" springs to mind....

[dwmcn]

Q,

So, no Conservatives say similar things? Does that make the whole Conservative party racist?

David 

[nomoss]

[quote user="Théière"]

................. Interesting comments on the news, when asking members of the public, a fair number said it was un diplomatic. So that means it's ok for people to think like that as long as you don't say it........ that's still racist thinking.  .......................... [/quote]

 

I agree. It's definitely time to have Thought Police to seek out these sort of people and stamp on this sort of thinking.[:-))]

 

 

[sid]

If it's racist, who are the Bongo race exactly?  [Www]

 

[nomoss]

Something to do with Italy?

[Quillan]

[quote user="dwmcn"]

Q,

So, no Conservatives say similar things? Does that make the whole Conservative party racist?

David 

[/quote]

I suspect that there are racists in all the other parties but they are a minority and when discovered have been thrown out. If you look at UKIP's MEP's and current councillors many have made some form of racist comment like Alan Jessop councillor Spalding South also made some very nasty homophobic Twitter posts, Eric Kitson councillor for Stourport made a load of very nasty anti Muslim and anti Jewish posts on Facebook, Paul Wiffin UKIP London Chairman's comments about Romanians, Muslims and Africans in general, there have been a few others as well but I forget their names. I think anyone who tries to defend these people clearly show direct or indirect racism themselves and I am glad that at least in our little forum we don't have any (racists that is).

[NickP]

[quote user="Quillan"] 

 there have been a few others as well but I forget their names. I think anyone who tries to defend these people clearly show direct or indirect racism themselves and I am glad that at least in our little forum we don't have any (racists that is).

[/quote]

Anybody looking for offence in anything will find it. I think using the term Bongo Bongo land is a bit stupid but I defend the mans right to say that all these countries like India who have nuclear weapons should not get aid. If that makes me racist so be it. If you don't like that Q you know what you can do as you are a mod and have the right to say what you like but seem to want to deny others their view.[:P][:P][:P]

[Bugsy]

All you people playing the 'racist card' are surely missing the point.

Fact: An huge amount of foreign aid currently ends up in the wrong hands and does buy 'Raybans' & Ferraris for those corrupt individuals in power.

Fact: A lot of this spending is quite ridiculous given the current financial state of the UK.

Fact: Argentina did buy Portugese-made fighter planes with money received in handouts from the UK. If it ever kicks off again over there our soldiers would be facing weapons bought with UK money.

So feel free, play your racist cards and never let the truth get in the way of a good moan.

[Gardian]

Just going back to my original question, I've researched a little bit with the help of Quillan's pointer.

UK Overseas aid expenditure (top 28 countries) is apparently £2.74bn. Of that 64% goes to the 'top 10' countries - Ethiopia, Pakistan, India, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Tanzania, DR of Congo, Malawi & South Sudan. Generally, each receives £100m - £200m p.a. Further down the list, Somalia receives £80m & RSA £63m.

French Overseas aid expenditure seems to be €3.58bn (but I'd be more than happy to be corrected on my interpretation of the website). As you'd probably expect, the spend is heavily biaised towards former French 'dependencies' (Algeria, Morocco, Ivory Coast, etc). 

For both the UK and France, expenditure seems to be protected year-on-year.

[Théière]

I remember Ali Bongo, he was magic, don't know if he actually came from Bongo Bongo as I have only just moved in and still waiting for my first, aid cheque to arrive [;-)]

[Gardian]

[quote user="Gardian"]

UK Overseas aid expenditure (top 28 countries) is apparently £2.74bn. [/quote]

Oh and BTW, that number seems to be some way short of the "£1bn per month" that the UKIP MEP quoted.

Having said that, I'll nail my colours to the mast.

If I ruled the UK, I'd be seriously questioning why we were sending just on a total of £600m p.a. to Pakistan, India and Nigeria. 

[Rabbie]

I have no problem with the UK spending a relatively low percentage of GDP on foreign aid. After all our prosperity was built, like other country's,  on explotation of our colonies so it only seems fair to give them a helpin hand in these more enlightened times.

However, I believe there should be better control on how the money is spent. It should not be used to help the rich elite but used to help the poor majority improve their situation in a sustainable way.

[powerdesal]

Given the propensity for calling ''racist'' at any opportunity in the UK at the moment, it was a bit silly of Mr Bloom to use the term ' Bongo-Bongo Land'.

However, his underlying message was clear. UK Overseas aid is not only mis-directed but is totally unrealistic in the present financial situation.

To borrow money in order to give it away to other countries is not good financial management. How much more sensible would it be to suspend ALL foreign aid ( except disaster aid ), get the UK finances back on track and then restart aid after a radical reassessment of the regions to be given it.

Such action would have the backing of the majority of the UK population ( IMO ) who would see that their govt was putting them first. That population are the ones who are funding the aid and it must rile them that they can see such things as food banks in many UK cities whilst the ''Wabenzi'' tribes of Africa and elsewhere are being paid lots of their tax money.

India is on record as saying they do not want UK aid, Pakistan is funding AQ terrorists, even China gets aid from UK.

It's not right, it's not sensible.

[nectarine]

He may have used a clumsy term but at least he's brave enough to point out what a lot of us are thinking .... unfortunately the 'racist police' jump in to try to stop what is a much-needed discussion about millions of pounds being mis-spent. I've no doubt that many of these countries need our aid, but while their dictators seem to live a billionaire lifestyle at our expense - and doesn't India have a space program? - then shouldn't we be questioning where taxpayers' money is going.

[Quillan]

I agree that Mr Bloom's comments were ill thought out and very stupid but then so is calling a policeman a cretin and losing your ministerial job. Politics is riddled with little scandals re inappropriate comments over the years causing many also to loose their job or position. The Tories lost Anne Winterton around 10 years ago because of a joke at a private dinner party that some felt racist so seeming as this guy said it at a public meeting he should defiantly go and not be told "not to do it again" by the party chairman. I also thought Blooms comments in interview were rather odd when he basically said he represented the bloke down the pub, the rugby club, the golf club and the local cricket club. Well I seem to remember a certain German who used to hold his meetings in pub (OK Beer cellars but roughly the same thing) back in the 30's.

Anyway back to the point in question, it is interesting to see that France actually spends more on aid, for some reason I thought Britain would. It is actually 'small money' in the general scheme of things but I do tend to agree that charity begins at home. I also get very annoyed at the amount of adverts on TV asking for money, usually by bad luck on my part when I am eating. If I paid tax in the UK I would wonder why I am giving to these countries via my tax and overseas aid and then asked to give even more by charities. Perhaps the government should privatise aid i.e. leave it to these charities to raise money and supply aid and not get involved themselves.

 

[Théière]

Ah Powerdesal, it's down to credit ratings. The UK has a better credit rating so borrows money cheaply which it then lends/donates abroad with strings like who can build what. Some buys Ferraris and Raybans although who knows they may be "gifts " to win contracts.  We won't hear all of the facts..........there are strange forces at work

[Quillan]

[quote user="nectarine"]He may have used a clumsy term but at least he's brave enough to point out what a lot of us are thinking .... unfortunately the 'racist police' jump in to try to stop what is a much-needed discussion about millions of pounds being mis-spent. I've no doubt that many of these countries need our aid, but while their dictators seem to live a billionaire lifestyle at our expense - and doesn't India have a space program? - then shouldn't we be questioning where taxpayers' money is going.[/quote]

Your right it should be discussed but not in the terms of race, religion or sex. If the guy had thought more about what he wanted to say and personally didn't have a racist streak in him then he may have well done himself and his party a lot of good. It was him after all that made the comment and if he didn't 'have it in him' he would never have said it that way in the first place. Now people are discussing him rather than the issue which is sad but of his own making.

[Rabbie]

I suspect he used the term "Bongo Bongo land" as a shorthand  for any ex-colonial nation where aid money is not being used in an appropriate way.

A few years ago, there was a target for developed nations to spend 1% of GDP on foreign aid. IIRC only the scandinavian countries came close to this. If the UK government wants to help people at home perhaps it should look a bit more critically at Osbourne's plan to give child care vouchers to those with a joint income of upto £300,000 pa while decreasing the allowances given  to stay-at-home mothers earning much less. On this evidence I do not have much faith that even if the UK scrapped all its foreign aid that the money would go to those who needed it most.

[YCCMB]

I think the veracity or otherwise of the original statement has been overshadowed by the ill-chosen words used to make the point, however one feels about overseas aid.

It would seem that UKIP have chosen to become the Michael O'Leary of British politics by adopting the Ryanair approach that ANY publicity is good publicity and the more you insult people the more column inches you will get. Whether you support them or not, their approach is both dangerous and divisive, and their choice of spokespeople and candidates leaves (IMO) an awful lot to be desired. Farage seems prepared to put up anyone with a pulse as a candidate, safe in the knowledge that he'll get airtime out of it, whatever the outcome.