Romanians :Do they try this on in France ?

[Quillan]

OK prove me wrong, get the official immigration figure for the UK for the last 10 years year by year, then get me the figures for those expelled or refused entry for the same period and put them in the thread, if you can of course. [:P]

[chessie]

Gluestick's comments were a pretty accurate summary of what's happening in the UK.

The comments about 'renters' ceasing to pay rent and not being evicted for a time here in France has absolutely NOTHING  to do with what happened to the man who left his own home to go to work, and returned home to find people had moved in !!

This is not even squatters moving into a property that had been left empty for some time - it was only hours.

Would you feel quite so blase about this if you went out to collect your bread or to visit the market and when you returned home found some strangers making themselves at home in your property.   Don't think so somehow.  The smugness on this board from time to time is just unbelievable.

And the 'closed minds' and the refusal to accept the destruction of the UK is just so sad, so blinkered.

There ARE illegal immigrants and migrant workers in the UK who are killing the swans;  they are also living in shacks;  they HAVE caught and killed the fish stocks.

WHY are there some people who absolutely REFUSE to believe what is under their noses; refuse to belive that we have a bunch of Commie Traitors in charge who have deliberately set out to destroy the UK, the social cohesion, the history, traditions and culture of our country.

The white indigenous population of the UK is in the same situation as the Native Americans, the Aborigines, the Blacks in South Africa.   I am sure that all your sympathies would be with the indigenous populations of those country - after all Apartheid was so terrible wasn't it.

And yet you find it impossible to say a good word about the indigenous Brits;  there is a real stink of hypocrisy in some people's attitude.

Chessie

[NormanH]

If they were Romanians are not illegal immigrants

In any case there are no prizes for guessing who you won't be voting for in the next election [:)]

[5-element]

Norman and Quillan, thank you from me too.

Yet the great reluctance to talk about FRANCE persists.

[Swissie]

Having worked in close cooperation with my local Wildlife Police Inspector in the UK, I know many Brits who cruelly treat animals, from badger baiters to dog fighters (often related) - but I wouldn't dream of tarring of the Brits with that label. It is true to say that if I saw a swan being trapped and killed the way you describe, I'd be horrified and the first to act- but at least these people are doing it to eat, rather than just for cruelty or fun. And enormous cruelty to animals is also prevalent in France - where even badger digging and all kinds of bird trapping is perfectly legal - and not done by illegal immigrants.

[ebaynut]

[quote user="Quillan"]

OK prove me wrong, get the official immigration figure for the UK for the last 10 years year by year, then get me the figures for those expelled or refused entry for the same period and put them in the thread, if you can of course. [:P]

[/quote]

Would that be the "official" figures handed out by the Labour party you are asking for? [I]

[ebaynut]

[quote user="NormanH"]1) It would be much more difficult to get rid of squatters in France than in Britain,

[/quote]

Especially the Germans I hear. [:-))]

 

[mint]

Chessie wrote:

WHY are there some people who absolutely REFUSE to believe what is under their noses; refuse to belive that we have a bunch of Commie Traitors in charge who have deliberately set out to destroy the UK, the social cohesion, the history, traditions and culture of our country.

I can only think that you forgot to put in the smiley or the winking emoticons?

To coin a phrase:  "You can't be serious!"

However, if you do really hold this opinion of a democratically elected government of the UK, then that doesn't say much for your balance of mind.

Bring on the men with the white coats and quickly![I]

[NormanH]

[quote user="5-element"]Norman and Quillan, thank you from me too.

Yet the great reluctance to talk about FRANCE persists.[/quote]

Because the original story come from a right-wing newspaper just before a British election which is trying to persuade its readership to vote Conservative, and so is waving all the jingoistic flags about immigration crime etc.

People with the means to have a second home in France can hardly be expected to sympathise with  those  who have no home anywhere.

At the same time France, unlike Britain, does have an open border policy

in Europe under the Schengen agreement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area)

so journalistic references to Britains 'open door' policy have to be

treated with the contemptuous laugh that they deserve.

Of course there are problems  with the assimilation of various groups into France, and there are injustices here.

One of the reasons I have not yet taken dual nationality was that I was traumatised (and I am not a wilting violet) by my experiences getting a  Carte de Séjour at my local 'Bureau des Etrangers', and I am a white European male with all my papers in order.

At the same time I feel that there is at least an awareness of the needs for housing here.

There are the quotas for social housing in larger towns, the 'droit au logement opposable' (even if it doesn't really work yet) and the publicity given to the problem by organisations such as 'les enfants de don quichotte' http://www.lesenfantsdedonquichotte.com/

There is even mild sympathy for students squatting large unoccupied buildings in Paris (la place des Vosges springs to mind)

Above all there is the continuing and accelerating programme to construct more social housing, which contrasts with the policy of the sale of council houses at knock-down prices .

[Quillan]

I love it, smugness of people on this forum [:D] . It wouldn't be so bad if people put their case by stating facts and not fiction that they have read in newspapers that get some form of satisfaction in winding people up.

Anyway here a few facts from the Office for National Statistics who, contrary to what you may wish to believe, are not controlled by any political party. What the political parties do is take these figures and then reproduce them in such a way as to suite their own argument. These figures are however the 'raw' data.

Immigration.

Net immigration has added 1.5 million people to the population over the last 10 years. Two-thirds of them have come from the continents of Asia and Africa.

People born overseas account for about 10% of the population. This is up from just more than 6% in 1981 and just over 8% in 2001. This is compared with 24% in Australia, 23% in Switzerland, 19% in Canada and 13% in America. In France that figure is 8%, and 7% in Denmark.

The largest numbers of immigrants were born in Africa and the Middle East (3% of the working age population) and the Indian sub-continent (2.5%). Those born in the east and central European EU member states – the A8 - made up 1% of the working age population. Today A8 immigrants account for one in three of new immigrants since 2004.

In the last three years, East Anglia had the greatest number of A8 workers registering with employers in the area (15% of the total), followed by the Midlands (13%) and London (12%). A8 immigrants are more concentrated in low-skilled jobs, with only 13% in high-skilled occupations. Overall, there are more foreign-born than UK-born workers in highly skilled jobs (49% vs 42%).

The three most popular sectors for all foreign-born workers in the UK are public administration, education and health (32%), distribution, hotels and restaurants (21%) and banking, finance and insurance (20%). Immigrants are concentrated at the high and low skill end of the occupation distribution.

The employment rate of A8 immigrants is more than 80%, while that of immigrants born in Bangladesh is only around 50%. When employed, the average immigrant worker worked one and a half hours a week more in 2006 than the average individual born in the UK. The average hourly wage of all immigrants in that year was £11.90 compared with £11.50 for UK-born workers. The earnings gap is partly explained by the fact that immigrants are more likely than UK-born persons to live in London where hourly rates are higher than in the rest of the UK.

Among new immigrants (those arrived up to two years ago), the proportion of persons with degrees is particularly high (46%) and the proportion of persons with only secondary schooling particularly low (48%), compared to the UK-born population. Two-thirds of the UK-born population has only completed secondary school while 17% have a degree, Labour Force Survey data suggest. But 51% of all migrants have secondary school qualifications and 37% have degrees.

It seems to me that the immigrants are doing the jobs nobody wants to do or the jobs that quite frankly people are too lazy to do.

Emigration.

I can't find figures for 2009, I believe they will be released early summer.

The number of people leaving the UK for 12 months or more reached a record high in 2008, with an estimated 427,000 people emigrating. This was up from 341,000 in 2007 and 398,000 in 2006. This rise was as a result of a 50 per cent increase in non-British citizens emigrating from 169,000 in 2007 to 255,000 in 2008. Just over half of the 86,000 increase were citizens of the A8 Accession countries which joined the EU in 2004.

An estimated 590,000 people arrived to live in the UK in 2008, the second highest figure on record after 596,000 in 2006. This compared with 574,000 in 2007 and represents a continuation of the level of immigration seen since 2004. Of all immigrants 505,000 (86 per cent) were non-British citizens in 2008.

Net migration, the difference between immigration and emigration, decreased from 233,000 in 2007 to 163,000 as a result of increased emigration.

The data for Emigration is collected by the International Passenger Survey, how they actually collect the data is another matter but I think its fair to say that its figures are probably lower than reality. I don't know about others but when I emigrated to France nobody was particularly interested and I simply bought a one way ticket, got us on the train with our car and went and I suspect a lot of others did the same thing which is why I think the figures are a bit on the low side.

Anyway if you read the above there are some quite interesting information which blows away many of the urban myths about immigrants. I am not saying that all immigrants are good but what I am saying is that not all immigrants are bad either.

My wife has been transcribing a case about a chap you was arrested because he made a 'racist comment' about some immigrants who had made his shed at the bottom of his garden in to their home. At one point he said something along the lines of 'perhaps I should have done what the copper told me, wait till they went out and demolished the shed'. Bet that never gets printed but to be honest I was way in front, you can buy a new shed for £150 from B&Q or a couple of those small plastic things to put your gardening equipment in. Not a lot of money for peace of mind and a lot less hassle. Thats what I would have done and not bothered with the police.

[Richard51]

This makes interesting and rather sobering reading.

[Quillan]

[quote user="NormanH"][quote user="5-element"]Norman and Quillan, thank you from me too. Yet the great reluctance to talk about FRANCE persists.[/quote]

At the same time France, unlike Britain, does have an open border policy in Europe under the Schengen agreement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area) so journalistic references to Britains 'open door' policy have to be treated with the contemptuous laugh that they deserve.

[/quote]

I would have picked up on that if I had not posted after you Norman. I just love how people comment on any article in papers about the EU and getting out of it and what a terrible thing it is and how it forces legislation on the UK. Of course many of us know its an absolute load of old tosh. The government cherry picks what it wants from EU legislation, if its good they make it sound like it was their idea. If its bad the just say the EU made them do it. You are dead right Norman, the UK didn't sign up to the Schengen agreement and does not have an open door policy on immigration. There is loads of laws in the UK aimed at controlling immigrants, a classic example is that all immigrants must, by law, carry ID at all times. Failure to do so means instant arrest and their homes can be entered without warrant to retrieve identity papers or search for them. In fact France is far more lenient in its dealing with immigrants.

I also note that the UK never did take up on the same EU law that France did (which caused so many problems for Brits and their health care) about not being a burden on the state you go and live in (can't remember the exact words). That would mean that to get social security money and access to the health system could only be by contributing to the system in the first place.

Anyway why doesn't the UK throw all these blinking French out who live in London taking all the top jobs away from the hard working white ingenious population, why don't people get wound up about them? I wonder if its got anything to do with them being the same colour as us and therefore not so obvious? [;-)]

[Quillan]

[quote user="Richard51"]This makes interesting and rather sobering reading.

[/quote]

And WHAT exactly has it got to do with America what goes on in the EU?

From the article you quote.

"The study for the US Air Force by Leon Perkowski in 2006 found that there were at least 15 million Muslims in the EU, and possibly as many as 23 million."

[5-element]

The French have such a good word for this: AMALGAME, AMALGAME.

[Richard51]

[quote user="Quillan"]

[quote user="Richard51"]This makes interesting and rather sobering reading.

[/quote]

And WHAT exactly has it got to do with America what goes on in the EU?

From the article you quote.

"The study for the US Air Force by Leon Perkowski in 2006 found that there were at least 15 million Muslims in the EU, and possibly as many as 23 million."

[/quote]

Equally, why should you care about immigration levels in the UK?  You don't live there and haven't done so for several years.  The US now have as much right to comment as you do. 

[Panda]

Just to put across the view of someone living in the UK, we have swans on the town lake, no one is eating them. We have fish in the lake, again apart from the obvious anglers no sign of anyone stealing them! We had carols at the nativity, we have competive sport days, my son knows all about christianity as he attends a C of E school, none of this has gone from schools here as is reported in the gutter press for the easily led to believe.... any more ridiculous cliches you want me to check out and ridicule??

For goodness sakes this thread is unreal.. I personnally welcome diversity and dont see why I have any more right that my child is fed and educated than someone coming to the UK (or anywhere else) wanting to work to do the same thing.

[Framboise]

I shall write this as someone of Romany Decent - I will play my Ethnic Card.

If somebody - nay anybody - tried to move into my place whilst I was at the supermarket well I would be flaming hacked-off for a start and rightfully so since it's MY Home, not theirs to move into just because they feel they have the right to do so. They could try of course but I suspect my two Devil Dogs / Status Dogs may deter then from that idea.

Furthermore I know precisely what my Romany Grandad would have done if he had found them in his house. Exactly what he did to the ****s who were trying to steal his rabbits during the War - he gave 'em two barrells of rocksalt in the backside for their trouble and needless to say he never had that again. In France its probably not so much of an issue finding intruders moving into in your place because many homeowners also have a gun or two -legal or othewrwise. Its unwise to take the risk I'd say.

Where I used to live they have a great deal of trouble with Romanians and other eastern europeans killing the swans to eat from Richmond Park, Bushy & Home Parks, as well as the emptying of all the carp from the various lakes and ponds in there. Both are considered great delicacies for which if you can steal 'em, why buy them? (Not swans because they are the Queen's property and NOBODY is allowed to kill them irrespective). It does happen you know.

[krusty]

[quote user="Panda"] I personnally welcome diversity and dont see why I have any more right that my child is fed and educated than someone coming to the UK (or anywhere else) wanting to work to do the same thing.[/quote]

But that is where you are wrong , the words of the man at the start of this thread “I want to work and pay my bills. I don’t want any free money. I just wanted to save money and not pay rent. I don’t earn very much, only about £150 a week.”

He just wanted to not pay rent , should they send him round to yours Panda ?

[mint]

Panda, the voice of reason..........bravo!  Very well spoken.  I don't believe for one moment that people leave their homes, their countries, families and friends just to live illegally in someone else's country, to cheat their systems, to attract the hostility of the natives, to bring the full force of the law on their heads, etc.

They do those things in the full belief that they can lead a better life or indeed any kind of life at all.

[Quillan]

To be honest if I was anti immigrants and read the Mail article the person I would be really angry with is 'Mr Joseph Winset' who is enticing people to come over by offering them houses that he does not own for rent then buggering off with all their money. I doubt he is the only one and I bet some are even more clever and advertising in the places these people come from. They have had all their money, they can't afford to go back home should they wish to and may end up being deported at the UK tax payers expense. So that's who I would be angry with.

As to my comment about the US, if I were you I would be more frightened of the US than I would be of any Muslim, talk about a loose cannon. Don't forget that in the case of Spain most of it was under Muslim rule from between 711ad and 1492ad when King Fernando and Queen Isabel got the last lot out. The EU is bigger than the US and has more power in some ways and is therefore a threat to them. The US has effectively lost its 'sphere of influence' in Europe. To see the EU become destabilised is very much in the Americans interest.

[ebaynut]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

Panda, the voice of reason..........bravo!  Very well spoken.  I don't believe for one moment that people leave their homes, their countries, families and friends just to live illegally in someone else's country, to cheat their systems, to attract the hostility of the natives, to bring the full force of the law on their heads, etc.

They do those things in the full belief that they can lead a better life or indeed any kind of life at all.

[/quote]

Yes indeed, a better life which countless generations of British people have worked to give us.

Why should people whose ancestors did not work hard building a future for their children, come here for what our parents grandparents etc. have worked and died for, and expect the same as us ?????

[ebaynut]

[quote user="Quillan"]

. Don't forget that in the case of Spain most of it was under Muslim rule from between 711ad and 1492ad when King Fernando and Queen Isabel got the last lot out.

[/quote]

Funny you bringing  this up, we were just discussing how relevant this is to the situation in the UK today. [8-)]

[Framboise]

Dodgy landlords are not confined to those offerring accomodation to romanians etc.

The nieces of a friend of ours from USA are taking a gap year and decided they wanted to spend it in London - the hub of Europe they said. They trawled the internet to find a reputable agency in London from where to rent a place for the duration of their stay, choosing a charming little bijou apartment in Islington, they paid their deposit by Banker's Draft as instructed, got their contracts and were even sent a set of keys by mail. They were really looking forward to their Year in London!

These two girls caught their flight over from NY and keys in hand they took a taxi from Heathrow to Islington....................only to discover to their utter horror that although the road existed the house did not. They had been ripped off well and truly for £5,000! (The girl's father was a lawyer who had thoroughly checked out all the documents before the girls signed for the flat, yet they were still turned over by a charlatan). Worst bit was that effectively the two girls were homeless for the night and ended up in a rather grotty hotel until their cousin came back from her holiday and took them in.

It happens to a lot of folk, not just those who don't want to pay rent.

[chessie]

Framboise - sorry about your friend's nieces - but let's not get bogged down by 'personal' experiences.

After all I doubt whether your friend's nieces threw away their passports and couldn't speak English !!

This situation of immigrants coming to the UK for a better life - yeah - great if they were contributing.  But to think you can steal and kill swans, take over someone's home, set up and live in shacks in a public park - what sort of people do that ?   Only those who have turned up to take what they can from the UK - without contributing.    And do not assume that these immigrants have your standards of culture, intelligence, sense of fair-play and tolerance and understanding.   They are out for what they can get;  they have no intention of respecting our ways of life, history, tradition or culture.   They want what they can get...

Contrast that with the situation of Jill Taylor - see www.thefrenchpaper.com of March 2010 - where a UK woman living in France is now in the situation of having no income and faces having her children taken from her.

If she were in the UK just how much money would be thrown at her ?

She's in France - there's nothing much coming her way from France.

Bearing in mind how far the immigrants in the UK have travelled I wonder why they don't stop in Italy, Germany, France or Holland.   It is always the poor old Brits at the end of the line.   We set up a decent welfare system for our own people - which is now being totally abused by immigrant scoungers;  and our ways of life are changing because of the sheer numbers of immigrants who are coming in.

Phil Woolas, the Immigration Idiot, has admitted that even the education of his children has been affected by the sudden large influx of non-english speaking children to their schools.

Even  Polly Toynbee, the Great She Goddess of the Loopy Loony Lefty brigade has admitted that the overwhelming numbers of immigrants (and here she's only talking about the 'known' and 'official' numbers - NOT those who've slipped under the wire) - the Great She-Goddess has admitted that the massive sudden increase in numbers has worked to the disadvantage of the ordinary white working class workers for jobs, housing, education and health care.

The Great She-Goddess has spoken - bow down and worship - would you like to disagree with the words of your Goddess ?

You all make the mistake of thinking these Roma Gypsies, and others, are as good natured, tolerant, generous, understanding, and full of human kindness as yourselves;  that they wish to contribute and enrich our 'diverse and multi-cultural' society.   They DONT - they are after what they can beg, borrow or steal.

Grow up;  stop defending the load of CND commie supporting MPs in Government, who deliberately set on the route to 'change' the UK - it WAS a deliberate plan.   No group of innocents or incompetents could have down the damage that this lot have done.    And if anyone should be carried away by the men in white coats it isn't me - I'm just one of many who is standing up and saying that the way the ordinary white working person has been treated is wrong.  

Why do you wish to see your home country destroyed, and its way of life altered ?  You all shout 'bravo' when the French wine growers protest; when the French farmers burnt - alive - sheep and lambs being imported from the UK;  you think it's wonderful when the French get up off their back-sides and protest against anything they don't like.   Marvellous, great  - they're defending their country and tradition and way of life.   And yet when the Brits even just start talking about their legitimate and reasonable concerns - then  it's a case of 'Oh dear little englander again' - condescending, hypocrital and peculiar outlook isn't it ?

Chessie

[krusty]

chessie, the voice of reason..........bravo!  Very well spoken.