Romanians :Do they try this on in France ?

[chessie]

Panda - those were NOT my words.

They were a definite quote from the Great She-Godess Poly Toynbee.  If it is that phrase which you regard as racist - well then I'm sorry - but I have to tell you that they were from the mouth - and pen - of the Great She-Godess herself !!  

Not Me - not guilty...so that makes PT a racist then ?

Chessie

[velcorin]

I'm with Panda. I took Chessie's posting as racist, defined as discrimating on the grounds of race, colour, or creed. Also, as I hear the same diatribes from my white, middle-class parents and grandparents, I assumed you were from the same socio-economic, generational group. From a personal view point, I have a problem, as you have used such a large brush to paint your picture with, that it includes my wife, and her family. I would like you confirm that is not correct, as I would be offended. If you don't include them, then your arguement is by definition racist, French immigrants good, other immigrants bad. Discrimating on the grounds of race. Maybe you are not a tattooed, shaven-headed, knuckle dragging NF thug, but as you also seem to despise the white working class, I assume not.

On the subject of single mothers. I went to what is considered one of the top 3 Public Schools. I was in the minority. I had 2 parents. I'd guess that 75-80% in my house were from single mother households. Think what that means. Does it mean that UK benefits are SO generous that they can afford to board kids at such an expensive school. Or, is it your short hand for people you despise? Your answer would be? Mass sterilisation? A license to procreate? Babies from unmarried mothers compulsorily adopted? Withdraw all benefits? It's all getting a bit Stalinist for my lily-livered socialist/liberal outlook on life.

Is there anyone you like? Outside of people who agree with you.

PS "feckless idle white working class council living thickos" maybe English isn't your strongest subject, coz that phrase is completely illogical. How can you be idle, and working class? [;-)]

 

[Will]

This is a copy (edited so as not to identify individuals, otherwise verbatim) of a post made at another forum a couple of hours ago today.

"When I arrived in XXX with my husband at the end of November, I

was over 7 months pregnant. The first thing I did was to go to the

social security office to check what my rights were. I had to go there

several times as the ladies were not sure themselves what the procedure

was however they eventually confirmed that with my European Health card,

I was covered 100% during my pregnancy and after the birth at the same

level as French residents are covered. So everything was free.

I

had our baby boy in the maternity in YYY whoch is an excellent

hospital, with individual rooms for all mums, a lot of support from the

midwives and all staff down to the cleaners, we were amazed at the

service there. My baby is fine, he is now 2 months old and thriving, when

I had problems with breastfeeding, I was able to get some help quickly

via RENOAL and La Leche League. I would recommend to anyone to come and

have their child here in France.

There is only one thing that I

missed out on and that is the birth grant (which is around 800 euros

here) because you have to register with the CAF on or before your 5th

month of pregnancy with a special medical certificate from your

gynecologist."

Without passing judgement either way, is this really much different from the Eastern Europeans who allegedly go to Britain to get free NHS care and associated benefits? Perhaps when a British citizen encourages others to come to France for pregnancy care it's just claiming one's European rights, whereas immigrants to Britain are 'sponging off the decent white working-class taxpayers'? (To be fair, the person who wrote the above went on to say that her husband has now found a job - just like the vast majority of Romanians etc go to Britain to find work, the difference being that they wouldn't qualify for benefits until they actually are working).

[Quillan]

I often wondered how people from the EU got on in the UK with regards to benefits and healthcare and Chessies comments spurred me on to have a look and this is what I found.

If you want to know how the NHS deals with people from within and without the EU you can read about it on their website.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_family/health/nhs_charges_for_people_from_abroad.htm

If you want to know how EU citizens are treated regarding permits etc then you may want to read this from the UKBA (and then follow the links for more info).

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/

Interesting to note, which I didn't know before, is that both Bulgarians and Romanians can't work in the UK until they get permission from the UKBA. If you 'mooch' around that website you will find that they do not have the right to claim money from social services until they get their permit. I think its true to say that the 'wheels' in the UK turn very slowly so it could take quite a time before they get their permit. I also noticed on the website that those from the 7 'new' EU member states are, just like in France, treated differently to people who are from states that were members before these 7 joined.

It now seems that the UK has recently accepted the EU law on not being a drain on another EU country because on the link I gave first it says you must be paying NI to get free treatment. If, however, you are treated under the European Health Card system then your home country pays the bill.

Those are the rules/laws how they are implemented but how well they are implemented I cannot say. However I am more inclined to believe whats on these websites than what I read in some of the UK newspapers.

I was amused to discover via the link given about The Daily Mail that Littlejohn does not in fact live in the UK but in Florida. Perhaps he visits the UK a lot to enable him to make the comments that he allegedly does (I have only ever read one of his articles and thought is was a joke or spoof, totally amazed when told it wasn't, never read another after that).

[Swissie]

Why should Britain be multicultural and celebrate diversity? Because it has always been and always has. Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Picts, Jutes, Danish Vikings, Norman (Vikings) - and all that by 1066 -and this is what has always made Great Britain so great. Why should it stop now. My little grandson looks typically Irish, like his dad. He is a mixture of 4 races and about 9 nationalities over past 4 generations. He will never encounter racism though.

[Richard51]

@Swissie

Because it would be better to follow the American model: assimilation rather than multiculturalism.  The latter focusses on differences rather than similarities and creates ghettos.

[ebaynut]

[quote user="Swissie"]Why should Britain be multicultural and celebrate diversity? Because it has always been and always has. Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Picts, Jutes, Danish Vikings, Norman (Vikings) - and all that by 1066 -and this is what has always made Great Britain so great. Why should it stop now. My little grandson looks typically Irish, like his dad. He is a mixture of 4 races and about 9 nationalities over past 4 generations. He will never encounter racism though.
[/quote]

Are you English, by any chance????? [8-)]

[Swissie]

Born and bred in Switzerland, of Huguenot descent - married to a Brit in 1971, spent next 39 years in UK - acquired British nationality. Now back in Switzerland, with British husband, born Cape Town of incredibly mixed heritage, including English grand-father. Daughters and grand-children in UK.

[Swissie]

[quote user="Richard51"]@Swissie

Because it would be better to follow the American model: assimilation rather than multiculturalism.  The latter focusses on differences rather than similarities and creates ghettos.

[/quote]

NOT necessarily - it is possible to keep strong roots and one's cultural identity AND assimilate fully. I lived and taught in Leicester schools for many many years - and we had Indian families who were incredibly well integrated and still had a strong cultural identity. Same for many Poles, and other groups.  Ghettos are often created by rejection and fear. If people can proudly and positively celebrate their 'differences', and share them with other groups, including the indigenous population - this encourages integration, but without this assimilation which turns everybody into nobodies.

[Quillan]

Funny enough these things don't go away. I was just watching a program about TV and Elections and how it influences people. One part was about the 1964 election when the first ever racist slogan was used (by the conservative candidate) which I have encompassed in to the link below. Funny thing is when you see the locals interviewed its almost word for word what has been written by people like Chessie. Dirty people, living off the state, damaging the British way of life, effecting the education of the white kids at school, turn up here and get free houses etc, etc. Anyway I have had to change one word otherwise it won't be shown.

''If you want a n*gger for a neighbour vote Liberal or Labour''

This article is about the racist comment but the program broadcast tonight on BBC 4 was called "How to win an election" which you can view HERE and see what people were saying about immigrants. As I said before, same old story but different nationality.

[ebaynut]

[quote user="Swissie"]Born and bred in Switzerland, of Huguenot descent - married to a Brit in 1971, spent next 39 years in UK - acquired British nationality. Now back in Switzerland, with British husband, born Cape Town of incredibly mixed heritage, including English grand-father. Daughters and grand-children in UK.
[/quote]

So, let me get this right, you are NOT English, you do not live in the UK.  You do not live in France.

So why do you think that you have the right to comment on what should or should not take place in the UK?

Why, because you like multicultural societies, do you think we should we have them forced on us by people of your mindset.

I hate to bring this up but if it had not been for my father and others like him, you all would be talking German in Europe, you would have no history.

But hang on Switzerland, stayed neutral,I recall, but did not mind profiting from stolen Na*i gold. [Www]

[mint]

Yes, Q, on the telly this very minute!

[Swissie]

Ebaynut- this is just so below the belt and quite shameful. I have British nationality and lived, worked and raised a family in England, where I spent 39 years until last March. I currently live 400m from the French border, of French descent. I live in the UK part of the time, and have family and friends in UK, including children and grand-children. So don't tell me I am not entitled to comment on life in UK. Your attack on the Swiss in order to counter my comment can only be called pathetic. Shame on you (and on those Swiss that did use the war to get rich - including my grand-father, whose actions I refuse to be responsible for, sorry).

[woolybanana]

We seem top be talking about the effects of mass migration here, or perhaps, the effects of mass migration forced upon a people without any form of consultation, by politicians too doctrinaire or too yellow to have the debate. And the disastrous effects of multiculturalism which is creating apartheid in our time

[mint]

Swissie, no need to apologise for your origins.  None of us can choose where we are born, into which family, of which race.

To quote one of my favourite poets and songwriters, Grand Corps Malade:

On peut pas vraiment dire qu'on choisit son lieu de naissance

Ce que vont découvrir petit à petite les cinq sens

Moi, un jour mes parents ont posé leurs valises, alors voilà

Ce sont ces trottoirs qu'ont vu mes premiers pas

[Richard51]

[quote user="Swissie"][quote user="Richard51"]@Swissie

Because it would be better to follow the American model: assimilation rather than multiculturalism.  The latter focusses on differences rather than similarities and creates ghettos.

[/quote]

NOT necessarily - it is possible to keep strong roots and one's cultural identity AND assimilate fully. I lived and taught in Leicester schools for many many years - and we had Indian families who were incredibly well integrated and still had a strong cultural identity. Same for many Poles, and other groups.  Ghettos are often created by rejection and fear. If people can proudly and positively celebrate their 'differences', and share them with other groups, including the indigenous population - this encourages integration, but without this assimilation which turns everybody into nobodies.

[/quote]

Not if the cultures, beliefs and family structures are completely different.  Then it just gives rise to misunderstanding, resentment and hatred.  I think many independent commentators are of the opinion that the multicultural approach in the UK of the last 20 years has been a significant factor in the development of fundamental extremism.

[ebaynut]

[quote user="Swissie"]Ebaynut- this is just so below the belt and quite shameful. I have British nationality and lived, worked and raised a family in England, where I spent 39 years until last March. I currently live 400m from the French border, of French descent. I live in the UK part of the time, and have family and friends in UK, including children and grand-children. So don't tell me I am not entitled to comment on life in UK. Your attack on the Swiss in order to counter my comment can only be called pathetic. Shame on you (and on those Swiss that did use the war to get rich - including my grand-father, whose actions I refuse to be responsible for, sorry).
[/quote]

Cripes, how much did Grandad pocket ??????

[mint]

Swissie, please look in your PM box.

[5-element]

Ebaynut - you are way out of line with the unwarranted personal insults towards Swissie, and you should be reported.

[NormanH]

[quote user="Quillan"]

Funny enough these things don't go away. I was just watching a program about TV and Elections and how it influences people. One part was about the 1964 election when the first ever racist slogan was used (by the conservative candidate) which I have encompassed in to the link below. Funny thing is when you see the locals interviewed its almost word for word what has been written by people like Chessie. Dirty people, living off the state, damaging the British way of life, effecting the education of the white kids at school, turn up here and get free houses etc, etc. Anyway I have had to change one word otherwise it won't be shown.

''If you want a n*gger for a neighbour vote Liberal or Labour''

This article is about the racist comment but the program broadcast tonight on BBC 4 was called "How to win an election" which you can view HERE and see what people were saying about immigrants. As I said before, same old story but different nationality.

[/quote]

As I pointed out several pages back:

" the original story come from a right-wing newspaper just before a

British election which is trying to persuade its readership to vote

Conservative, and so is waving all the jingoistic flags about

immigration crime etc."

Now that the result is looking less clear-cut (although I still expect the Tories to win) it will get nastier as the rabid right resorts to these sorts of smears and black propaganda.

To go back to the original question (which I suspect was really an attempt to stir up just the sort of comments  we have suffered in this thread)  I have not seen any reports of Romanian squatters in houses in France, although there are some encampments of Roma from Romania and former Yugoslavia  near large towns.  Remember In the Time of the Gypsies ?)

There is an accommodation problem in French cities  (which I touched on, together with some of the initiatives to solve it in an earlier post) and there is some squatting.

The closest personal experiences I have of that in France is a studio next door  which was illegally sublet by a French lodger to 4 Senegalese  men after he had removed all the furniture leaving without even a  mattress to sleep on, (the problem was resolved by discussion) and a dilapidated English-owned  'holiday home' in my quarter which was occupied by some French SDF for a few months.

The owners, who hadn't visited for 18 months said to me that ' we think someone has broken  in, because the front door was smashed in and the fridge has gone', but apart from that they spent the New Year in a drunken haze and went back to the UK, after asking the Mairie to board up the front door..

[Swissie]

Richard - I have no idea where you live and what your experiences are. Personally I lived and taught in Leicester/shire most of my adult life. Unlike some of the northern cities, where immigration often clashed with the destruction of traditional industries and mining- the Leicestershire experience has been vastly differerent and so much more positive. Asians in Leicester (overall) have contributed hugely and have been very successful. They also (mostly) managed to keep their culture AND integrate. No resentment about celebrating Diwali, about the wonderful Golden Mile shops and restaurants, about our Jain Temple, etc. The Inner City working class terrassed streets, abandoned and derelict in the 60s, have sprung back to life, and Asian wealth later travelled into the suburbs. Yes, Leicester is a great example of how it can work.

I will leave it at that now - as little can be gained.

I never knew my grand-father- he died just before I was born. A textile mill owner, he made his fortune selling high quality sport/ski wear and gentlemen clothing- but diverted to selling army uniforms during the war. He made a pretty penny, which was then squandered by my uncle. So NO I did not profit from said trade.Thank you. Could you tell me if you live in the UK or France, and how long you've lived in France if at all. Just for future reference.

[Will]

Many other people would view Leicester as an immigrant ghetto and feel threatened.

Fortunately some of us have a positive view of immigration, however naive and foolhardy that may seem to those with suspicious minds.

[Russethouse]

 As I have said before, surely anyone who has the slightest interest in family history will know that many very English looking families of today have immigrant ancestors.

If I go down my mothers line I don't have to go too far before I discover Germans ( Prussians actually) who went to live in London at a time when there was a size-able German community there. No doubt there was a lot of chat about them too.

Likewise in my husbands line there are French Huguenots (like Swissie), who escaped via Switzerland and then the  Low countries.

We've always had immigrants and we've always complained about it !!!

[Richard51]

From Wikipedia (and a pretty accurate summary I would say).  It explains the different experiences with regard to North v South (UK) and between the relative integration seen in different ethnic groups.  The problem is (as with many western 'efforts' at cross cultural interactions / decisions) - they never bother to try to understand the cultures first.  They just firefight afterwards.

Ps it's MRS R51

Integration of Kashmiri Pakistanis

Around half of the British Pakistanis living in Britain can trace their origins to Mirpur in Azad Kashmir, which was the site of the Mangla Dam, which was built in the 1960s and flooded the surrounding farmland. Mirpur is a conservative district, even by Pakistani standards and rural life here has not changed much over the years. Families are not only a source of rigid hierarchies, but also the guiding influence behind everything from marriage to business.^[18]

This has clashed with British values, in which people tend to be more

independent and liberal. As a result, some Pakistanis live in secluded

areas, and thus the rise of ghettos

in those communities. New research shows that the population of these

mostly inner city communities has been rising very fast, a sure way to

avoid cross-cultural contact. It seems to be the route taken by some

people of Pakistani origin. There are statistics which suggest that of

all communities, Mirpuri Pakistanis live in the most segregated areas

of Britain, and their children attend the most segregated schools. The

British government has dedicated itself to integrating immigrants,

providing some kind of shared identity which Pakistanis could learn to

accept. One plan includes the busing of Pakistani background students

to "white schools" in an attempt to bridge the divide between the

British public and Pakistanis.^[19]

Most Kashmiri people are proud of their heritage. Many have named

their businesses after the Pakistani area, a most notable example is Kashmir Crown Bakeries which is a food making business based in Bradford. The company is a major local employer and is the largest Asian Food Manufacturer in Europe.^[20]

The owner of Kashmir Crown Bakeries, Mohammed Saleem, says that

combining traditional Kashmiri Baking methods with vocational British

training has made his Bakery a multi-million pound business.^[21]

Integration of Punjabi Pakistanis

British Punjabis of Pakistani origin make up a third of the British Pakistani population. People who came from the Punjab area of Pakistan (Punjabis) have integrated much more easily into British society

due to the Punjabis more Liberal culture. British Punjabis tend to

reside more in the South of the England, while people of Kashmiri

origin are more commonly found in the West Midlands and North of England.

James Caan and Amir Khan are notable examples of successful Punjabi Pakistanis.

[Gluestick]

I find this thread hugely amusing from a certain perspective: the very posters who are amongst the first to try and dispel misconceptions from newbies to France and wannabees as “Rose Coloured Glasses Syndrome”, suffer the identical same myopic difficulty when they write so passionately about life in the UK now!

 An unfortunate effect of Political Correctness has been the pejorative abuse of English words, such as “Racist”, “Homophobe”, “Fascist”, et al, when commentators are seeking to espouse genuine critique and objective analysis.

 I can never ever comprehend precisely why the Liberal mind seeks to deny clear and unequivocal fact in pursuit of its ideological utopian fantasy.

When even such as “Woy” Hattersley, one of the architects of the dream, a year ago or so, admitted on a BBC interview “We got it wrong!”

 

 Quillan Wrote:

[quote]When London docklands was finished and then divided up and allocated to the local councils my area came under Newham. I believe the percentage of 'indigenous English white people' accounted for well under 30% of the population in the borough. That was some time ago I admit but visiting family I can see that its not changed. These 'immigrants' although some are second and third generation have helped make the area multicultural and a very exciting, vibrant and interesting place to live adding to the culture of the French Huguenots, Jews and other nationalities that came before them. Reading between the lines in the article these events happened in the East End which has always been one of the areas of London where traditionally new immigrants have settled initially going back to the Romans. [/quote]

I love it when proponents of the asinine concepts of “Multiculturalism” and unfettered immigration wax lyrical about such as the Huguenots!

Factoid: the total number of Huguenots who migrated to Britain in the 17^th cent, was 50,000: and 10,000 of these soon migrated again, to Ireland.

Factoid: the total population of Britain at the time was circa 5 million: thus the great Huguenot migration represented just a 1% increase: and soon, many left and went on to America, Ireland and even Germany.

More critically, the Huguenots brought a raft of craft skills and core abilities in other areas of trade and commerce.

“Many of the refugee community were weavers, but naturally some practised other occupations necessary to sustain the community distinct from the indigenous population, this separation being a condition of their initial acceptance in the City.”

Thus their acceptance into Britain was conditional. And they had to undertake to be self-supporting.

They did not, for example, take over whole areas and demand street names be changed to French.

They did not destroy cultural heritage: consider this. Whitechapel, was an Anglican church and churchyard in the heart of London’s East End.

Please see Altab Ali:

http://exploringeastlondon.co.uk/Whitechapel/Whitechapel.htm

Luckily, with protestors including Tracey Emin, the Hibab Arches in Brick Lane have been stalled.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23806415-tracey-emin-leads-protest-at-hijab-gates-plan-for-brick-lane.do

Emin, herself the daughter of a Turkish Cypriot, seems to value British cultural heritage more than idiot politicians!

Factoid:

Census	Foreign-born population	Percentage increase over previous decade	Percentage of total population[2]
1951	2,118,600		4.2
1961	2,573,500	21.5	4.9
1971	3,190,300	24.0	5.8
1981	3,429,100	7.5	6.2
1991	3,835,400	11.8	6.7
2001	4,896,600	27.7	8.3

Since 2001, the numbers have risen dramatically.  Mainly thanks to NuLabour's cynical covert plan.

Factoid: 31.6% of London’s population where born outside Britain: and the segmented data on the boroughs presents further realities: such as this figure rising to 52% for Westminster, and respectively, 48%, 46% 44% 41%, 39% and 38% for Brent, Kensington and Chelsea, Newham, Ealing, Tower Hamlets and Camden.

Factoid: Tower Hamlets and Hackney have the highest rates of housing benefit claimants in the country.

Factoid: The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett.

He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote".

Thus a deliberate covert plan was hatched as a Social Engineering experiment, to break the power of the rightwing for all time.

Neather was one of the hidden architects of this heinous plot.

Thanks to the huge incompetence of the Home Office during the past 20 years, it is carefully and credibly estimated there are circa 1,000,000 failed asylum seekers living illegally in Britain: these include the thousands of violent criminals who were serving time for their crimes and due to be deported: whom the prison service allowed to vanish into the night………..

Then, of course, there are all the illegal migrants as well: and the people trafficked by Albanian, Russian, Lithuanian, Romanian, Chinese Triad, Bulgarian etc gangs.

Interestingly, last Thursday I was attending a formal function in London and at the dinner afterwards, one of my dining companions was a senior customs officer (Preventive) who for some years has been working undercover with Serious Organised Crime squad on drugs gangs:  we enjoyed a very interesting discussion. And, not surprisingly, the same races came up time and again: Bulgarians, Russians, Lithuanians, Albanians, Romanians, Turks,  Nigerians, Chinese etc.

It is not, apparently, the Picts, Scots, Martyrs, Celts etc involved…….

I live, when in UK near the sea: and a new idea has happened: Chinese men and women are destroying the marine ecolife by raping shell fish beds, grabbing anything which can be sold. Local authorities declare they can do nothing: foreshore admin only goes to ¼ mile out.

However, one of the last of our remaining commercial fishermen is now being prosecuted for taking more than quota: whilst, of course, Spanish giant fishing boats have devastated the immediate North Sea and Atlantic.

Now these shellfish beds have existed and been modestly harvested since Roman times: not anymore, they will soon be gone.

Factoid: Prison Population:

Prison population of British nationals: by ethnic group
England & Wales						Percentages
	1996	1997	1998	1999	2000	2001	2002
Males
White	86	86	86	86	86	85	84
Black	11	10	10	10	10	11	11
Asian	2	2	2	2	2	2	3
Chinese and other	1	2	2	2	2	2	2
Total male population
(=100%) (thousands)	48.7	54.3	57.8	56.4	56.2	55.7	59.1
Females
White	84	84	85	85	85	86	84
Black	13	13	12	12	12	12	11
Asian	1	1	1	1	1	1	1
Chinese and other	2	2	3	2	2	2	3
Total female population
(=100%) (thousands)	2.0	2.3	2.6	2.7	2.8	3.0	3.5
Source: Home Office

Population Generally:

White         92.1%

 

Mixed           1.2%

Indian           1.8%

Pakistani      1.3%

Bangladeshi 0.5%

All Asian and

Asian British  4.0%

Black African  1.0% 

Black Caribb.  0.8%

Black Other     0.2%

Source: ONS, Base Datum for Data Set: Census.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23819180-victoria-rush-hour-tube-stabbing-police-question-suspects.do

Transpires, BTW the gang members were all Afro-Caribbean and Somali.

Obviously, another example of Quillan’s “very exciting, vibrant and interesting place to live” perhaps? Certainly exciting.

Street entertainment for tired commuters, one supposes.

Factoid: Three Women a day are having their children abroad: under EU rules, foreign born women, resident in UK can return to their earlier home to have their baby: and the NHS is picking up the tab!

In 2008 and 2009  2,255 foreign born women went abroad to have their babies: paid for by Britain’s NHS. As Mathew Elliot (TaxPayer’s Alliance) stated, “The NHS is meant to protect this country: not finance health tourism abroad!”

Factoid: From April 2011, immigrants from Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, and the Czech Republic will be allowed to claim Job Seeker’s Allowance after just Three Months: as against the 12 month current qualifying period.

Is this so in France, for example?

I just love it when people say “I know a ****anian: I have a drink with him most Thursday evenings. Lovely guy! Just like you and me!”

Well, I could honestly say, “A Nigerian Cardiologist probably saved my life: lovely man. I had lunch with another guy; Nigerian insurance broker, in the Ritz. Charming bloke. Public schoolboy, cultured, articulate; wish more people were like him!”

“I did business many years ago with a Nigerian lady: educated at Benendon and Oxford: a barrister: she spoke just like the Princess Royal on the ‘phone.”

Which then begs the question, are these people prototypical of Nigerians?

Unfortunately, sadly not: as anyone who has had considerable experience of Nigeria and Nigerians will rather quickly advise.

Such Liberal arguments are what is termed Erroneous Syllogism: and cloud honest conclusion: worse, they handicap analysis and generation of essential and urgent socio-economic strategy.

I really do wonder how so many of you Liberals could tear yourselves away from this idyllic utopia.