Romanians :Do they try this on in France ?

[Frederick]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/164597/Romanians-steal-man-s-home

I know people are a bit concerned when travellers pitch up near the village and tend to watch them closely ... But I have never heard of any houses being taken over  in France ?  Is it only in the UK they think they can get a way with this ... ?

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Frederick"]... But I have never heard of any houses being taken over  in France ?  Is it only in the UK they think they can get a way with this ... ? [/quote]

Yes because here they would probably be shot in the face and buried in a field.

Works for me.[:P]

.

[5-element]

I haven't heard of any houses taken over by Roumanians here in France. However a few days ago, I saw a TV programme denouncing the fact that some young Roumanian boys (as young as 10 or 11) were offering themselves in Paris Gare du Nord, for a price. The police is criticised as merely looking on, whereas they are trying to get the pedophiles who use those "services", some of them quite regularly. There were some heartbreaking interviews of the young boys who would go "home" back to a camp in the suburbs in the evenings....

http://www.agoravox.fr/actualites/societe/article/le-scandale-de-la-gare-du-nord-63849

please could a kind moderator tell me what I should do to regain facilities for emoticons and making links live? Thank you :-)

[suein56]

Live link:

http://www.agoravox.fr/actualites/societe/article/le-scandale-de-la-gare-du-nord-63849

Edit: cannot do anything about the emoticons as I can't 'do' them either!

[Dog]

I couldn't open the link but if it's the one I saw on the news in Northampton - they were very brave people. The police go around in threes if you ever see one in that area it is a veritable sink estate -  originally built for London overspill. You wouldn't want to enter the area in daylight.

[NormanH]

Romanians are in a half-way house situation in France.

They are 'new' members of the EU, but don't have all the rights:

For example they can now enter France with just an ID card, but they are only allowed to work in certain poorly paid jobs, and they don't have rights to health cover.

They can however start a business: I know of one who has just set up as an Autoentrepreneur.

Their image is tarnished by the bands of young 'Roms' who are reported as stealing in shops. Even among this community ( strongly discriminated against in Eastern Europe, and massively represented in the extermination camps in WW2) I have met several people whom I trust.

This is not to mention the well-educated middle class who struggle  financially  with daily life, trying to live on around 400 euros a month with prices not that much lower for some commodities than here.

[Swissie]

A unique case - as the Judge said - so should I really condemn a whole nation, because of an isolated case?

My local rag here in Switzerland had an article the other day warning of English and Irish knocking at your door to offer to re-tarmac your drive - do an awful job that falls apart within days - get paid cash and are never seen again. I refuse to condemn the whole British race for that too.

[Chancer]

Frederick.

What you are referring to is plain and simple squatting and it is rife in France, it is not restricted to other nationalities other than perhaps that a large percentage of those living in precarity are immigrants.

It is a massive problem in Paris, there are organised bands that break into vacant properties or unnocupied second homes and replace the locks with those that they had brought with them, then they create a bail and take a deposit and the first months rent from the new tenant. In most but not all cases the tenant is in on the scam but there are some genuine victims.

No matter what preceded it once they are in they have the same rights as a non paying tenant and some of them do indeed pay a nominal rent to the legal owner which further protects and prolongs their position.

There have been several exposés on French TV on this subject, they replied to random ads in les petits annonces and several of them were marchand de sommiers, renting out properties that they had illegally occupied, effectively sub-letting, in one case one woman who had been fighting for years to evict the illegal occupants of her Paris flat found the property on an internet rental site and was able to prove that the squatters had taken several thousand euros of rent from visiting tourists.

My property is at the end of a short terrace, there are two commercial buildings, another property divided into flats at the other end and in the middle are two small corons in a dreadfull state of dilapidation, they have both been squatted since before I purchased 6 years ago so there is little chance of the facades being spruced up.

The only reason that my property had not been squatted was the terrible state that it was in, the last Maire was very pleased that it had been bought and was being done up, he could not believe that I was living in there so I had to show him the tent that I had pitched on the ground floor, he remarked that I was living in conditions that even the squatters had turned their nose up at.

There is a Cité H.L.M. about one kilometer from me in the main town, whenever a property is going to be empty between tenants even for a few days (usually whilst it is being worked on, cleaned up etc) they put up steel security shutters on all doors and windows as a matter of course.

Now that my apartments are taking shape and especially as they will be furnished I am becoming at risk and I dont let anyone other than the Gendarmerie and a Hussier with whom I have an arrangement, know when I go to England and for how long.

France is not a country in which I would want to have a holiday home.

[5-element]

Thank you Sue for the live link. I wonder what happened to our emoticons???

Interesting and informative post, Chancer. A tiny correction though: the right expression is not really "marchands de sommiers" (but it could just as well be!) - it is "marchands de sommeil" (sleep merchants).

As for squatting in Paris and Ile-de-France, there is a lot of it going on - the best known group for it being a well-organised and well publicised group of students, "Jeudi Noir" - very few university students can ever find accommodation on campus in France - the facilities are very few, and often dilapidated, throughout the country. So, Jeudi Noir take over empty property - the advantage they have over Roumanians is that many of them are French, educated, their plight is temporary, so they have a lot of support throughout the community. Romanians have such bad reputation that it must be a no win situationi for them, whatever they do.

[Panda]

A holiday home was 'occupied' for a time right near where I lived.  It was my nearest neighbour and I had never seen anyone in the property apart from the home owners. 

Then they turned up one day to find that the shutters had been forced and the house broken in to, their beds had been slept in and the house had obviously been used for some time, how they came and went without me seeing is very odd but needless to say it caused a lot of distress for the elderly Brit owners.  They never turned back up again whilst they were there and of course I am now back in the UK but according to the gendarmes there had been a spate of this happeining to second homes, I guess an easy target if you need a roof over your head.  They didnt do lots of damage but did steal a few small items.and left the dishes in the sink and general mess around the place!

 

[Chancer]

[quote user="5-element"]Chancer. A tiny correction though: the right expression is not really "marchands de sommiers" (but it could just as well be!) - it is "marchands de sommeil" (sleep merchants). .[/quote]

Thanks 5 element, I am turning into a French Hilda Baker [:D]

[Will]

Nothing to do with squatters, but I noticed on another forum that the French health service, worried about a shortage of doctors, was recruiting in Romania. Le Mans was specifically mentioned - I hope our Coops hasn't scared off all the French doctors.

[5-element]

Not only are Romanian doctors recruited to fill the gaps in the French health service (especially in rural areas where there is a shortage), but French medical students go to Romania to train in medicine, as it is so much cheaper than here, and medical school there is so much easier to get in.

(sorry, one more dead link!)

http://www.france24.com/en/20090126-medical-students-attracted-to-romania-university-cluj-napoca

[mint]

5-e, I have PMed you about something completely different.

As for Romanians, are they the new Poles?  Why does each generation have to find its scapegoat?  I do find this very curious.

[NormanH]

[quote user="5-element"]Not only are Romanian doctors recruited to fill the gaps in the French health service (especially in rural areas where there is a shortage), but French medical students go to Romania to train in medicine, as it is so much cheaper than here, and medical school there is so much easier to get in.

(sorry, one more dead link!)

http://www.france24.com/en/20090126-medical-students-attracted-to-romania-university-cluj-napoca[/quote]

Just as all the young French "kines" I know (5 of them:) were trained in Belgium.

[NormanH]

Romania and Bulgaria became members of the EU  in 2007, so travel became easier.

Poland was already in, so Poles had already begun to go to the UK in search of work

Romanian is a Latin language, close to Italian so Italy and Spain  (and to a lesser extent Portugal) have been natural destinations for Romanians looking to work abroad.

Work in these countries has dried up.

[Quillan]

We have three romainian families living in Quillan, two of the men play for our local rugby team. They all have jobs, speak good French and English and work very hard. Like all immigrants there are good and bad and whilst the bad are always the minority they give the rest a bad name.

[Iceni]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

As for Romanians, are they the new Poles?  Why does each generation have to find its scapegoat?  I do find this very curious.

[/quote]

AFAIK the only Rumanians I have encountered were on Oxford St, begging, about 20 years ago. The method employed was to place a swarthy woman in colourful clothes on a small piece of carpet surrounded by rugrats, usually accompanied by crudely written statement of alleged hardship on a scrap of cardboard. From time to time the rugrats were prodded to encourage grizzling in the hope that gullible passers-by would more easily part with hard earned cash.

Whilst it is probably unfair to cast aspersions on a whole nation based on such limited experience I have nothing else to go on.

John

[Swissie]

The Romanies (Gipsies) of Roumania are a very small and specific group- like the Romanies of Bulgaria, Cszech Republic and indeed France. They have been the victims of countless campaigns to eradicate them (by the Nazis but also many other Governments) - their children were taken away from them to be 'civilized', etc, all over Europe.

They are discriminated against in Eastern Europe, including Roumania, which is the main reason they have come to the UK in large numbers. Their begging tactics, including young children, mothers with babies, and handicapped (perhaps maimed) kids - are indeed despicable. But it is a very complex problem, and certainly one cannot tar the whole Roumanian nation because of this case of squatting, surely. One could discuss what could be done to help prevent exclusion and persecution in Roumania and other Eastern block countries- so they could stay there.

PS  the automatic censorship here is a bit much at times. I wrote the name of the German party at the time of Hitler, and it was censored!

Elsewhere I wrote the name of a female dog, for ... a female dog, and it was ***** too.

[krusty]

How about Lithuanian`s and swans ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1261044/Slaughter-swans-As-carcasses-pile-crude-camps-built-river-banks-residents-frightened-visit-park-Peterborough.html?ITO=1708&referrer=yahoo

[Gluestick]

For me, this is a most illuminating thread: which illustrates how divorced from current experience of Britain most ex pat forum members have become.

Yes, of course, many people in Europe and elsewhere have suffered discrimination: and will continue so to do. And America: and Russia: and Latin America: et al.

Unfortunately, however, Britain, in particular under the insanity of NuLab's cynical political covert strategy of party politics, has suffered a social engineering disaster; as revealed by one Andrew Neather, last year: one of the architects of the scheme.

Allowing all sorts of neer-do-wells to migrate to the UK to take advantage of idiotic social benefit policies, has not only been socially destructive, it has helped to bankrupt the state.

The criminal activities of Romas in Britain has been well covered in the media: including investigative programmes on both BBC and Channel4: both noted for their liberal bias.

Consider this, for example.

What was most sobering, to me, was the police accusing Mr Mosedale - the owner of the property - of racism, since he complained about the squatters claiming social benefits!

And this police attitude is not uncommon. And ignores the stark reality that it is the Mr and Mrs Mosedales (And me!) who are paying the taxes which pay for the police in the first place!

Yes; it is correct and good that we exercise compassion: and sympathy: and humanity.

Not, however, to the point where we destroy the very fabric of our society which allows us the freedom, spare assets and time to do something in practical terms, reflecting such altruistic human character traits.

And sadly, this is the very point Britain is at right now.

 

[NormanH]

1) This thread asks "Romanians :Do they try this on in France ?".

Unless my understanding of the English language has left me in my  several years absence this is not a question about the 'current experience of Britain'. It is a question of what happens in France.

2) To way "The criminal activities of Romas in Britain has been well covered in the

media" is to make exactly the sort of amalgamation (of Roma and Romanians) that leads to racism.

This thread asks about Romanians. It is possible that the OP shared the confusion, but it is simply not right to confound the activities of  a certain part of the Romanian population with all of them.

That being said, I mentioned above that Roms have been discriminated against, and even within that group people should be treated as individuals.

In any case I see no reason to bring nationality into the issue. As was said above this is simple squatting and not forcibly linked to one nation.

It would be much more difficult to get rid of squatters in France than in Britain, especially during the winter 'trêve', so it is a danger and one I have warned of before in threads about long-term letting. People can just stop paying.

.

Changing a word you would have "Allowing all sorts of neer-do-wells to migrate to France to take

advantage of idiotic social benefit policies", and that could cover British people who work on the black but claim APL, or those who hide their wealth by having off shore accounts and claim CMU without declaring their real income.

If course most Brits don't do this, but if one did what has that to do with nationality?

[Quillan]

Well said Norman. I have to say that I wanted to comment on Gluestick's post but didn't because I was so angry.

One thing we do very well us Brits is to blame things on somebody else when they go wrong especially if we have contributed to the problem. I read the article in the link and it seems to me that some English conman has been at work relieving people of their money (in this case all of it) and rented them something that they never owned in the first place. Imagine how you would feel if it happened to you. I noticed no real effort was made to vilify this individual.

As to claims that under Labour immigration as gone up is somewhat farcical. I know from the work my wife has done that the amount of appeals against deportation of immigrants has gone up in leaps and bounds over the last few years. In fact it would be true to say that there is like a whole new industry of solicitors now who specialise in these cases. I could quote statistics but if they don't meet peoples beliefs then they are of course not to be trusted so I won't bother.

When London docklands was finished and then divided up and allocated to the local councils my area came under Newham. I believe the percentage of 'indigenous English white people' accounted for well under 30% of the population in the borough. That was some time ago I admit but visiting family I can see that its not changed. These 'immigrants' although some are second and third generation have helped make the area multicultural and a very exciting, vibrant and interesting place to live adding to the culture of the French Huguenots, Jews and other nationalities that came before them. Reading between the lines in the article these events happened in the East End which has always been one of the areas of London where traditionally new immigrants have settled initially going back to the Romans.

After watching the French documentary on the number of French living in London I am amazed that nobody is complaining about them as well.

[Swissie]

Thank you Norman and Quillan.

[ebaynut]

[quote user="Quillan"]

As to claims that under Labour immigration as gone up is somewhat farcical. [/quote]

I would not be too concerned if your diabetes will entitle you to a few Euros/Pounds off your new glasses if I was you.

If you have been to the UK lately and really believe this statement , you need to get to Specsavers ASAP. [;-)]