TV Licence

[Angie]

We have owned our holiday home for a couple of years now but have finally resorted to bringing a TV over to help with the long, dark winter nights.  We have a DVD/Video player which we have hooked up directly to the TV - we do not have an aeriel so cannot receive any channels.  Should we have to pay for a TV licence.

[powerdesal]

Whether you 'should' have to is debatable, however you 'will' have to.

[Âme]

There is a thread HERE about this question. In short, the answer is that you should have a licence if you have equipment capable of receiving a TV signal.

[Théière]

I am not sure your UK tv will work in france unless it is a modern multi format type.

The UK us the PAL system and France use SECAM.

 

[tj]

[quote user="teapot"]

I am not sure your UK tv will work in france unless it is a modern multi format type.

The UK us the PAL system and France use SECAM.

 

[/quote]

My PAL TV's work just fine?

Isnt technology briliant, with those DVD's and videos been able to tell the difference.

[Martin963]

Even if your British-sourced TV isn't capable of tuning in system L with SECAM colour,   it still has an RF (radio frequency) section,   and I believe that it is the RF that is the clincher.   If you watch DVD's via a *monitor* (without an RF section) you would be within the law.

I know it seems petty,   but then the people who do watch TV without a licence are often extremely cunning and devious,   so unfortunately the laws (both in France and Britain) seem somewhat draconian,   simply because the few who don't play the game have to be "caught" by the legislation.    I don't know the technical situation in your case,  but many people (in Britain) might say "oh we don't have an aerial" and then produce an indoor one as soon as the detector van has left town!   Not everyone needs a roof aerial.   You see the problem.

Far be it from me to give you advice,   but a very effective method of learning/honing French language skills is to watch (simple) French TV programmes with the sub titles activated.   So I'd suggest you pay the licence fee and get it working (or buy a French set if yours doesn't work,   the French one will work with your DVD player from Britain).

Hope that doesn't sound patronising,  it isn't supposed to!

[pachapapa]

Whether the TV is L Secam compatible or not with analogue reception is not the deciding factor.

Is it a TV or not; some years back tried to convince a gentleman in Toulouse that a TV purchased in Argentine with PAL M... no luck at all.

[Martin963]

I don't quite understand.  

I was saying that it didn't matter whether the set was L/SECAM compatible or not because the deciding factor was the presence or absence of an RF section,   which is what I think you are saying too.

Perhaps I didn't word it very well.   Or am I missing something?

[BJSLIV]

I think I know the answer, but.....

Given the French love of Philosophy ....

Is  a 100% PAL television (hence incapable of receiving french TV) really a TV?

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

Does the legislation say an instrument capable of receiving TV or French TV?

And who actually gets the tv licence money? Does a channel get it like the Beeb in the UK, or does it just go in the governments back pocket like every other tax?

[AnOther]

I think possession is all and remember, because you pay the TV licence by default to opt out you have to positively declare that you do not have one so the consequences of being caught could very likely be more severe then if it was just a bill you had forgotten to pay. Also, by opting out you automatically draw attention to yourselves making it more likely you'd be checked up on and I think the finer points of PAL-v-SECAM might be lost in the ensuing legal process or in a courtroom [blink]

You'd probably be safe with a non RF equipped SCART connected monitor and you could get a modest one for the equivalent of  one years TV licence fee.

[Danny]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]

I think I know the answer, but.....

Given the French love of Philosophy ....

Is  a 100% PAL television (hence incapable of receiving french TV) really a TV?

[/quote]well our PAL tv gets French tv but only in B &W - is that really French TV?

Danny

[Danny]

[quote user="LyndaandRichard"]Does the legislation say an instrument capable of receiving TV or French TV?
[/quote]

Sont notamment considérés comme des dispositifs
assimilés, lorsqu’ils sont associés à un écran ou à tout
autre support de vision (écran souple accroché au mur par
exemple), les magnétoscopes, lecteurs ou
lecteurs-enregistreurs de DVD, vidéo-projecteurs équipés
d’un tuner. Les micro-ordinateurs munis d’une carte-
télévision permettant la réception de la télévision ne sont
pas taxables.

So if you only watch tv on your computer and don't have a telly, you don't have to pay
[quote user="LyndaandRichard"]And who actually gets the tv licence money? Does a channel get it like the Beeb in the UK, or does it just go in the governments back pocket like every other tax?[/quote]

La redevance audiovisuelle finance les organismes publics de télévision et de radiodiffusion (France Télévisions, Arte-France, Radio France, RFO, RFI, Institut national de l'audiovisuel).

Une seule redevance par foyer et un paiement commun avec la taxe d'habitation, les mêmes exonérations qu'en matière de taxe d'habitation.
 
En 2008, le tarif de la redevance est de 116 € en métropole et de 74 € dans les départements d'outre-mer

Danny

[Âme]

[quote user="ErnieY"]You'd probably be safe with a non RF equipped SCART connected monitor and you could get a modest one for the equivalent of  one years TV licence fee.[/quote]

I think they've got that set up covered...

ATTENTION : Les magnétoscopes, lecteurs ou lecteurs-enregistreurs de

DVD, video-projecteurs, lorsqu’ils sont équipés d’un tuner et associés

à un écran ou tout autre support de vision sont assimilés à un

téléviseur et donc soumis à la redevance.

CAUTION: Video tape recorders, DVD readers or reader-recorders,

video-projectors, when they are equipped with a tuner and associated

with a screen or any other support of vision are compared to a

television set and thus subjected to the royalty.

source

It looks as if the PC with TV receiver will soon be subject to a licence too. There is no escape! [Www]

[NormanH]

[quote user="Âme"][quote user="ErnieY"]You'd probably be safe with a non RF equipped SCART connected monitor and you could get a modest one for the equivalent of  one years TV licence fee.[/quote]

I think they've got that set up covered...

ATTENTION : Les magnétoscopes, lecteurs ou lecteurs-enregistreurs de

DVD, video-projecteurs, lorsqu’ils sont équipés d’un tuner et associés

à un écran ou tout autre support de vision sont assimilés à un

téléviseur et donc soumis à la redevance.

CAUTION: Video tape recorders, DVD readers or reader-recorders,

video-projectors, when they are equipped with a tuner and associated

with a screen or any other support of vision are compared to a

television set and thus subjected to the royalty.

source

It looks as if the PC with TV receiver will soon be subject to a licence too. There is no escape! [Www]

[/quote]

I think they are already.

I have no TV, but watch on my computer screen. ( Adsl TV with Free)

I have to pay the Redevance

[Danny]

[quote user="Âme"][quote user="ErnieY"]You'd probably be safe with a non RF equipped SCART connected monitor and you could get a modest one for the equivalent of  one years TV licence fee.[/quote]

I think they've got that set up covered...

ATTENTION : Les magnétoscopes, lecteurs ou lecteurs-enregistreurs de DVD, video-projecteurs, lorsqu’ils sont équipés d’un tuner et associés à un écran ou tout autre support de vision sont assimilés à un téléviseur et donc soumis à la redevance.

CAUTION: Video tape recorders, DVD readers or reader-recorders, video-projectors, when they are equipped with a tuner and associated with a screen or any other support of vision are compared to a television set and thus subjected to the royalty.

source

It looks as if the PC with TV receiver will soon be subject to a licence too. There is no escape! [Www]
[/quote]

I found that a bit confusing. I understand it to mean just what erniey said - that it is only if the equipment is equipped with a tuner (RF equipped) it is subject to the 'redevance' So if you use a dvd player without tuner and a monitor without tuner - i.e. the equipment is not able to receive TV - you do not pay.

Danny

PS Do you have a source for the bit about PC with TV receiver? is there a proposal to change it?

[Âme]

Danny, I may be wrong, but my understanding is that DVD/Video recorders have a tuner in them... that tunes to the channels for recording, so even if used with a monitor, rather than a TV, the redevence applies.

The SOURCE in my post mentions the current rules on PC + TV receivers. In the other THREAD Hagar (bottom of page 2) put links to a couple of recent news items about the proposed change in legislation.

[Danny]

[quote user="Âme"]Danny, I may be wrong, but my understanding is that DVD/Video recorders have a tuner in them... that tunes to the channels for recording, so even if used with a monitor, rather than a TV, the redevence applies.

The SOURCE in my post mentions the current rules on PC + TV receivers. In the other THREAD Hagar (bottom of page 2) put links to a couple of recent news items about the proposed change in legislation.


[/quote]

OK Thanks. We have a dvd player without tuner (not a recorder) that was what I meant. Of course we also have a TV so we pay.

[PeteinHeusse]

As I believe Martin has said before, 'there should be a sticky on this', however, a '100% PAL television' is NOT incapable of receiving French TV. Firstly, French digital tv (both via sat and TNT) are transmitted in PAL and when we first moved, our very old, non multi standard Sony tv, received Secam analogue transmissions, albeit in B/W. Therefore, as far as the French authorities are concerned we could receive transmissions and had to pay our licence.

Pete

[Martin963]

Oh dear,   if I haven't got a reputation for nit-picking this'll do it.

To be strictly accurate digital TV (whether British or French) isn't transmitted in either PAL or SECAM,  the colour information is coded in a completely different manner,   part of the MPEG 2 standard.   However,   I can see where the (very minor) confusion arises;   all digital set top boxes convert the digital stream back to RGB and composite  (the latter for those TV's that can't handle RGB) and this composite signal is PAL coded.  

I say PAL coded because even in France it normally defaults to that (if there's even a choice).    Since the late 80's all French TV's have had to be PAL compatible (not necessarily system I) at least via their SCART input,  and the French TNT or TNTparSat boxes I've seen have all defaulted to PAL composite o/p,  with some having the option to switch to SECAM for those TV's still in use that came out of the Ark.    The same compatability edicts weren't issued for British sets which as Pete says often couldn't handle SECAM.    French people with SECAM TV's who aren't using RGB for whatever reason when they watch TNT via an STB just won't notice that the TV is actually displaying a PAL signal,   because the transition is seamless.

But otherwise PeteIH is spot on.

As someone earlier said,   even if your imported set only picks up a kaleidoscope of lines and spots (which is the best a non system L TV will do on an analogue signal delivered from an aerial) you would NOT convince a TV licencing officer that you don't need a licence.

The end of analogue French TV will make our lives a lot easier,  but I shall miss SECAM,   which in spite of anglo-saxon jibes is capable of quite superb colour images provided the reception conditions are good.     It's really only a pain at the studio end,    and under very weak signal conditions.

[Phil & Pat]

[quote user="Martinwatkins"]

... you would NOT convince a TV licencing officer that you don't need a licence.

[/quote]

Purely as a matter of interest, what is the enforcement regime in France?  Do they have licencing officers and detector vans?

[Martin963]

As far as I know the answer is "no" but there again one does hear reports occasionally of check-ups,   I'm not sure if runours of checks in a locality are put about by the authorities periodically to encourage people to have licenses.

But my guess is that the "black crow" is the most effective deterrent.  

Maybe someone else knows for certain....?

[anniefromwales]

http://www.lefigaro.fr/impots/2008/08/20/05003-20080820ARTFIG00446-la-fraude-a-la-redevance-audiovisuelle-en-net-recul-.php

"... concrètement, lors d'un contrôle, l'agent se présente au domicile et vérifie seulement l'absence d'un téléviseur. De janvier à la fin mai 2008, 92 378 foyers ont été contrôlés et 19.054 dégèvements accordés. Sur cette période, environ 16% des contrôles réalisés se sont avérés positifs."

[Martin963]

....which if I've understood correctly means that it's a "non-technical inspection",   ie someone comes along and demands to search the house for the absence of a TV!

[anniefromwales]

yes I think at the moment that's about it.

Many years ago I had a visit from the TV detector people in the UK, they had a look round and found no TV, cos I didn't have one nor a licence, then a few weeks later they sent me a letter saying they would not be prosecuting me on this occasion as they had checked their records and discovered I did in fact have a valid colour TV licence in force ... doh? Let's hope the French make more sense!

Getting the visit was quite scary though, it was one of those situations where even though you know you are in the clear, you somehow get made to feel they know different and you're going to get done.