Astra 2F Discussion Here Please!

[dave21478]

Here in deepest Tarn it still works ok-ish.

Everything is fine, then for reasons unknown, channel 5 and all the related 5 tat....+1, 5usa, 5star etc along with four7 all fade out around 8.30 pm.

Its hardly a disaster though, endless repeats of the same 12 episodes of Grand Designs, non stop NCIS/CSI etc and tedious American sit-coms are not a high viewing priority.

Also some of the CBS channels have become a little blocky on occasion. Judge Judy and Cops occasionally become a bit jerky.....I guess I will cope.

This is all through a cheap 80cm dish and an ancient Panasonic Sky box. In the settings menu, it still shows 100% signal strength and about 90% signal quality on the sliders.

[Quillan]

I know a few people who have that problem with loosing it after a set time at night and apparently the further south you go the time gets earlier. A couple have been told that it is to do with the location of the satellite with reference to the earth and the way the earth 'wobbles'. To change the time of cut off you need to adjust the skew but then that effects the channels that do work and you might not get C5 during the day. Once 2E is launched you may well get the same problem with all the channels. This is all second hand information so it would be interesting to know if it is really the problem and if there is a fix for it as they were told it didn't matter what size dish you had you will still get the problem. I would also like to know why others are saying they don't have this problem and why.

Sky box's will not differentiate between the signal strength of the two satellites so the signal from the current BBC1 etc satellite will show. Mine shows 100% strength and 95% quality but that dos not mean it is the same for the C5 channels but you can't see what those figures are for them. It is the same when you use either a meter or electronic alignment device, they pick up on the stronger of the two satellites as they are so close together.

 

[Martin963]

Depends on your meter or your sat box Quillan.   You are right about Sky boxes (although there is a way of getting them to look at signal strength on a particular transponder,  I think you have to change the default transponder to the one you actually want to measure,  having carefully noted the values so you can put it back again!!! - someone on here will know for certain).

Most sat boxes (other than Sky) will give you strength and quality on individual transponders - normally to be found if you go into manual search and choose the one you want.    My Fransat and TNTsat boxes give it from the ordinary channel change lists.

In my tests yesterday I was using a mid-price satellite meter which allows me to measure any transponder with ease,  hence my comments on 2F actually being stronger in some cases than what was coming in on 1N.

There's always going to come a point where variations in signal strength can't be solved by a bigger dish,  but it's often more a question of economics and practical considerations than anything else.    Certainly I'd be surprised if anywhere in France the fade outs couldn't be solved with a 2 m dish,  but who actually wants one of those cluttering up the place unless it's absolutely necessary.    Certainly the daily fades seem to be more marked on 2F than anything we've seen before in France,   but I know that much the same thing happened in southern Spain on certain 2D transponders so it may simply be that it's "new to us" rather than new new!

There have been rumours that 2F isn't working properly or is wobbling and that this is exacerbating the fades,   but to be honest it seems fairly unlikely that this is actually the case,   and most importantly as far as reception in the British Isles is concerned the signal is romping in,  which is what it was intended to do.   And if there really is a problem Astra will be the last people to tell us,   they are one of the most unnecessarily secretive bunch one could ever hope to meet.   It's all so childish....

[Quillan]

I am also lead to believe, I actually probably read it here somewhere, that the skew is slightly different for 2F. Can you confirm this?

Also many people won't know where to find the frequency of a 2F transponder (say for C5), perhaps if you could, and have the time, you might get them for us on the forum. I would look but for personal reasons I just don't have the time at the moment.

[Martin963]

OK - I'll draw up a list later today.

As to the skew,   my feeling is that 2F is similar to 2A and 2B and 1N.   It was 2D that was the oddity (again never admitted by SES) in that it needed an extra 10 to 20 deg or so of clockwise skew (viewed from in front of the dish) compared to all the others. 

I'll check the official skew value later today,  but again it's something one should actually set using the meters as the markings on the LNB and indeed the mounting of the elements inside it may not correspond with reality.   I had one LNB that was a good 30 deg out,  it wouldn't work properly as marked but twisting it well out of kilter made it as good as any other.

[Quillan]

Many thanks, I am sure many will appreciate you spending the time.

[Martin963]

Well here's a brief summary.

 

I've included the transmission standard (DVB-S or DVB-S2) as S2 is slightly more prone to errors under adverse conditions.    It is expected that the channels on 1N will be transferred to 2E in the summer sometime,   and that 2E will have similar coverage to 2F.  But nothing is certain....

[Martin963]

....except that the nice table I prepared which shows up on Post Preview doesn't show up in reality!!

I've asked Quillan to get it up somehow.   Thanks.

[Martin963]

Well here's the data which once looked smart in a nice table....

Anyone can feel free to tart it up again.

 

freq MHz    Polarisation    Channels    Satellite    Definition    Transmission    Symbol Rate    FEC      

10714    H    channel 4     1N    SD    DVB-S    22000     5/6      

10729    V    channel 4 +1    1N    SD    DVB-S    22000     5/6      

10758    V    ITV 1/2/4    1N    SD    DVB-S    22000     5/6      

10773    H    BBC 1/2/4/Beebies    1N    SD    DVB-S    22000     5/6      

10788    V    BBC 1/2/Parl/radios    1N    SD    DVB-S    22000     5/6      

10803    H    BBC 1/2/radios    1N    SD    DVB-S    22000     5/6      

10818    V    BBC 1 regions/News/CBBC    1N    SD    DVB-S    22000     5/6      

10832    H    ITV 1 regions/ITV 1 HD/ITV 4+1    1N    SD/HD    DVB-S    22000     5/6      

10847    V    BBC 1/2 HD    1N    HD    DVB-S2    23000     2/3      

10891    H    ITV 1 regions/ITV 2+1    1N    SD    DVB-S    22000     5/6      

10906    V    ITV 1 regions ITV 3    1N    SD    DVB-S    22000     5/6      

10936    V    ITV 1 HD regions    1N    HD    DVB-S2    23000     8/9      

10964    H    channel 5    2F    SD    DVB-S    22000     5/6      

10994    H    ITV 1 regions/ITV 1 HD region    2F    SD/HD    DVB-S    22000     5/6      

11023    H    BBC 1 HD regions    2F    HD    DVB-S2    23000     2/3      

11053    H    ITV 1 regions/ITV 1 HD region    2F    SD/HD    DVB-S    22000     5/6      

11126    V    channel 4 HD/4seven    2F    SD/HD    DVB-S    22000     5/6     

[Quillan]

I had a go but it's a nighmare as Martin says, looks good until you post. I do have it in a word file so if you want a better looking list, use the email button (not the PM) and I can send it to you as an attachment.

[pitway]

Couldn't see a way of embeding a picture directly into a post

Jpeg file of info for sat freqs

Edit ...... if all else fails do a search on the forum

[Martin963]

Thanks pitway.

Indeed, one *could* spend lots of time on it.  However,  for those of us who have been on this forum since 1998 (in my case) and who still find ourselves having to struggle with Archant's software,  there comes a "fatigue" limit....

I had a lot of other things to do yesterday (as did Quillan) so I'm grateful that you were able to find the time to find a workaround.

[PaulT]

Thoughts please.....

Travelling over mid May and staying until early August. House has an 80cm dish. Would you bring over a 1m dish or see what happens.

A 1m mesh dish in the UK is about £50 delivered - where and for how much can they be bought for in France.

Thanks

 

Paul

[Pierre ZFP]

Here in Luxembourg I have a 60cm dish and 90% strength and 76% quality.  I would have thought an 80cm dish would be fine anywhere in France and maybe a 1m dish if were in southern Spain

[crabtree]

[quote user="PaulT"]

Thoughts please.....

Travelling over mid May and staying until early August. House has an 80cm dish. Would you bring over a 1m dish or see what happens.

A 1m mesh dish in the UK is about £50 delivered - where and for how much can they be bought for in France.

Thanks

 

Paul

[/quote]

I think you might be on the limit there for an 80cm dish. I am in 24 and 80cm is fine, but heard from a few further south who have gone up to 1m.

If you can get a 1m at a reasonable price, it may worth your while. If not, currently you may only lose a few channels see here for the channels on Astra 2F. All the other channels should be OK for you this year!

[kizpip]

We're in the Gers and have just increased to a 1m dish, having experienced intermittent losses of Ch5 and some HD channels. All now restored. Dish cost 48€90 here http://bfsat.fr/ but hurry I don't think the free delivery is a permanent offer.

[Sprogster]

I am down on the Med in south east France and have lost Channel 4HD with my 1 metre dish, so does not bode well for the other channels when they switch.

[Gyn_Paul]

[quote user="Sprogster"]I am down on the Med in south east France and have lost Channel 4HD with my 1 metre dish, so does not bode well for the other channels when they switch.[/quote]

La Creuse/limousin/more-or-less-in-the-centre

Yes, last night my Panasonic TV (built in freesat) asked to download new channels, and I watched as it ambled up the frequencies and noticed how the top bunch  - which includes Ch4HD - which previously had a signal strength of '5 or 6' now show a rather sad '4'.

I wonder if SES have been trimming F's footprint? - bet Martin knows!

p.

[Martin963]

Wish I did.   Astra SES is one of the most idiotically paranoid and secretive organisation I've ever known.

But watching other discussions it does seem that the signal is going up and down for no apparent reason once one gets away from the target area.

Of course,   anything transmitted in DVB-S2 is more prone to atmospheric attenuation in poor weather than its DVB-S counterpart.   Can't remember which of the new 2Fs are using S2,  but certainly one of them is.....

[Gyn_Paul]

[quote user="Martin963"]Wish I did.   Astra SES is one of the most idiotically paranoid and secretive organisation I've ever known.

But watching other discussions it does seem that the signal is going up and down for no apparent reason once one gets away from the target area.

Of course,   anything transmitted in DVB-S2 is more prone to atmospheric attenuation in poor weather than its DVB-S counterpart.   Can't remember which of the new 2Fs are using S2,  but certainly one of them is.....

[/quote]

DVB-S2 ???   Is that just a posh way of categorizing the upper frequencies?  I was probably looking out the window at the Evesham countryside and dreaming of a pint in the BBC club at that vital moment.... !

p

[Martin963]

Evesham Evesham wherefore art thou....etc etc.   What a magnificent place Wood Norton was,  steeped in all that war time history.

DVB-S2 is like DVB-T2,  a more efficient transmission system which saves about 30% in overall capacity.    It normally (but not always) goes hand in hand with HD boxes,  apart from in France where very few TVs or STBs for DTT have it as the HD channels on DTT (unlike in GB) are conventional DVB-T.

You can use MPEG 4 in either format (ie in S or S2 and T or T2) but when you use MPEG 4 with *2 you do end up with quite a bit more capacity.

10847 and 10936 and 11023 are S2 whereas 10832 and 10994 and 11053 and 11126 are plain DVB-S   (all values MHz).

I've certainly seen Astra 1 S2 channels fade in heavy rain where the plain S stay working.

[Jako]

Especially when transponders move from QPSK to 8PSK. (Quad=4  to 8 phase shift keying )

This can double the transponder capacity in theory, but requires a better signal quality.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

[quote user="kizpip"]We're in the Gers and have just increased to a 1m dish, having experienced intermittent losses of Ch5 and some HD channels. All now restored. Dish cost 48€90 here http://bfsat.fr/ but hurry I don't think the free delivery is a permanent offer.
[/quote]

I've been home this weekend (Dept 65) and it stopped raining enough for me to give things a tweak. We were missing ITV HD, CH5 and some other shonky things we never watch. I "deskewed" the LNB as on the old setup I had to skew it heavily, and managed to get a signal for those missing, but not enough to get an unblocky picture. We got 0% on both strength and quality before and we are no up to around 75% strength but only around 40% quality, so I think a bigger dish is required.

[Jako]

There is a Astra2F reception map created  in google maps where you can see the dish size used by others in Europe : here

Astra2E launch date is currently set for July the 19th from Baikonur.

As there have been quite a few problems with Russian launches recently we should take interest in the launch of the SES-6 satellite from Baikonur next week June the 3th. Another launch failure would definitely postpone  the launch of the Astra2E satellite.

[PaulT]

So what is the current thinking about forthcoming reception by those of you who immerse yourself in things satellistic - do you think that there are big problems ahead that a larger dish will not solve.

Reason for asking is discussing with some neighbours whether to invest in a sat recorder or to hold off until everything has happened.