Worrying article

[Angie]

I hope someone can respond to my concerns without going on the defensive as I love France as much as anyone on here. 

 

I initially came across a comment on this forum (a few months back while searching through some posts) whereby advice was given to keep a bolt hole in the UK which included “as when you return to the UK, as most Brits eventually do”.  This raised concerns – we have had our property for almost 9 years which we visit 6 or 7 times a year, and plan to retire to France in about 5 years time. We definitely could not afford to keep a bolt hole in UK as well as run our French house. 

 

Then over the weekend I saw another long newspaper article on Brits living in France which indicated that a mass exodus was currently underway because living the French dream had become impossible due to the high cost of living, taxes and that Brits were finding themselves in dire straits on their return to the UK, many of whom had just “upped and left” their French properties.

 

As I said, we have owned our house for a while and although I agree that the cost of living has risen significantly in the past 9 years, and that generally things are much more expensive in France i.e. property taxes (ours are double what they are in the UK) and food, other than that I am obviously missing something.  We both have a modest income which will further decrease once we retire, but feel we could live on it.  

 

Is this reported “exodus” true and if so, do you feel its some people's disillusionment with France or something much more worrying?  The article seemed to focus on the retired so don’t think it was due to lack of jobs.

 

Thanks all.

[Jazzer]

Here in the Charente Maritime I have not noticed any large number of people leaving. Some people do leave, but I remember living in a small seaside resort in the Uk, people came to retire, found the place was quieter during the winter months, did not have the network of friends they previously had, and missed their families.They returned to their place of origin.

They say that over here there are 3 main reasons for return-Debt, divorce or death.

We have lived here permanently for the past 7 years and have concentrated on making friends with local French people as much as possible,joining local clubs and associations, supporting the community events etc and have no intention of leaving.

We very much regard this as being our permanent home.

[YCCMB]

There are a few factors which are, obviously, very individual. They won't apply at all to some people, but I'm sure they become more important to many as they get older. Variously, among friends and acquaintances, I've seen them happen over the years we've had a second home in France. Here are a few I've witnessed

-Buying a house which is too isolated

People mostly bought either pre-retirement or for early retirement, and some seem to find eventually that being out in the countryside is isolating and costly. You can't pop out for a loaf or a paper without a car. Given the cost of running a car, this becomes expensive. Added to this is the lack of proximity to neighbours and, if it's a house with plenty of land (a big draw for many people) the increasing burden of maintaining all that land, and as people get older, they find it increasingly difficult to manage.

- Increasing ill health

It's inevitable, I'm afraid. As you get older, you develop more health problems. The compelling argument that France has a wonderful health system can't be ignored, but it has to be weighed against the difficulties of communicating with medical professionals in a foreign language. Some people probably also find that the change to laws regarding health cover for non-French nationals and the need to pay additional top-up insurance begins to eat into limited savings.

- Exchange rate losses

The mass exodus of Brits took place when the Euro was much weaker against the pound. Current exchange rates have diminished the incomes of most whose main/only source of income is in pounds, and inflation has reduced spending power still further

- Loss of the familiar

For some, the isolation from family and friends in the UK eventually becomes too much, especially if grandchildren come into the equation. Then there's the gradual loss of new friends and acquaintances as other people head back. And then there's the fear that, in a couple, one or other may die and the remaining partner may not be able to cope alone in France. Years ago I said (repeatedly) that despite being able to speak French pretty fluently, I'd hate to find myself alone or in a maison de retraite in France. Why? Well, quite simply, as we get older, we want to share memories and past experiences and it's almost impossible to imagine doing that with a bunch of people who have a completely different set of experiences and hence a different frame of reference. In this context, I'd have nothing much in common with my French contemporaries, and I'd find that really hard.

Finally, and the one you seem to have come up against yourself, there's the one that probably encompasses all of the above, as well as being a reason in its own right: uncertainty. The last few years have made many people evaluate their situation and wonder whether, if things don't improve (or if they get worse) they have the resources - financial or otherwise - to stay and cope in France. It seems that many don't want to take that risk. And a large number really did burn their bridges. If I had a pound for all the people who wrote on forums ten years ago "We're moving to France for good" I'd be rich. If I had another pound for every one of those whom I know has subsequently returned to the UK I'd be even richer.

You appear to be in a good situation at present, with a second home in France. If moving to France means you can't afford to keep a place in the UK, then only you know if you are strong enough, financially secure enough and convinced enough that you never want to return, to make the decision to move and not keep a base in the UK.

[Anton Redman]

I do to think we had ever intended to die in France. My

French is best described as adequate but ugly. 

Isabel’s never really progressed passed a selection of nouns sometimes

linked by a verb. We found what we once charming idiosyncrasies when on holiday

escalated into a real nuisance when living full time. We wanted to move

somewhere a car was not essential and once we had taken the decision to move

the UK beaconed.

There has always been a churn amongst people coming to France.

We had a house in France for almost 20 years and between 10 and 5 years ago there

seemed a vast influx of people who had not previously worked in France and

seemed very naive about what you needed to make a go of living in France. People

opening  B &Bs in places littered

with hotels which had closed through lack of business. I think the last straw

for many will have been both the exchange rate say 1.50 when we purchased to

say 1.15 now, and the ever declining percentage of healthcare paid by CPAM. I

think there is a bit of an increase at the moment but nothing to worry about.

[NormanH]

There are still some of us who soldier

on. [:)]

The articles about the costs of living are I feel part of

the 'anti European' feeling which is the flavour of the month at the

moment, and a predictable reaction to the Place in the Sun 

nonsense that was the mode of yesteryear.

If you come as

frequently as you do you must have a realistic idea of the real

costs, which in any case vary tremendously from place to place.

That

said there are certainly people leaving.

I feel that in many

cases it is the fact that living here full-time is different from

making frequent visits.

 Most British immigrants don't speak

French with the same natural ease as they do their own language, and

that limits social contacts. Often people with holiday homes are

charmed by the friendly welcome on their return which of course

quickly dies off when the drudge of everyday life sets in, and the

frustrations of dealing with French bureaucracy show up. Dealing with taxes, health care, and of course illness or death are not the same as wondering which new place  to visit  or whether the neighbour has aired the house before your arrival.

After the interest of improving the property has faded the boredom of having to live day by day in it can set in

A lot of

people have chosen to live in the country, and find that the village

which seemed attractive in the summer sun with people in the streets

and the occasional village fête is a much duller place in the cold

and wet with closed shutters.  Others come as a couple, one of

whom drives or speaks the better French and if that partner dies

first the other is left lonely and isolated.

Even among those who

claim to live here full-time there is a 'honeymoon' period of about

5-7 years full time living, and curiously it is often those who were

most vociferous about how wonderful it is in France who either fade

away invisibly or turn on the place.

How many of those writers and

bloggers who were boring us with their French adventure 7 or 8 years

ago are still here?  Some possibly, but many are not.

All

have their reasons. The most difficult thing for me is that of cultural loneliness. In the UK I often went to theatre concerts and the cinema. Only

the last of these is as readily available in France and there is

very little practice of Amateur Dramatics, though low standard

village choirs murdering French light music of about 30 years ago

abound

I believe my self to be well -read and

knowledgeable about classical music, film, theatre and some aspects

of English thought, such as the ideas of Locke Milton  and the

works of Chaucer or Shakespeare, or the Authorised Version of the

Bible

All this counts for as little in France as it does in the

City of London, but the difference is that my French friends do

have  a similar appreciation of culture to mine, except it is of

their culture, based on an even more limited corpus than mine.

Their references are to Molière,

Voltaire and the Greek and Roman Myths.

As an example when a recent film came

out Alceste à bicylette I said that it was odd that Alceste whom I

know as the heroine of operas by Gluck, Handel and Lully (originally from Euripides of course)  should be

shown as a man.

My friends laughed and said 'mais non,

c'est Alcese...Alceste le Misanthrope de Molière'

I have of course made up for my

ignorance by buying a DVD and watching the Molière play

My French friends replied 'but in

France we don't mix the classical theatre and Films.

A small scale gap but an enormous chasm between those who might have something to share

Then there are the differences of understanding of things like the place of the customer in the scale of things, the problems of dealing with impossible organisations such as Orange or the EDF  and the crushing realisation that you are just another immigrant to the French, albeit one with means. Once they find you aren't even a rich immigrant, just another person struggling on they will lose all interest in you, as they themselves are in a family network which it is assumed you have to support you. If you haven't , hard luck.

So if you can bear cultural isolation and  are sufficiently resourceful to bear the crushing boredom and frustration of life away from your roots then France might be tolerable as a place to live longer term.

[victor]

Norman,

Although we are not English but American, your post could apply to anyone moving to France as an adult.

It serves as a reminder that our lives are composed of stages, with each stage presenting different challanges. Thank you for writing this excellent post!

It covers so much and should be mandatory reading for persons considering moving to another country, especially a country where they have no family contacts.

We have never desired to return to the States; however, as we age, we are preparing to move to a smaller property and a place where we do not have to depend on a car for the necessaries of life. We have also discussed how to proceed when one of us dies.

Victor

[Chancer]

Two really good replies from Norman and Betty, several things they said had me thinking out loud "YES! YES! YES! thats exactly it, if only I were able to express it" so I hope they dont mind but I am going to quote bits of their posts and expand on them.

One thing struck me, if these same comments were voiced on this forum a few years back there would have been an angry rose tinted backlash [;-)]

I came here 8 years ago and always felt like the new boy, however looking back of those that were here then only a couple had been here as long as I have, it had been a rapidly growing Brit invasion centred around and concentrated in a couple of  villages on the WW1 tourist trail, that growth pretty much peaked when I moved here and I think has been negative ever since, most of the people I met or knew of then have returned, some but not all replaced by others from the UK, I think maybe this is the normal turnover so whilst not an exodus what is definitely missing is the influx.

Others would return but are unable to sell their properties which given their valuations based on WW1 tourist income are not appealing or accessible to local buyers.

Other than a couple of well integrated immigrants who all married into French families I am probably one of the longest serving detainees, I only knew a small percentage of the original immigrant population, I knew of the others because those I spoke to only socialised with and spoke about the other ex pats, nowadays I only know a couple of families if they are still here and because I dont mix with them I dont get to hear about or know of the others.

There is a small tea shop (not a salon de thé) beside a tourist monument, it reopens every spring and I go in once then to catch up on the gossip of who has left and who has come, this year even the patrons had changed!

[idun]

Some very good points made. I have just returned from France and I found quite a lot of things to be expensive and I had been warned by friends before I got there.

LOL, NH mentioned speaking french with ease........... well, I speak french with ease, only it is not easy on the ear, although for some strange reason french people seem to find that charming, very strange.

Like Betty I would hate to be in an old folks home in France and I bet my french is not as good as Bettys. In fact I would hate to live anywhere but 'home' in my dotage. And that is from someone is no longer quite in sync with her compatriots. So, once retired, we moved back to get set up in the UK before we were too old.

I have never understood anyone specifically moving to France or any other foreign country to retire to, so being 'older', especially if they do not speak the language really really well. (I do and no way was I going to stay). I have never understood all of the things mentioned that seems to draw so many to France and that is buying in a remote location, with lots of land and sometimes a huge property to look after to boot.

Is the french health system that good????  I never found it remarkable, it was as good as the NHS I'd left behind and similar to what I found when I moved back. Maybe that was where I lived in France, very busy hospitals with waiting times for some things.

And should medical staff  speak 'english', in fact it would worry me if they did. What if they mis translated, they know their job in french, not english.

[Chancer]

My médécin was recommended to me because he spoke English, in fact that put me off, it was the last criteria I had for choosing but I was re-assured that he was trés sympa and I then learnt he was the médécin of some trusted French friends my decision was made.

We have never spoken in English even though it was very hard in the early days but he is very patient and à l'ecoute, an atout in his profession but as rare as rocking horse **** in these parts, he rales to me that he is obliged to speak English to the other UK patients which makes him very uncomfortable, he is worried that he will misinterpret something or more likely they will misinterpret him, I suggested that he practices une depassement d'honoraires when he has to speak English, he took the suggestion seriously.

I had some training recently at the CHU Amiens, first aid, resusciation, cardiac massage, defibrilator use etc, the guy was an excellent trainer, he told me that he has to really impress on medical students to allow the patient to speak (not to interrupt) when doing their diagnoses, that even if only 10% is relevant they are going to bring to you an enormous amount of important information.

I think that its for that reason that learning English is part of their exams, just as it is for a mechanic or hairdresser but I have found that those médécins who are passionate about their vocation and who want to get ahead make great efforts to continue learning English.

[PaulT]

Idun mentioned that she could not understand anyone moving to a foreign country to retire.......

Our original thoughts were to buy a second home in the UK and then move to that when we retired. Sitting in the garden one late May Sunday and the weather was freezing cold the thought was do we want this when we retire, so thoughts went to France.

We purchased a house 20 minutes from shops but decided when we were about to become doddery would move to somewhere with some facilities.

Retirement was to be, and was, when I was 60 and shortly after buying the short one changed the health rules which meant that we had to keep UK residency until I am 65. We bought a house in a cheaper area by the coast and now split our time beween the two.

What will happen when I am 65 we do not now know. We quite enjoy the differences between the two areas our properties are in - just means we have less available money to play with.

There are some Brit neighbours in France who have permanently relocated to France and now never return to the UK and feel they have made exactly the right choice.

I remember some years ago watching a programme on the TV and they interviewed someone who had emigrated to Australia but had returned to the UK. Asked why they had come back the reply was 'because it never rains the sun just shines'.

So perhaps some have returned for financial reasons which could have been different if the UK had joined the Euro and avoided currency exchange others because the grass was not greener whilst others love the life they have and would never contemplate returning to the UK.

As for articles in the media, the journalists have to write something so why not about people returning to the UK - makes better reading than an article on people who love France and would never return.

[YCCMB]

Idun and Chancer both make a point that I've often wondered about.

When I speak to someone in a French company, even when I speak to someone on an "English-speaking helpline", I make a point of asking if it's OK to speak French. I've rarely come across anyone who has refused, and normally they're relieved and delighted to be able to speak French. I don't do it to be big or clever, far from it. My reasoning is simple. If they are speaking their native language, they know exactly what to say and how to say it. I can understand them, and I can ask a question and be fairly confident that the response, if not exhaustive, is at least accurate. It doesn't matter as much if I make mistakes with them in my French, because they can fairly easily fathom what I'm saying.

I've learned over the years that it's not because someone speaks your language that they know what they're saying, and very often accuracy (whether this means accuracy with the language or the facts) can go out of the window.

I'll give you a ferinstance.

A long time ago it was not possible to get 'tinternet on the same basis as the "ligne residence secondaire" for the phone. However, FT/Orange had a vested interest in trying to persuade us to take both. The lady who took my order for the phone tried valiantly to persuade me to take an internet subscription as well. When I asked (in English) if this was on the same start-stop basis as the phone line, she said yes. When I asked, in French, if she could confirm that this meant I could simply phone or e-mail and get the phone and internet started and ended in line with our visits to France, she explained that no, this wasn't possible. I'd either have to pay an annual internet subscription whether I was using it or not, or opt for the other alternative which involved asking for the service to be terminated by writing a LRAR letter (sorry for the slight tautology there) 3 weeks before I wanted the service discontinued. In some cases this would have meant asking for the service to be started AND stopped before I'd even arrived to use it, and I therefore didn't bother. If, however, I'd gone ahead on the basis of her explanation in English, I'd've been saddled with a monthly internet bill.

If you rely on an "English speaking" doctor/lawyer/indian chief, how do you know whether their English is actually up to explaining what you want to know? Yes, you know what you hear, but you haven't a clue whether they're only telling you the bits that their English is up to explaining.

[Pommier]

I agree with the reasons already given (especially grandchildren), but I think that the main reason why so many people are currently returning to the UK is because about 7 or 8 years ago there was a huge influx of British people into France, and they've now got bored and want to move back.

Although prices here have increased recently (and still are, which is scarey!), prices are also rising in the UK, so I can't see a big difference in living costs between the two countries.

As you've already got a holiday home in France, why not come over for an extended winter holiday before deciding whether it's the place you'd prefer to live full time? 

[Patf]

Pommier - I think you've got it right.

We came here 11 years ago and have reached the stage where the physical work involved in looking after our half hectare is just too much. And  starting to get bored because we're toonies at heart.

The big problem, it isn't so simple as french houses aren't easy to sell.

[Chancer]

I have only once in 8 years been asked would I prefer to speak in English or French, an ex Parisen couple speaking flawless English, I asked to speak French despite it being very difficult for me back then, I was so determined to learn.

There have been occasionally others like my médécin who I knew or thought spoke English but I would never dream of asking them, its been like that from day one when I couldnt even ask for a baguette or a beer and make myself understood.

There also have been 2 exceptions where the other party has requested that I speak english as their French wasnt up to my level and their english stronger, both foreign doctors at the Amiens eye hospital, the first one was great and a real nice guy but a lot of French patients refused a second rendezvous with him.

[NormanH]

I think I forgot one other major hurdle, that of humour.

Whether you like or love French humour there is no doubt it is more difficult to share a joke in a foreign language, and that can be very isolating.

I can manage a bit now, even making puns in difficult circumstances but it is often an approximation to what I would have achieved in English.

On the other hand my surgeon tries to show off his English (jokingly) because his wife is an English teacher.

One time I asked him  in front of his students to speak French because I could understand it better than his English (we were still bantering) and he replied  by saying did I think it was wise to question his ability just before a 'toucher rectale' holding up his fist [:-))]

The students didn't know what to make of this and I am sure it isn't in the manuals on bedside manner if such a thing exists in France which I very much doubt [:)]

I realise that I am speaking as a single person and most people are here as couples, but even they can be forced in on themselves by these factors.

[Jazzer]

We have an arrangement with our Doctor. He practices his English on us and we practice our French on him- and the same with our Vet. seems to work well for all of us and both sides are starting to develop humour.

[nectarine]

I'd echo a lot of what has been said. I know a few people who have gone back ... usually the birth of grandchildren which is a great pull, or bereavement. However I know of two ladies who have recently been bereaved and who have decided, for the time being, to stay in France among the friends they know. I'm not aware of any great 'exodus' back to the UK but friends of ours in Spain had to move back because, when they'd moved out many years before they were getting 1/45++ to the pound, and when it plummeted down to a little near parity they had lost one third of their pension income and just couldn't stay. They, and many more of their friends, had to go home.

I'd never say never, everyone's circumstances are different and in difficult times having one's family close by is a great comfort, which is maybe why in later years some people go back to the UK.

[Judith]

I think much of the "stay or go" argument depends on:

- language ability

- why you came to France, and does that reason still exist

- how much you really, honestly, like France

- whether you have made friends in both the French and English communities (yes, like many we said we wanted to be in the French community, but for many of the reasons already given, we found that we also made English friends, and it sometimes those which would make me stay, as well as the  many things I've done in the French comunbity, which I would  miss....

- what there is pulling you back (eg family changes)

But it is all completely according to the individual's own desires ... so nothing anyone says can really make the decision for you ...

That said, we do know of people leaving, but also more come ... But this is a very big holiday as well as permanent area.. so maybe down here is not so typical.

The best suggestion I've seen  so far is to come for the winter (which is the killing time).  We have friends who rented for a year, decided, and are now back to buy a  house ... but they saw the whole year round, and made friends in the process.

You have the time to take a decision slowly ... you've already got the house ... done the hard bit ... so take it step by step ... petit à petit ... and see  how it goes first.

And don't believe everything you read in the newspapers (in fact, ignore most of it!)

[Angie]

Thanks you all so very much for your interesting and humorous replies!  I am in awe of those of you who can successfully convey your medical conditions to a doctor in French - I had enough trouble in the builders merchant ordering cement and plasterboard!  Our French isn't bad, but obviously some seriously intense language lessons wouldn't go amiss.

We have lived in a very isolated part of the UK for 35 years, no shops, no transport - in fact our rural village in France is noisier with better facilities so that hasn't really been an issue for us.  However, we would miss our lovely UK neighbours but then again, they are older than us and won't be around forever. 

We have spent many a winter in France, some of which have been warm and sunny and many weeks in autumn and spring whereby its rained so hard we haven't been able to step outside for days on end.  Even the recent summers have been a bit iffy.  

As mentioned in one of the posts, I agree that one of the things which scares me the most is when one of us dies, probably the same as it would if we stayed in the UK, but obviously we'd have the support of our family and would have the familiarity of the procedures.  A friend in France who's husband died suddenly last year was treated abysmally by every official she had to deal with, which frankly shocked me. Absolutely no compassion from the authorities or her French neighbours, but she has decided to stay.  This is one of the cultural differences we'd have to get used to I guess.

What I do think would be worth considering after reading all your replies is downsizing (yes, we bought the large house with loads of land) and perhaps moving out of the mountains and nearer to an airport or major train station to enable us to travel more easily between France and the UK would be a good idea.  Maybe purchasing something smaller/cheaper in France with a small garden would enable us to keep that bolt hole in the UK and obviously a smaller property would require less maintenance.

One reason for wanting to hang onto the French property is that I will definitely miss my busy and stressful job (seriously!) when I retire and frankly would find life in the UK pretty boring if we had to spend all our time there. 

Thanks again for offering advice and for putting things into perspective for us.   I fully agree with most of what has been said and will definitely follow up a lot of the suggestions made here.

[krusty]

Good thread Mary , many interesting postings.

Our reasons for moving out of France were big garden and the cold winters but would not consider going back to the UK.

We rent now here in Cyprus , the cost of gardening and maintenance is included in the rent.

Old age has been mentioned , and from what I have found here there does not appear to be care homes. A lot of elderly Cypriots employ Philipeno young women to look after them.

We are glad we had our time in France .

[Val_2]

You shouldn't take any notice of newspaper articles for a start, sensationalism sells papers and people like nothing more than to read about the misery of others less fortunate which includes people who moved abroad for a new life and are now having to return home. There is a huge difference between having and wanting and as those of us who have lived in France for many many years know, it all boils down to just a few reasons why people decide to move on - no proper investigation was done prior to moving and hence, many have found what they considered their dream home in France to now be nothing more than a drain on reduced finances and boredom setting in with less to do here for those who do not integrate nor speak the language enough. Many people of a certain age group have found themselves with elderly parents needing care and guilt often forces people to return because they feel they owe it to their parents, pensions have decreased over the past few years meaning less money to spend and ever increasing costs do not match up. The birth of grandchildren is something I have seen people return for but they will probably end up becoming unpaid babysitters eventually! Then the problem of death of a spouse (something I know about) leaving people feeling very vulnerable especially women and yearning for some sort of comfort whether it be parents or children still living in the UK, divorce again is another factor especially for a woman left with children and with no hope of a proper job here to support them and then you have those in deep debt due to running a business here and getting caught up in unpayable cotisations if they have a bad year. I have seen many people leave France over the years and its been a mixture of all of those reasons and as for those who bought huge properties with acres of garden to keep manageable,that is also another factor as they get older and less able to do those things easily.

Personally speaking and from just getting back from the UK after several years since the last visit, I know where I prefer to live and its not the UK.

[Sprogster]

Val, your situation is probably different from most forum members and Brits in France, in that you moved to a France at a much younger age and your children live there.

For most Brits who move to France as retirees they leave friends and family behind in the UK.

Betty and Norman have nailed the issue on the head and the only thing I would add is the winter weather in France is not much better than the UK and in some areas in France can be colder. Also the weather in most of Northern Europe seems to be deteriorating to the extent that if it continues I think more retiree Brits will consider venturing further south than France to save on escalating heating bills.

So other than debt, divorce, death, language, boredom and the weather the pull of grandchildren seem to be a common factor often cited my members leaving!

Lastly, if you are going to be dependent on a fairly modest sterling pension income I think it would be prudent to budget at one Euro to the £ to make sure you could afford to survive future likely sterling weakness.

[Val_2]

Yes, I suppose along with Idun when she lived here, I am not the normal brit in France and I came with young children,have worked and run a business here and other normal activities pensioners would not do. I speak though from observation of older people moving here and so many are always on the ferry going back and forth many times per year (no wonder they are skint!) because they would not see grandchildren or their own children otherwise and I do wonder why so many come here in the first place if the grandchildren are already in existance,but then each to their own choice.

The days of TV programmes enticing people to up sticks and move is now long gone and only the really wealthy can afford to do so and buy a decent property that does not command years and years of work and money that has actually left many here in dire poverty because they were in the beginning, bricks and mortar rich from selling up in the UK to fund the french life but we all know how fast that pot soon disappears unless you are working full time to replace it.

My OH always maintained that France was for the wealthy pensioners with no worries each month and a good pension, he was right!

[bixy]

An interesting thread and some very sensible posts. We have known a large number of ex-pats. They are of two types: those that came expecting to find work/set up a business; and retirees. It is the former who have gone back to the UK, for fairly obvious reasons - no research and completely unrealistic expectations. Of the retirees only one couple we know has gone back to the UK and that was not because of any of the reasons discussed above, but because they fell out with he local ex-pat association!

As for the newspaper article - haven't you heard - they make it up.

Patrick

[Val_2]

Fell out with the local ex-pat association?? Who would join such a thing unless they had no self confidence about french life,made no attempt at the language or integration with neighbours and other inhabitants etc. Sounds like a very nasty clique of people to me,running other people's lives for their own purposes and then making life hell so they sell up and go. I have never ever ever heard of an expat association here in Bretagne and hopefully there is never one!