What bills do I have to pay?

[PaulW]

I'm relatively new on here and need to start learning fast about all things French. We should be in a position to purchase our French property next year.

Really simple one this - I hope. What bills will I have to pay once I purchase a property? I know about the obvious:

Mortgage, gas, electric, water bills.

But what about other expenses like the French equivalent to council tax???? And what about buildings and contents insurance?

Once we purchase we will be using the property initially as a holiday home then the plan is to make it our main residence as a retirement home 10 or 15 years down the line.

I'm not too bothered about how much we will pay for each bill at this stage (although any general info on costs would help), I'm more interested on the different bills we would need to pay.

[NormanH]

This might help.

It came from a simple Google search "French Property tax "

http://www.french-property.com/reference/taxation.htm

House and civil responsibility insurance is to be advised

Once you live in France full time you should consider a 'top-up' health Insurance.

[PaulW]

Thanks for that. The website states:

If the property is your second home, even though you may not physically be resident on 1st January, the tax is still payable, provided the property is capable of occupation.

 

So even though we will initially use it as a holiday home, visiting maybe for only 2months throughout any one year, we still have to pay tax d'habitation?

[suein56]

[quote user="PaulW"]So even though we will initially use it as a holiday home, visiting maybe for only 2months throughout any one year, we still have to pay tax d'habitation?[/quote]

Absolutely, and at the full rate.

The French way of thinking is that if you are wealthy enough to be able to afford a second home then you are wealthy enough to be able to pay the associated property taxes.

Sue

[NormanH]

If you live in the country or a village with few services the taxes are likely to be quite light.

In a sizeable town however they can add up. I pay about 850 for TF and 700 for the TdH as I don't have a TV (the license fee is iincluded in the TdH)

Note also that if you rent it out you may become liable to other taxes

http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/working-in-france/letting-property/rates-payable/

[PaulW]

OK that's the TF and tdH. Anything else?

[NormanH]

Some places give a small separate bill for 'ordures ménagères' rubbish collection and access to the tip etc.

As I said above Insurances, including  Health Top-up (optional but I have it)

I have the impression that you are not yet at pensionable age, but some people who are would find that some things that are free in the UK are not so in France (bus passes, prescription charges over 65 etc)

When and if you become resident you will have to grapple with French taxes.

Other people may think of other things. I have no car so I can't give any information about the costs associated with that.

[YCCMB]

TV Licence: It's included in your local taxes, on an opt-out basis, so you have to advise if you don't have a TV. And if you have a TV and don't watch French television, you STILL need a TV Licence.

Water: Of course you'll realise you need to pay it, but it's all metered.

Fuel: you're unlikely to have mains gas, so you need to think about alternatives. Very often this involves either heating oil or bottled gas (the latter for cooking). Gas probably won't come to much for a holiday home. We've just run out of gas from the 2 bottles we bought when we purchased out house a little over 10 years ago, but our cooker is electric and only the hob uses gas. If you don't use oil or electricity for heating (when you are around in Autumn/winter) then you will need to source and buy firewood.

[PaulT]

As has been said, the equivalent of UK Council Tax, Taxe Fonciere and Taxe d'Habitation (my combined inc TV is less than 1,000 euros).

Water and electricity

House insurance (I am still UK resident and with the way the £ v euro is now find it cheaper to insure via a UK company).

As stated, unless in a large town then gas and / or oil will e via on site storage.

France Telecom / Orange have a scheme whereby you can have the phone suspended when not there. Unless you want Internet then a mobile phone might be cheaper.

[Gardian]

Let me first of all say that I am resident and thus personally unaffected by what I am about to say.

We have Belgian neighbours for whom their place is a 2nd home. Their biggest problem (and I'm certain, expense) is just the sheer cost of maintaining the property.

• Cleaning: think about turning up at 17.00 on Easter Saturday when the place has been empty for 6 mths.
• Swimming pool: may or may not be applicable, but the costs of professional maintenance are desirable, if not essential & not insignificant.
• Garden & surrounds: speaks for itself.
• Exterior painting, plumbing (leaks etc), other general maintenance - you really do need someone 'on call' to regularly inspect and flag up problems.

The difficulty is not just the cost, but more the sourcing of reliable help to deal with the above.  All the things that you take for granted in the UK as things that need doing to your UK property, need doing to a place over here. From what I know of our neighbour's situation and that of other British friends, its a continual problem getting good people to do these things for you.

Some of them you can do yourself of course, but don't underestimate the time required in what you envisage to be leisure time.

All the best.      

[Lehaut]

I can fully agree with Gardian, we are residents too. We cast an eye over three friends properties. The last strong winds we had took off part of the old zinc ridge unit on one house, left unattended, rain would have run through until their next visit (the last time they were here was a year ago). The idea of lots of land always appeals. Two of the places take 4 and 5 hours just to cut/stim the grass when its kept under control! Thats every two weeks in the growing season. You are talking hundreds of euros for a contractor. Falling trees onto other peoples property etc. provoke problems. If you don't keep roadside trees under control, the council will get contractors in and do it for your (we have just done it and charged the individual concerned the full amount!!)

If you want to keep an old house free of damp, you may need to heat it over winter.

If you buy in a town with mains sewerage, there is a separate bill for waste water.

[Alan Zoff]

Lots of useful points above.

One thing that has made a big impact for me since I bought 9 years ago is the cost of visiting. The house is not close to an international airport and, in any event, I usually want to transport stuff for improvements and maintenance. So depending on the type of property and where it is situated, factor in the travel costs.

9 years ago we got around 1.40 euros to the pound with petrol nothing like today's price (diesel wins hands down in France but is still a big expense, as are motorway tolls for me).

There are deals to be had with ferry charges but the demise of Speedferries put an end to the cheapest crossings for us.

Initially we made 4 trips a year. But now it's rarely more than 2. The downside of that is the longer you are away, the more risk of unattended problems developing, or having to pay locals to maintain the place for you. Having a huge leylandii hedge around the place does not help!

Some building materials seem a fair bit pricier than they would be in the UK, albeit in some cases of better quality.

Books - indeed any paper goods, greeting cards, etc - seem a lot more expensive in France.

[mint]

[quote user="Alan Zoff"]Books - indeed any paper goods, greeting cards, etc - seem a lot more expensive in France.[/quote]

AZ, nevermind books and gretting cards, how about luxuries such as FOOD?[:D]

[Lehaut]

Alan Zoff wrote:

Having a huge leylandii hedge around the place does not help!

That was the biggest mistake we ever made, and we only planted 12 as a hedge. 14 years later we chopped them all down to the ground!

[nectarine]

If you're purchasing a property then consider the taxe d'habitation rates. We live just outside a small village with a shop, about four miles from a small town. Friends who live about three miles outside of that same town - but who are considered to be part of that commune - pay considerably more on their base tax rate, purely because they fall within that town's collective area. They don't have any more services than us - we're all on fosses septique - and are definitely out in the countryside as well. But our habitation and fonciere bills are about 2/3 of theirs. Worth thinking about when you are searching.

[PaulW]

Some good points from people. Thanks.

Interesting about how costly it can be just to get to your property from the UK. We've found that it's not just the cost but the availability of flights that can be a problem. We are in NW UK (Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool airports all 1 hour from us) but to find flights down to SW France where we are looking is not always easy, particularly in winter. Doing a long weekend Fri-Sun PM or Mon AM appears impossible to achieve via air.

[mint]

Just to emphasise the difficulty of travelling from NW UK to SW France, the people we bought our present house from reckoned that you couldn't get here in under 24 hours.

What happened was, the man was ill and the wife worked out that it would take their daughter more than 24 hours to get here.  She then thought that if things really got bad, then the daughter would not be able to be by her father's death-bed![:-))]

I know, a bit over-dramatic and extreme, but I suppose people think terrible things in times of illness.

Anyway, that's how we managed to buy a house way outside of our price range. 

[Judith]

[quote user="PaulW"]

Some good points from people. Thanks.

Interesting about how costly it can be just to get to your property from the UK. We've found that it's not just the cost but the availability of flights that can be a problem. We are in NW UK (Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool airports all 1 hour from us) but to find flights down to SW France where we are looking is not always easy, particularly in winter. Doing a long weekend Fri-Sun PM or Mon AM appears impossible to achieve via air.

[/quote]

And also vice versa, if you need to get back in the winter when resident .. you have to pick your location quite carefully!

[EuroTrash]

Unless my memory is playing tricks, when I moved here 7 years ago I hired a van and I budgeted £100 for the return trip, to include fuel and tolls and ferrry (not van hire obviously). It might have come to slightly over that. That was in the days of Speedferries and before fuel prices went through the roof.

These days the same trip probably costs over £100 one way, by car.

[idun]

I remember it being £100 for our return trip, of 2000 miles. And that was an awfully long time ago, I must have been rather young and I'm not any more. Our autoroute costs were at least £100, 7 years ago. I remember as we were doing the trip rather often then. 

[PaulT]

For reasons that I will not go in to we decided that whilst away the grass - ok weeds with a little bit of grass - would grow and we bought a ride on mower and strimmer and normally a few hours on arrival and the place looks tidy.

As for maintenance on the house depends what you buy - buy a wreck and you will be doing a lot of DIY, buy a well maintained house and you will not.

Have not flown over for a few years now but car hire has certainly increased.

Driving - the fastest we have done door to door is about 16 hours, we use Eurotunnel so 35 minutes to cross plus normally on to a shuttle very soon after arriving. Get about 35mph from the car - would probably be higher if not travelling at 70 - 80 mph. Never fill up on the Autoroutes, find supermarkets just off of the autoroutes. Possible to avoid the tolls but probably no savings as lower fuel consumption due to speed changes due to towns and villages and a far slower journey so possibly a hotel stop. Reckon out 896 mile each way costs £250 per leg.

And yes, check the taxes as there a wide variations.