Help needed in filling out my first French Income Tax return..working in England but living in France.

[SteveRR]

Hello everyone. This is my first post here although I have been reading the topics on the forum for a few months now. An appeal for a little bit of help really! I wonder if there is anyone out there who like me might be working in the U.K. but living in France?

To cut a long story short I became resident in France at the beginning of December 2011. Only been here for a short while.I am living in France with my wife & son & we are hopeful of achieving a more relaxed lifestyle over here. I am a recovering cancer patient & I am going for a quieter life although I am keen to remain employed & working. I will, however, be working less hours & my salary is reduced to reflect this.

I am now facing the challenge of completing my first French income tax return. I am really hoping that people here can help me in answering a few basic questions I have to guide me in how I should fill-out the French Income tax forms. My understanding of French is not too bad so I have gone through the forms carefully but I do have a few hopefully sraightforward questions.  

 

 My Background - working exclusively back in the U.K.

My employment situation is very straightforward in that I shall not be working in France. Also, I shall not be performing any work activities whilst physically located in France (including the fact I will not be performing any work on the computer or via the internet whilst located in France). 

I remain employed by my U.K. employer and I will be travelling back to the U.K. every month to perform my work. I will be working in the U.K. only for about 7 days a month. I have consulted with HMRC in the U.K. and they have confirmed that I remain liable to pay full U.K. income tax and in addition I will continue to pay my normal N.I. contributions. HMRC have confirmed a revised tax code to my U.K. employer to reflect this situation.

I believe therefore my U.K. income is tax exempt in France but that nevertheless it should be declared in the correct manner to the French Tax authorities.

Incidentally I have now also been issued with a Worker’s S1 certificate by the U.K. authorities which provides health cover in France for myself & my family whilst we are living in France (subject to top-up insurance). So I should also be exempt from having to pay any social charges in France to fund our health cover.

　

                                      __________________________________________________________________________

　

I have downloaded from the internet the applicable (I hope!) previous year’s French Tax Return forms (i.e. to cover the tax year 2010) and I am doing a dummy run in filling these out to make sure I know what I am doing & that what I am doing is correct! The forms I have downloaded are:

No. 2042 "DECLARATION DES REVENUS 2010"

No. 2047 "DECLARATIONS DES REVENUS ENCAISSES A L’ETRANGER 2010 PAR UN CONTRIBUABLE DOMICILE EN FRANCE"

No. 3916 "DECLARATION PAR UN RESIDENT D’UN COMPTE OUVERT HORS DE FRANCE"

i.e. the three basic tax forms specified under your Frequently Asked Questions Income Tax thread on this forum.

　

My specific questions / queries are as follows (Please Note - for the purpose of these questions I refer to 2011 in the title/content of the particular forms – to hopefully avoid any confusion!):

FORMULAIRE No. 2042 "DECLARATION DES REVENUS 2011"

Question One: (General question)

I presume I should only be declaring my U.K. income from the actual date (last year) when I became resident in France? i.e. in my case the income relevant to the period from the beginning of December 2011 until year end.

Is this correct?

Question two:

On page 3 of the form - 

1I TRAITEMENTS, SALAIRE, PRIME POUR L’EMPLOI, PENSIONS ET RENTES

TRAITEMENTS, SALAIRES

Revenus d’activite…..                                VOUS       CONJOINT        1^st PERS. A CHARGE           2^nd PERS. A CHARGE

(etc.)

(this is the main table of the form to declare "vos revenus")

I presume I should not be entering my U.K. income here as it is tax exempt income in France.

Is this correct?

Question three:

Page 4 of formulaire

8I DIVERS

Personnes domiciliees en France percevant des revenus a l’etranger cf. declaration no 2047

- Revenus exoneres (y compris salaires et primes des detaches a l’etranger) non declares page 3, retenus pour le calcul du tax effectif…..8TI _______

I think this where I should enter my U.K. income (tax emempt in France)  i.e. a suitable entry should be made against box 8TI

Is this correct?

　

FORMULAIRE No. 2047 "DECLARATION DES REVENUS ENCAISSES A L’ETRANGER 2011 PAR UN CONTRIBUABLE DOMICILE EN FRANCE"

Question one:

Pg. 1 of formulaire

1. TRAITEMENTS, SALAIRES, PENSIONS ET RENTES (voir egalement no. VIII p.4)

As with Question two under "No. 2042 "DECLARATION DES REVENUS 2011" I do not think I should enter my U.K. income here as it is tax exempt income in France.

Again is my thinking correct?

Question two:

Pg. 4 of formulaire

VII. REVENUS EXONERES PRIS EN COMPTE POUR LE CALCUL DU TAX EFFECTIF

I believe that I should enter the details of my U.K. income within the table under this particular section.

I this correct?

Question three:

Should the amount of my U.K. National insurance contributions (social contributions in France) be entered & specified anywhere on this form?

I note that under "VII REVENUS EXONERES PRIS EN COMPTE…." it states that amounts entered into the table of "revenus" should exclude social contributions. As previously mentioned I am in possession of a Worker’s S1 certificate which should exclude me from having to paying any social contributions in France.

　

FORMULAIRE no. 3916 "DECLARATION PAR UN RESIDENT D’UN COMPTE OUVERT HORS DE FRANCE"

Question: In my position as an employee working exclusively in the U.K. (who holds a current & valid U.K. bank account into which the salary is paid) should I be completing section 2 or 3 of this form?

(n.b. sections 1. & 4. are obligatory).

Having read this carefully I think it is section 2.2 that I should be filling out but if so I am slightly confused by some of the required entries. For example:

"Forme juridique de votre entreprise" I am an employee – it is not my company. Do I leave this blank?

Numero SIRET: What is this? Do I leave this blank?

Can some please guide me on this?

______________________________________________________________________

　

Any help would be hugely appreciated as funds are a bit tight & would rather do this myself rather than pay an accountant for something I should be able to do with a bit of help from those who have done this sort of thing before. 

I really hope I am not being a nuisance in asking for help but a friend has told me that there should be some kind hearted people on here with good experience of French tax returns! In particular if there is anyone out there in a similar position to myself (i.e. working in the U.K. but living in France & commuting between the two countries) it would be an enormous help to me to have their advice & assistance.

Any help that can be offered would be hugely appreciated.

Very best wishes, Steve

P.S. in the first instance should I contact the local Hotel des Impots or can I just download the latest forms from the French Tax authorities’ website when they are available (end of this month?)? What would you recommend?

　

　

[cooperlola]

I'm afraid that I can't read your post because on this new-style forum I'm unable to move the post back and forth when it's oversized as yours is, for some reason.  Sorry.

However, have you read this?:

 

http://services.completefrance.com/forums/completefrance/cs/forums/1196188/ShowPost.aspx

As a general rule, if something doesn't apply to you, leave it blank.

I personally think that it is best to go to the tax office the first time to get your forms just to let them know you're in the system.  The personalised on-line services will be available to you to use once you've done your first return.

[SteveRR]

Thanks cooperlola. I had the same problem re. forum posts & it turned out to be the updated browser I was using. I normally use google chrome but to be able to read forum posts & to edit and format my above post I had to revert to a more old fashioned browser, Internet Explorer in my case. The moment I did this everything was fine.

Yes, I did have a look at the Forum FAQs on tax returns which is where I obtained all my existing info. from. It was an excellent starting point for me I have to say.

Thanks very much for your response Cooperlola. Nice to speak with you through the written word..

Kind regards, Steve

[cooperlola]

If I quote you, I can read it.  From what I know from the FAQs and doing my own return, I've answered you in red.  If Pickles, Parsnips or Sunday Driver disagree, then they're more likely to be right than I am!!!

[quote user="SteveRR"]

Hello everyone. This is my first post here although I have been reading the topics on the forum for a few months now. An appeal for a little bit of help really! I wonder if there is anyone out there who like me might be working in the U.K. but living in France?

To cut a long story short I became resident in France at the beginning of December 2011. Only been here for a short while.I am living in France with my wife & son & we are hopeful of achieving a more relaxed lifestyle over here. I am a recovering cancer patient & I am going for a quieter life although I am keen to remain employed & working. I will, however, be working less hours & my salary is reduced to reflect this.

I am now facing the challenge of completing my first French income tax return. I am really hoping that people here can help me in answering a few basic questions I have to guide me in how I should fill-out the French Income tax forms. My understanding of French is not too bad so I have gone through the forms carefully but I do have a few hopefully sraightforward questions.  

 

 My Background - working exclusively back in the U.K.

My employment situation is very straightforward in that I shall not be working in France. Also, I shall not be performing any work activities whilst physically located in France (including the fact I will not be performing any work on the computer or via the internet whilst located in France). 

I remain employed by my U.K. employer and I will be travelling back to the U.K. every month to perform my work. I will be working in the U.K. only for about 7 days a month. I have consulted with HMRC in the U.K. and they have confirmed that I remain liable to pay full U.K. income tax and in addition I will continue to pay my normal N.I. contributions. HMRC have confirmed a revised tax code to my U.K. employer to reflect this situation.

I believe therefore my U.K. income is tax exempt in France but that nevertheless it should be declared in the correct manner to the French Tax authorities.

Incidentally I have now also been issued with a Worker’s S1 certificate by the U.K. authorities which provides health cover in France for myself & my family whilst we are living in France (subject to top-up insurance). So I should also be exempt from having to pay any social charges in France to fund our health cover.

　

                                      __________________________________________________________________________

　

I have downloaded from the internet the applicable (I hope!) previous year’s French Tax Return forms (i.e. to cover the tax year 2010) and I am doing a dummy run in filling these out to make sure I know what I am doing & that what I am doing is correct! The forms I have downloaded are:

No. 2042 "DECLARATION DES REVENUS 2010"

No. 2047 "DECLARATIONS DES REVENUS ENCAISSES A L’ETRANGER 2010 PAR UN CONTRIBUABLE DOMICILE EN FRANCE"

No. 3916 "DECLARATION PAR UN RESIDENT D’UN COMPTE OUVERT HORS DE FRANCE"

i.e. the three basic tax forms specified under your Frequently Asked Questions Income Tax thread on this forum.

　

My specific questions / queries are as follows (Please Note - for the purpose of these questions I refer to 2011 in the title/content of the particular forms – to hopefully avoid any confusion!):

FORMULAIRE No. 2042 "DECLARATION DES REVENUS 2011"

Question One: (General question)

I presume I should only be declaring my U.K. income from the actual date (last year) when I became resident in France? i.e. in my case the income relevant to the period from the beginning of December 2011 until year end.

Is this correct? Yes

Question two:

On page 3 of the form - 

1I TRAITEMENTS, SALAIRE, PRIME POUR L’EMPLOI, PENSIONS ET RENTES

TRAITEMENTS, SALAIRES

Revenus d’activite…..                                VOUS       CONJOINT        1^st PERS. A CHARGE           2^nd PERS. A CHARGE

(etc.)

(this is the main table of the form to declare "vos revenus")

I presume I should not be entering my U.K. income here as it is tax exempt income in France.

Is this correct?NO.  You do enter all your relevant income here, no matter where earned.  It's where it goes next which determines where it's taxed. ie, in section 8.

Question three:

Page 4 of formulaire

8I DIVERS

Personnes domiciliees en France percevant des revenus a l’etranger cf. declaration no 2047

- Revenus exoneres (y compris salaires et primes des detaches a l’etranger) non declares page 3, retenus pour le calcul du tax effectif…..8TI _______

I think this where I should enter my U.K. income (tax emempt in France)  i.e. a suitable entry should be made against box 8TI

Is this correct?Yes

　

FORMULAIRE No. 2047 "DECLARATION DES REVENUS ENCAISSES A L’ETRANGER 2011 PAR UN CONTRIBUABLE DOMICILE EN FRANCE"

Question one:

Pg. 1 of formulaire

1. TRAITEMENTS, SALAIRES, PENSIONS ET RENTES (voir egalement no. VIII p.4)

As with Question two under "No. 2042 "DECLARATION DES REVENUS 2011" I do not think I should enter my U.K. income here as it is tax exempt income in France.

Again is my thinking correct?No.  See above

Question two:

Pg. 4 of formulaire

VII. REVENUS EXONERES PRIS EN COMPTE POUR LE CALCUL DU TAX EFFECTIF

I believe that I should enter the details of my U.K. income within the table under this particular section.

I this correct?Yes

Question three:

Should the amount of my U.K. National insurance contributions (social contributions in France) be entered & specified anywhere on this form?

I note that under "VII REVENUS EXONERES PRIS EN COMPTE…." it states that amounts entered into the table of "revenus" should exclude social contributions. As previously mentioned I am in possession of a Worker’s S1 certificate which should exclude me from having to paying any social contributions in France. There's a preamble for this eventuality in the FAQs.

　

FORMULAIRE no. 3916 "DECLARATION PAR UN RESIDENT D’UN COMPTE OUVERT HORS DE FRANCE"

Question: In my position as an employee working exclusively in the U.K. (who holds a current & valid U.K. bank account into which the salary is paid) should I be completing section 2 or 3 of this form?

(n.b. sections 1. & 4. are obligatory).

Having read this carefully I think it is section 2.2 that I should be filling out but if so I am slightly confused by some of the required entries. For example:

"Forme juridique de votre entreprise" I am an employee – it is not my company. Do I leave this blank?Yes

Numero SIRET: What is this? Do I leave this blank?It's a company registration number so yes.

Can some please guide me on this?

______________________________________________________________________

　

Any help would be hugely appreciated as funds are a bit tight & would rather do this myself rather than pay an accountant for something I should be able to do with a bit of help from those who have done this sort of thing before. 

I really hope I am not being a nuisance in asking for help but a friend has told me that there should be some kind hearted people on here with good experience of French tax returns! In particular if there is anyone out there in a similar position to myself (i.e. working in the U.K. but living in France & commuting between the two countries) it would be an enormous help to me to have their advice & assistance.

Any help that can be offered would be hugely appreciated.

Very best wishes, Steve

P.S. in the first instance should I contact the local Hotel des Impots or can I just download the latest forms from the French Tax authorities’ website when they are available (end of this month?)? What would you recommend?

　

　

[/quote]

[Russethouse]

If any one else is having the same problem with Chrome please let me know via PM (please do not take this thread off topic)

Thanks

[AnOther]

I'm your man Steve as I'm in exactly the same position except that this year will be my 5th return so I think I can claim a little experience in the matter. Notwithstanding the vagaries of the different Hotels des Impots you'll be pleased to know that filing in the tax return in these circumstances is about as easy as it gets.

As cooperlola says for your 1st return you have to collect the forms from the Hotel des Impots but I don't think that they have not been published for 2011/2012 yet, if you keep an eye on the forum you'll know when they are because it's always a topic !

Anyway to the forms.

2047 - in section VII enter your gross salary in column 4, the total deductions in column 5, and the net amount at the bottom of column 4 beside Total Á reporter.

2042  - in section 8I Divers enter same net amount in box 8T1.

Everything in Euros of course.

Unless you have other income to declare such as interest/dividends/Premium Bond winnngs etc. etc. then that's it, you're done, yes honestly !

I was shown this by a member of staff at my Impots for my 1st return who kindly not only filled in the forms for me but then photocopied them as examples for the future. I have completed 3 more returns in exactly the same way since and each year I have been rewarded with a devis for €0.00 [:D]

On form 3916 you must give details of any non French bank accounts opened or used in the tax year. You don't actually need the form though as you can declare them on a sheet of paper if you like. I learnt only fairly recently that you are supposed to declare these each year and I must admit that I hadn't been but will again this year.

Unfortunately this will be my last time with such an easy ride as I'm about to retire so for 2012/2013 I shall have to start putting down my pension and other incomes so not looking forward to that one.

You'll find also that nearer the time a lively discussion will fire off about the exchange rate to use and I'll pre-empt it by saying that in in essence there are three possible answers to this:

1. The rate prevailing on the date you actually received the money - this is the 100% correct way.

2. Whatever your Hotel des Impots tell you to use - but get it in writing. No two Impots ever seem to give the same number !

3. Whatever rate you like so long as you can defend it if challenged !

Bonne chance

[parsnips]

Hi,

     AnOther has described the system as it was until last year, and I don't doubt that his was accepted as many tax offices were completely baffled by the changes brought in by the "new" double tax treaty.

      However I have amended his answer which otherwise is correct, in red,.

      If you are in doubt about this , you will find a great deal of coverage on this and other forums.

      Unfortunately , such is the state of some tax offices that you may not find things as straightforward as AnOther has been lucky enough to do.

      I have been completing declarations for myself and others for 19 years. 

[quote user="AnOther"]I'm your man Steve as I'm in exactly the same position except that this year will be my 5th return so I think I can claim a little experience in the matter. Notwithstanding the vagaries of the different Hotels des Impots you'll be pleased to know that filing in the tax return in these circumstances is about as easy as it gets.

As cooperlola says for your 1st return you have to collect the forms from the Hotel des Impots but I don't think that they have not been published for 2011/2012 yet, if you keep an eye on the forum you'll know when they are because it's always a topic !

Anyway to the forms.

2047 - in section VII (VI) enter your gross salary in column 4, the total deductions( inc NI but leave in UK tax) in column 5, and the net amount at the bottom of column 4 beside Total Á reporter.   Also enter UK earnings on page 1.

2042  - in section 8I Divers enter same net amount in box 8T1.(8TK) Enter total earnings  at page 3 .1

Everything in Euros of course.

Unless you have other income to declare such as interest/dividends/Premium Bond winnngs etc. etc. then that's it, you're done, yes honestly !

I was shown this by a member of staff at my Impots for my 1st return who kindly not only filled in the forms for me but then photocopied them as examples for the future. I have completed 3 more returns in exactly the same way since and each year I have been rewarded with a devis for €0.00 [:D]

On form 3916 you must give details of any non French bank accounts opened or used in the tax year. You don't actually need the form though as you can declare them on a sheet of paper if you like. I learnt only fairly recently that you are supposed to declare these each year and I must admit that I hadn't been but will again this year.

Unfortunately this will be my last time with such an easy ride as I'm about to retire so for 2012/2013 I shall have to start putting down my pension and other incomes so not looking forward to that one.

You'll find also that nearer the time a lively discussion will fire off about the exchange rate to use and I'll pre-empt it by saying that in in essence there are three possible answers to this:

1. The rate prevailing on the date you actually received the money - this is the 100% correct way.

2. Whatever your Hotel des Impots tell you to use - but get it in writing. No two Impots ever seem to give the same number !

3. Whatever rate you like so long as you can defend it if challenged !

Bonne chance

[/quote]

[NormanH]

There may well be some heated debate about this, so I jump in to point out that both parsnips and ANO are right depending on where you are.

parsnips describes the modernised version which should be being used, and is in some places.

ANO describes the older version which is supposed to be out of date but which some offices continued to use last year.

As cooperlola suggests the best way is to ask at your local office.

[AnOther]

Thanks for the update Parsnips.

I suspect at the end of the day however or wherever the numbers go down they know they are not going to get any tax out of me so rightly or wrongly just rubber stamp it move on to more profitable customers [;-)]

Beware of asking at the tax office. I tried that in the second year and the English speaking 'expert' told me that I had to pay tax on my already taxed UK PAYE salary and reclaim it from UK !

[SteveRR]

I am amazed and impressed by the speed and quality of your responses. That really is very, very useful indeed. Cooperlola, Another, Parnips & NormanH thank you ever so much for helping me with this one. I really do appreciate it. Hello also to Russethouse.  

Norman, I was about to post something suggesting that, perhaps, Parsnips might be using an updated version of the forms. Which might account for the two small differences between them in terms of the particular section & entry numbers concerned. 

I think I am probably using the same forms as Another however, notwitstanding this being the case, if the French text & description for the Section / individual entry concerned marries up with mine o.k. (as I set out in my first post) then I think we are all in agreement on what should be filled in & where.. I hope that makes sense!

In other words I should be filling in the following:

Form 2047 - Section VII (equivalent to Section VI under the new version of form 2047) which should read "REVENUS EXONERES PRIS EN COMPTE POUR LE CALCUL DU TAX EFFECTIF" or something very similar under the updated form?

Form 2042 - 8TI DIVERS (equivalent to 8TK under the new version of form 2042) which should read "- Revenus exoneres (y compris salaires et primes des detaches a l’etranger) non declares page 3, retenus pour le calcul du tax effectif………….8TI _______" or something similar under the updated form?

Does this make sense Parsnips do you think? Or do the sections/entries you refer to say something different?

                      ___________________________________________________________________________________

As an aside, Parsnips & Another, I notice that under Form 2042 - 8I DIVERS, item 8TI (as above) talks about "Revenus exoneres.......non declares page 3..." 

My only thought on this being that this seems to be saying "Exempt income....not declared on page 3.."   This is why I thought that perhaps I should be not be declaring my income under the main section "1I TRAITEMENTS, SALAIRES, PRIME POUR L'EMPLOI..." on page 3 of the form. 

Sorry to throw that at you but just wanted to check with you on this. I do hear what you are all saying, however, about the need to enter all income under the main section(s) of both the 2042 and 2047 forms and that from experience this is how the forms are filled out. Certainly what you saying in this respect does make perfect sense but just confused by the specific text under 8TI.

Otherwise, as I say, my mind is put at rest by your great responses. I even now know how I think I will sort out the infamous rate of exchange issue!

Thank you all very much!

Steve    

 

 

       

 

[NormanH]

You are having a baptism of fire into the unbelievable facts of life of French administration: often one region or office (or official!) interprets things differently from another, even  supposing that  they are working from the same texte to start with.

parsnips is undoubtedly right about what should be the case (since last year)  and there are new forms in some areas which correspond to what he has posted. You can find a lot more on the Forum if you search which explains how the new system of 'credits' against tax already paid in the UK works.

 However last year I was issued the old style form and filled it in in the old way, despite the fact that it should have already changed, and some others had the same experience. I wait with interest to see which version of the form they send me this year. Logically it should be the new version, and I expect to see that taking over rapidly, but I have learned to do as I am told, and as long as it doesn't disadvantage me I comply.

This is why I suggest either contacting your local office to see which model of form they come up with. You don't have to discuss it with them, just take it and digest it

I did post a link to a spread-sheet that tinabee and I wrote which tries to give an idea of tax liability in France for those of us with mixed incomes, but as you have nothing taxable here that is probably of no interest to you.

[parsnips]

[quote user="SteveRR"]

I am amazed and impressed by the speed and quality of your responses. That really is very, very useful indeed. Cooperlola, Another, Parnips & NormanH thank you ever so much for helping me with this one. I really do appreciate it. Hello also to Russethouse.  

Norman, I was about to post something suggesting that, perhaps, Parsnips might be using an updated version of the forms. Which might account for the two small differences between them in terms of the particular section & entry numbers concerned. 

I think I am probably using the same forms as Another however, notwitstanding this being the case, if the French text & description for the Section / individual entry concerned marries up with mine o.k. (as I set out in my first post) then I think we are all in agreement on what should be filled in & where.. I hope that makes sense!

In other words I should be filling in the following:

Form 2047 - Section VII (equivalent to Section VI under the new version of form 2047) which should read "REVENUS EXONERES PRIS EN COMPTE POUR LE CALCUL DU TAX EFFECTIF" or something very similar under the updated form?

Form 2042 - 8TI DIVERS (equivalent to 8TK under the new version of form 2042) which should read "- Revenus exoneres (y compris salaires et primes des detaches a l’etranger) non declares page 3, retenus pour le calcul du tax effectif………….8TI _______" or something similar under the updated form?

Does this make sense Parsnips do you think? Or do the sections/entries you refer to say something different?

                      ___________________________________________________________________________________

As an aside, Parsnips & Another, I notice that under Form 2042 - 8I DIVERS, item 8TI (as above) talks about "Revenus exoneres.......non declares page 3..." 

My only thought on this being that this seems to be saying "Exempt income....not declared on page 3.."   This is why I thought that perhaps I should be not be declaring my income under the main section "1I TRAITEMENTS, SALAIRES, PRIME POUR L'EMPLOI..." on page 3 of the form. 

Sorry to throw that at you but just wanted to check with you on this. I do hear what you are all saying, however, about the need to enter all income under the main section(s) of both the 2042 and 2047 forms and that from experience this is how the forms are filled out. Certainly what you saying in this respect does make perfect sense but just confused by the specific text under 8TI.

Otherwise, as I say, my mind is put at rest by your great responses. I even now know how I think I will sort out the infamous rate of exchange issue!

Thank you all very much!

Steve    

     

 

[/quote]

Hi, Steve,

    As has been said nothing's simple with french tax.   There is NO NEW VERSION of the forms (unless they bring one out this year).   All the entries which I gave you ---2047 ,VI  and 2042 8TK etc , are to be made on the existing form.   The problem arises because although they had 2 years to adapt the forms to comply with the new treaty, they did nothing , and then last year when the forms went out they issued garbled and badly translated notes from individual offices, some of which were correct and some wrong.  As a result the taxation of people with UK govt. pensions and UK rents was thrown into a chaos  which still continues in some tax areas.

     The note you quote from 8TI is no longer relevant as it refers to the situation under the "old" treaty, and you won't be using 8TI but 8TK.

   

 When you eventually get your tax "avis" (demand) do not assume that it will be anywhere near correct--check it VERY carefully, and if you don't agree with it write or preferably email your objections to the tax office--don't go in person--you then have a written record of their response to use in any subsequent arguments and appeals. 

[SteveRR]

Thanks Norman, I think for me to see the wood from the trees with this I do need to obtain the particular forms that my local Hotel des Impots are using. Otherwise I am second guessing in advance what I am doing with all this. I take on board what you are saying about the new system of tax credits against tax already paid in the U.K. Thinking aloud this, I would imagine, probably explains the differences between the older & new format forms & explains why Another & Parsnips have offered slightly different but nevertheless accurate & correct advice to me.

I have heard of the inconsistencies & vagaries of French bureaucracy from others & I think it is so far living up to expectations..

I think you are offering wise words in suggesting that in my position I should do as I am told as long as it is not to my disadvantage.

I will check with the local Hotel des Impots on the availability of the 2011 forms & take it from there.

Many thanks again to all those who have helped me.

Steve

[SteveRR]

Parsnips, thanks very much for that.

Your response crossed with my last post as we were only a few minutes apart in posting.

I think what you are saying clarifies the situation to me re. the correlation between the treaties and the method of filling out the forms under 2047 VI & 2042 8TK. Thank you. Interesting, also, that Another used the more traditional method of completion last year & it was fine with his local tax office..all part of the fun I guess!?

As mentioned I plan to obtain the forms as soon as available from the local tax office & will take it carefully from there.

Much appreciated, Steve

[NormanH]

Sorry parsnips I misunderstood.

I knew  and had accepted what you you were saying about the new system, but I imagined there were new forms to go with it when in fact it appears there were just new 'notices' (for some people) about how to fill them in.

Thanks for the correction, and sorry if I added to the confusion.

[pachapapa]

The tax return dates were announced by the fisc today.

http://www.20minutes.fr/economie/915777-impot-revenu-dates-oublier

[Mac]

As a first time french tax payer-when can I pick up the forms? I thought to get ahead and went last week to the office in Nontron and was told I couldn't get forms until the first week in May-is that correct? Seems a bit tight to me if I need to return them so soon.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Mac"]As a first time french tax payer-when can I pick up the forms? I thought to get ahead and went last week to the office in Nontron and was told I couldn't get forms until the first week in May-is that correct? Seems a bit tight to me if I need to return them so soon.[/quote]They  are being sent out from the 19th April afaik.    Nothing to stop you printing out a copy of last year's and getting all the figures sorted  then transferring them once Nontron have this year's available.

[AnOther]

Tax deadlines 2012, midnight in all cases.

Paper declarations: Monday 31th May

Online:

Departments 1 to 19 Thursday 7th June

Departments 20 to 49 Thursday 14th June

Departments 50 to 974 Thursday 21st June

[cooperlola]

If you prepare now, I can't think that it will take you three weeks to put a dozen or so figures in the right boxes, Mac. [:)]

[pachapapa]

[quote user="AnOther"]Tax deadlines 2012, midnight in all cases.

Paper declarations: Monday 31th May

Online:

Departments 1 to 19 Thursday 7th June

Departments 20 to 49 Thursday 14th June

Departments 50 to 974 Thursday 21st June

[/quote]

Maybe some non resident french revenue tax payers out there.

Pour les non résidents la date limite de déclaration (en ligne ou papier) est fixée le samedi 30 juin à minuit pour les contribuables résidant en Europe, dans les pays du littoral méditerranéen, en Amérique du Nord et en Afrique et le dimanche 15 juillet à minuit pour ceux résidant dans les autres pays du monde.

[SteveRR]

Many thanks pachapapa. That's very useful to know.

Steve

[CeeJay]

Had mine this morning.....from Montpellier