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parsnips

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Everything posted by parsnips

  1. Hi,
        Maybe my post wasn't clear.

    Sue is correct in what she says .

    What I was pointing out was that , from experience , I have found that when I declared 2019* investment income myself on form 2042 it was correctly  subjected to only the 'legal' 7.5% (which , incidently , is still being disputed at Brussels).  However , where the CSG is taken at source , ie. taxable bank interest, and most glaringly AV euro funds, despite my writing demanding exemption from CSG and CRDS , the full 17.2% was taken in some cases.   I have just submitted a claim for around 500€ CSG and CRDS taken in error. 

      In the case of some AV companies the annual prélèvement of social charges on uncashed gains in euro accounts is tucked away in very small print on the end of year statements. As these deductions do not appear anywhere on the Avis , I worry that some people may have been missing them since they became refundable in 2011.

    (*income from property was subject to the 7.5% from 2018-but I have none. Social charges on non-real estate related income is fully refundable for 2018 income, so I would advise those affected, who haven't claimed, to do so before 31/12/2020)

  2. Hi,
        Last week ,after asking two weeks ago for a progress report on my claim for CSG overpaid in 2015   , I received a letter from the agent who dealt with it (and who wrote to me last January saying it was set to be paid) saying that they would "contact" the paying agency, and clearly  gave them a kick up the backside , because I have now had paid to my account the 5 figure overpayment together with a 4 figure sum of interest.
       I now await developments on my claims for 2016,2017,2018, and my recent claim for reduction of charges  from 17.2% to 7.5% for 2019 (don't forget to check for this -especially if you have AV euro funds which deduct contributions from uncashed gains annually at source and sometimes show them in very small print. )
         The mills of the fisc obviously grind a little slower than those of God!

         Good luck all,
         P.

  3. [quote user="Gardian"]Just in case there are some who aren’t aware of the benefit .......

    As a general rule, you get two thirds of any charitable donation back - straight off the bottom line.

    Thus, just €10 / mth will cost you just €40 for the year. There is a ‘top stop’ of around €500 / p.a. , but cheap for you and good for your chosen charity.[/quote]

    Certain charities (for" personnes en difficulté" - and at present Notre Dame) are reimbursed at 75% -these normally have a limit of 552€ (2020)-Notre Dame 1000€); the Red Cross and Action Contre la faim are two among others in the 75% category , but charity request forms always show the rate somewhere.  Be wary that your charity gives 75% on income tax , as others only give 75% against the IFS.
    The dons to other "organismes d'interet general" and reimbursed at 66% are only limited to 20% of the donor's "revenu net imposable". 

  4. [quote user="Un autre Gallois"][quote user="mint"]
    Oh yes, please, Gallois, do let us know!  I claimed for 2015 at the time but that was refused.  Would be a nice Christmas present if they'd stop pussyfooting around and just give us our money back[:D]

    [/quote]

    Update! Letter received 20/03 AR allowing, in part, claim for income received in 2016 & 2017 together with interest - have yet to see the colour of the money. The original claim for three years included 2015 (within time limit), but that year was rejected by the local office and not passed to the DDFIP "controle expertise"; hence a decision from above has only been given for two of the years. The local office has confirmed today that their original decision given on 11/10/2018 is still valid. I am contemplating taking the matter to the conciliator fiscal - the amount is not earth shattering, but nevertheless worth pursuing, but if there's no more than 50% prospect of winning why start the fight! I recall reading that others on the forum have succeeded in claims for 2015.

    UaG[/quote]

    Hi,
    As I posted here , after submitting a claim for 2015 CSG in 2016 , which was immediately passed by the local office to DGFP ""affaires juridiques" , and after a lot of correspondence over the last 3 years (mostly, I confess, due to some serious errors I made in my declaration for 2015!- problems with online declaring), a very helpful ,and ,I have to say , patient, lady inspectrice ,wrote in January fully conceding  my demand for a 5 figure refund - ( I'm not that rich , but I sold a lot of shares in 2015) .
       I have not yet received the money - but here's hoping!

       Keep at it!

      

  5. Hi,
    I can't see an answer to this question anywhere  among the pipe posts. Here is what I have read in various sources;

      To opt for UK succession law you should see a notaire and have a french will drawn (best to ask for a draft "holograph will" -in english if you prefer - which you can then write in your own handwriting ,and register with the notaire).  You should start the will with the words "In accordance with EU succession regulation 650/2012 (BrusselsIV) I opt for English Law*for the whole of my worldwide assets."  

    *or Scottish or whichever other country may be appropriate.

    You then go on to list your wishes for the disposal of your assets after your death.

    It is vital to remember that making an English Law Will does NOT AFFECT THE OPERATION OF FRENCH SUCCESSION TAX RATES AND ALLOWANCES . 

    This means ,that if ,for example ,you cut out your blood relations , and leave all your assets to a friend or to your mistress, they will have a 60% tax bill on all they receive , if you die french resident.
      Your children , in this example, could bring an action in the french courts, but there is no guarantee that they would win.

      Before doing anything else , find a competent notaire and discuss with him/her.

  6. Hi,
     To be honest I have found this subject very confusing -mainly due to the way they talk about 2019 impots when it is on 2018 revenues.

    I attach a link which gives full details of the prelevements taken from french investments by the holding banks in 2018 and 2019;

      https://www.bforbank.com/mag/impots/2019-taux-prelecvement-sociaux-revenus-epargne.html

       You have to interpret how they apply to UK nationals with S1 and foreign based investments.
    The advice I have seen is to keep claiming ; I have written " je demande remboursement des categories des contributions sociales prises en erreur en 20..," and you can carry on like that - you can be sure that most tax offices will take the full amount , at least for the first few years .
     

      I have yet to see confirmation that the system of 7.5% only for S1 holders will still apply to UK nationals after Brexit .    The description of the concession at present reads that it applies to citizens of the "EU, the EEC, or Switzerland".    This is in contrast to the 40% abattement on IR on foreign investments which applies to countries of the" EU , EEC , Switzerland , or countries (like the UK) which have a tax convention 'anti-fraud ' ". See this link;

    http://leparticulier.lefigaro.fr/article/les-non-affilies-a-la-securite-sociale-doivent-produire-une-attestation-pour-etre-dispenses-de-csg-et-de-crds/

     I have written once to Blevins Franks for an opinion , but got no reply ,and I will resend on this.

    Hope this is slightly clearer than mud!

    Regards.

         

      

  7. Hi Fittersmate,good to be here,

    According to what I have read the 7.5 % was  being applied only to rental income in 2018 - investment income was being charged as normal .  Only for  2019 income  would the 7.5% be applied to all investment income .  So either your income is rental , or a mistake was made .

      In any case , as there is ongoing dispute over the 7.5% , it is worth continuing to put in claims pending further developments. 

  8. Hi,
    Long time no post! (because nothing to report).  Now can report letter received (dated 31/01/2020) conceding full refund of 2015 contributions. Still to be repaid.  Demands for 2016,2017, and now 2018, have been submitted and acknowledged.

    Things seem to be moving at last.

  9. [quote user="woolybanana"]Thank you everyone.

    CT, it is UK and France.[/quote]

    Hi,
        According to the  estates tax double tax treaty of 1963 (see link), no tax is due on a french resident receiving an inheritance from someone who has died UK resident;  so there is no requirement to declare it anywhere in France.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1963/1319/schedules/made

  10. [quote user="Zelanda"]Hi all,

    We are in the stressfull proccess of selling our former home in Uk, as we are living in France.

    I've been reading the French impots gov web and the rules for calculate tax gain are so complicated that I'm getting mad!

    So I have some cuestions that maybe some of you can clarify.

    - How I calculate the gain in € ? Should I take the Pound value at the day we bougth the house (less expenses) Vs the pound value at the day we sell (less expenses)? Because if, the gain in € would be a lot less than in pounds.

    - Can I deduct the 7.5% in buying charges and expenses as standard, even if the fees and taxes I paid in Uk were less than that, or Should I count the amound I really paid in pounds?

    -Can I deduct too the 15% as standard in improvements, because I owned the property for more than 5 years? even if I didn't expend that amoung?

    - Can I have the exception if with the gains I buy a house here in France for living?

    It would be very very grateful if anyone could answer those cuestions, because I have no idea how much coulld we pay in French taxes.

    Regards,[/quote]

    Hi,
       You certainly should use the € value (on the day of purchase) for the purchase price ; and the € value (on the day of sale) for your calculation .    You should also claim the 15% and 7.5% (€ on day of purchase )- which you add to the purchase price  thus reducing the ultimate  gain.
      As for the exception for purchase of a pricipal residence in France , I don't know - you may need to ask the tax office to get  reliable  advice.

  11. [quote user="bkm7"]I can't remember exactly what happened with last years form but when I decided not to complete 2044 then BL on 2042 disappeared. The net result was that I obtained a credit d'impot on impot but was charged CSG and then had to claim a dégrévement. Was thinking for 2020 that I would complete 2044.

    Grateful for any advice.

    B[/quote]

    Hi,
     I have given my advice .

      Judging by some friends' experiences , however you declare at present, some tax offices are  wrongly charging CSG at 17.2% ,or at the new rate for S 1 holders of 7.5% "prélèvement de solidarité" --- both of which are wrong as UK rents are exempted from all french taxes and social charges  (or similar) by the Convention of 2008.    

       If this happens to you , and your demand for dégrévement is refused  (as has happened to a friend of mine) you may have to go through the various appeal procedures .       

     
  12. [quote user="Mac"]Although I can't help you on filling the form in-I'm curious as to why you need to. I rent out our former home in the UK . It's declared in the UK and the figures reported on the two tax forms here. I've never filled in the one you mention. I needed to go to the tax office to check something this year and took my forms with me. The lady going through them could sed that I declared UK income from rental income but she never said I should have filled in another form.[/quote]

    Hi,
    I agree with this: declare only on   form 2047 as income qualifying for exeption by credit (sec 6), and at 4 BE and 4'BK, and 8TK on form 2042 , added to any other exempt income .

  13. Hi,
     I'm still here!

    The answer I gave before was for a police pensioner.  All "fonctionnaires" (police, fire,teachers etc) are covered , and separately non-government employees who get an injury pension via the social services;  any injury pension need not be declared .         ( references; BOI-RSA-PENS-20-10 et 20-20).
    If the disability is rated 40% or above you can claim an extra 0.5 point on the income tax allowance -see the form 2042 page 2 box  P and notes. (you would in that case have to send official "justificatifs".)
     Hope this helps.

  14. [quote user="Hereford"]
    When my mother died we were charged around 7 euros (which the Notaire's staff member had spent to check a list of registered Wills). Other than that as my parents had a C.U. there was nothing to do so charge was zero.  I have to say we were dumbfounded but very pleased.   For complicated reasons there was no house involved but I can imagine that if a name has to be changed on Deeds it could be different.
    The friend without the CU could well be different too.
    We did have to keep reminding the Notaire about the CU which he seemed not all that familiar with! The member of staff clearly never "got it".

    You may have found that the Bank debited a charge - my father was furious as they had nothing to do. It seemed to be for sending a booklet (not wanted or needed) and saying that they could free up money to pay for a funeral - not needed either as my father was able to access what had been the joint account.
    I wish you well, sorting out the details seem to go on forever after a death.
    [/quote]

    Hi,
      When only the transfer of property is involved the bulk of the "fees" are in fact various government taxes and charges .The notaire gets only a relatively small part of them. 

  15. Hi ,

        It is worth noting that even when french resident, a UK police pension remains taxable only in the UK, although it has to be declared in France along with french taxable income  like UK bank interest and french gite rents.  .  The french tax calculated on the whole amount will be reduced by a credit equal to the extra tax calculated on the police pension.   This should result in a low french tax bill.

  16. Hi,

       I think people are possibly misreading this; if you do some research , you will find that the government has already , more or less , accepted defeat and is hastily preparing a substitute tax for future years. 

    Here are extracts from my reply to that long response and  their answer.; 

    "  Bonjour 

      Merci pour votre explication.  Je comprends que ma

    reclamation restera en suspens pour le moment.   Entretemps je

    vais préparer réclamations pour les années 2017 et 2018 (revenus

    de 2016 et 2017). Je pense que j'aurai jusqu'à la fin de 2019

    avant de les soumettre (si ,enfin les prélevements sont jugés

    incompatibles avec le droit UE), ai-je raison ?

    Cordialement,"

    "Rebonjour,

    Effectivement, pour l'impôt sur le revenu mis en recouvrement en

    2017 (revenus 2016), vous avez jusqu'au 31/12/2019 pour émettre

    une réclamation.

    Quant à l'impôt mis en recouvrement en 2018, vous avez jusqu'au

    31/12/2020 pour le faire.

    Cordialement,"

  17. Hi,
       Just received this from legal dept;

    Vous avez fait une réclamation auprès du SIP de Jonzac le

    10/08/2018.

    Cette réclamations vise les prélèvements sociaux appliqués sur vos

    revenus de capitaux mobiliers perçus en 2015 pour lesquels il est

    demandé l'application de la jurisprudence De Ruyter.

    Il convient de vous apporter l'information suivante.

    L'article 24 de la loi n° 2015-1702 du 21/12/2015 du financement de

    la sécurité sociale pour 2016 a entendu tirer les conséquences de la

    jurisprudence de Ruyter en modifiant l'affectation budgétaire des

    prélèvements sociaux assis sur les revenus du capital afin de

    s'assurer la mise en conformité de ces impositions au droit de

    l'Union Européenne à compter du 1er janvier 2016. Désormais, à

    compter de cette date, les prélèvements sociaux dus sur les revenus

    du capital sont affectés à des structures qui financent des

    prestations qui n'entrent pas dans le champ d'application de la

    réglementation communautaire de coordination des systèmes de

    Sécurité sociale; mais ils servent des prestations destinées à

    garantir à leurs bénéficiaires un revenu minimal de subsistance, et

    dont l'attribution n'est pas réservée à des personnes affiliées à la

    Sécurité sociale en France. Les réclamations formulées devraient

    donc faire, au fond, l'objet d'un rejet.

    Toutefois la compatibilité  des impôts en cause avec le droit de

    l'Union européenne est actuellement contestée.

    Le Tribunal Administratif de Strasbourg, dans une décision rendue le

    11 juillet 2017, a jugé que les changements d'affectation budgétaire

    opérés laissaient subsister un lien direct et suffisamment pertinent

    avec certaines branches de la sécurité sociale, ce qui rendait le

    nouveau dispositif français contraire au principe d'unicité énoncé

    au règlement européen.

    Dans l'arrêt rendu le 31 mai 2018, la Cour Administrative d'Appel

    (CAA) de Nancy a pour l'essentiel confirmé le jugement du Tribunal

    Administratif  de Strasbourg en jugeant en particulier que la

    fraction des prélèvements sociaux affectés au Fonds de Solidarité

    Vieillesse (FSV) et à la Caisse d'Amortissement de la Dette Sociale

    (CADES) étaient contraires au droit de l'Union Européenne, pour les

    personnes affiliées à la sécurité sociale dans un autre Etat membre.

    La CAA a en revanche sollicité l'arbitrage de la CJCE s'agissant des

    seules contributions affectées à la Caisse nationale de solidarité

    pour l'autonomie.

    Le ministre de l'action et des comptes publics s'est pourvu en

    cassation le 31 juillet 2018 contre l'arrêt de la CAA.

    En conséquence, dans l'attente des suites qui seront données à

    ces recours, le traitement des réclamations reposant sur cette

    problématique, est suspendu pour l'instant et jusqu'à nouvel

    ordre.

    Je reste à votre disposition pour tout renseignement complémentaire.

    Recevez mes sincères salutations,

  18. Hi,
            Update;  receipt of my demand was acknowledged by local office  12/10/2018;  16/10/2018 I was advised it had been passed to the legal dept. at La Rochelle; nothing received since then  - which I cautiously take as a good sign . 

  19. Hi,
         You need to give more detail ;  On what income were french social charges levied?    Has he declared any investment income or savings interest in France? Has your father worked in France?
  20. Hi,

    Yes , email ,via the messagerie on your personal impot account is the way to go ;  you get an incontestable proof of reception and a record of what you said , and how they replied;which you can download  and print.

  21. Hi,

      I have only just caught up  with this news, but I have found the link below which quotes details and references for the decision of the court.  I am going to renew my application for 2015 immediately and then start work on later years.  Something to do when the weather turns wintry

    https://blog.equance.com/actualite/contentieux-sur-la-csg-crds-des-non-residents-un-nouvel-espoir-de-remboursement.

    It may well be that nothing will be refunded till the end of the governments appeal against this decision , but it is essential to get the 2015 claim in now.

  22. Hi,
        Once you become non-resident in France and retain your french assurance vie policies, , any withdrawals are exempt from french CSG .    If held for over 8 years the gains included in a withdrawal are subject to 7.5% french income tax , which I beleieve could be set against any UK tax due.(Ask HMRC) see here;

    ghttp://www.patrimea.com/fr/blog/2018/04/12/assurance-vie-et-non-resident-fiscalite-2018-sur-les-retraits.

    See also this on UK tax treatment; (note; your french assurance provider will notify you of the declarable gain on a withdrawal).

      https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/gains-on-foreign-life-insurance-policies-hs321-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs321-gains-on-foreign-life-insurance-policies-2015

  23. Hi,
     The UK /France double taxation specifically covers french income tax and social contributions,   in article 2.  UK rents are exempted by article 6.

     See here;
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/496672/france_dtc_-_in_force.pdf

    The OP should write to the tax office pointing this out quoting the relevant treaty entry.

  24. Hi,
      You should never have been charged income tax and csg on your uk rents.  You can claim a repayment for the three past years.  Send a "reclamation" letter with copies of the avis for the years in question , include the recent  0  tax one.  Quote the convention internationale 2008 article 6.

  25. Hi,
      This may help:

    https://www.hsbc.fr/1/2/en/personal/investing/tools/wealth-tax-simulator

    click on détaillée.

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