My new baby!

[Dick Smith]

I realise that there are people who aren't very clever, Chris, yes.

Not all questions have simple answers, no matter how much that would suit you. How about you make some effort to understand something for once? Instead of mocking people who have made the effort and do understand.

I am paid to teach kids, not you. As you bring it up again. Your ignorance is your own responsibility, I am afraid.

[Russethouse]

Actually this thread has raised a couple of issues, the first forum related - I wonder if we should have a small holding or farm animal section somewhere, and secondly I wonder how many people like Chris have moved to France and then decided to have a few animals with no previous experience, and how do they get on ?.

In the meantime Chris, how about asking Santa for :http://www.amazon.co.uk/Keeping-Garden-Farming-Elisabeth-Downing/dp/0720717884/sr=8-4/qid=1166134955/ref=sr_1_4/026-5102568-6085261?ie=UTF8&s=books [:)]

It has a section on butchery.

[Chris Head]

I mock nobody Dick, take the pees perhaps, act chidishly perhaps but mocking is your territory, not mine.

See me as a kid Dick, when I ask you...'What do you mean, I don't understand', I mean it. I have the humility to ask the question, you have the ego to bat me down. Yes I'm seriously ignorant in many ways, it results from my hate of education when I was young...but nowadays I have the strength to say 'I'm thick, I don't understand', I don't try and patronise folk in the same way as you do, I just don't feel the need to.

The opposite to your world is my world, you wouldn't survive ten minutes in my world but you seem to think that my skills and experience are lesser to yours, I can do stuff with my eyes shut that you will only ever be able to dream about, you have a grasp of stuff that I would love to know about, but have little chance of ever attaining. It's all about recognising differing personalities and lifestyles Dick.

 

[Dick Smith]

OK Chris, but I don't really want to prolong yet another discussion of you mostly fed by you. You really need to sort your ego out.

You are right, of course, I could never imagine doing the things you do...

[Tresco]

Chris, if you didn't know what philosophy had to do with moral relativism, why did you mention philospophy?

I think you knew very well what Dick meant. I think you do this all the time, play the 'I'm thick me' role, when you aren't.

It isn't "strong" of you to say 'I'm thick', it's a cop out, because you aren't.

Every time you say how much humility you have, I'm alerted to how little you have.

Dick doesn't patronise people, (folk) he uses reason and logic.

Every time you say someone else can't grasp anothers viewpoint, you imply you can, and yet you haven't grasped any of the points people more experienced than you in animal husbandry have made - yet.

Chris we have always got on very well. I hope you will read this as it is written.

 

 

[Chris Head]

And Dick, you seriously need to think about the way you address people, it's most unattractive.. we all have an ego, and yours is up there amongst the best of 'em.

[Dick Smith]

Whatever you say, Chris.

Yawn...

[Tresco]

And now can you address my post, Chris.

[Chris Head]

Equally soporific Dick.

Hang on Tresc let me go back to it.

[Chris Head]

[quote user="Tresco"]

I've got no problem with anyone rearing animals and then eating them.

I do have a problem when someone says they have no experience (apart from seeing some very inhumane ways of slaughtering) and says they will 'learn' by doing it themselves.

As I've said, we are surrounded by people who are skilled at slaughtering/butchering. We would only need to ask.

Several people here do have experience, yet they've been ignored at each turn. Chris, you also talk about a 'rule book' and that you would be derided if you asked people in the locality. Would those be the same people who used the "mallet method' for the pig you mentioned?.

Why not ask other people to help you with this, or to find someone who will help you and do it humanely?

You'll still 'learn'.

PS Barrage, Dotty.

Ok Tresc,

[/quote]

I don't really know how much more humane the killing could be, it'll be over instantly. Once the ram is dead, if I mess up the carcass then so be it.

I'm glad I watched that chap kill the pig with the mallet, that's the reason I'm taking the responsibility on my own shoulders, I wouldn't treat an animal in the same way. I don't really know what you want from me Tresc...if you want to win an argument then tell me how so? Come and see the process and report back, it's an invitation that I've made twice tonight but the recipients seem to not want to take me up on it!

[Tresco]

Chris, re the animal, I don't see how I could be clearer. I don't know whether you are genuinely going to attempt to kill and slaughter this animal without practical, on the spot giudance or not. I just think you should take Hoddys or anyone who has experience, advice before you attempt this. You  have said the ram is a bit of a b ugger.

I don't want to 'win', I can't win, because I haven't done it myself. All I was suggesting is that if we had animals, we would have read every instruction (disregarding the derision of those who don't) and, that we would have got someone to slaughter the animal - with us watching keenly, if we wished to become 'adept' at doing so ourselves.

But, it wasn't that post I was seeking an answer to, it was the later one I made.

[Chris Head]

Oh me gawd Tresc, you're a hard wench to please!

Hang on, back in a mo....

[Chris Head]

[quote user="Tresco"]

Chris, you already said your ribs or shins or whatever it was haven't recovered from the last time you tried to approach the ram.

How are you going to get up to it.

And when you say 'adept', how many Rams have you shot before? Seriously.

[/quote]

This one, it's GOTTA be this one....none Tresc, not a single one, pigs yes, rams no. OK?

[Tresco]

Nope, not this one. Dear oh dear! That's an expression, Chris, I'm not calling you dear!

Look back to 00.10

 

[YCCMB]

Chris, I have said before that I think you are disingenuous. I had no lingering doubts, but if I had, you've successfully removed them. I think Dick has you banged to rights. This has developed (again) into a discussion about you. The slaughter of the ram has just become a vehicle for that. This is probably an example of when any publicity is not good publicity.

 

[Chris Head]

I know what disingenuous means now, insincere, not candid or frank. I'm doing my best to be all three of those things Betty, nothing I'm saying is even remotely disingenuous, I'm just being honest. I don't understand the publicity bit??? Nothing has changed in my mind this morning. As I've already said, I raised the subject knowing I'd get flak, the flak doesn't bother me. The subject is about sheep, not me, all I've done is my best not to poke my head up and then run away and hide on a subject you all strong feelings about, I've faced all of you despite the personal stuff and wild guesses about my character, of which none of you know anything about, but it's everybodies right to have their theory.

My wife Sarah is nutty about animals and their rights too, when I told her I was going to kill the ram (expecting grief) she just said, 'good'.

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Chris Head"]

The subject is about sheep, not me

[/quote]

That will be why the words "I" or "Me" or "my" or variations of the same figure 18 times in your last post, and the words "sheep" or "ram" appear once each???????

[powerdesal]

[quote user="Hoddy"]. The mother had three lambs, again, something which should not happen with good management. [/quote]

Hoddy,

Totally ( well mostly) off the primary topic of this thread,  I would be genuinely interested in an explanation of the above extracted quote. I reared sheep (Jacobs crossed with a welsh mountain ram) for some years and I believe my flock management was pretty reasonable. Triplets happen occasionally, how do / did you stop that?.

[Chris Head]

Erm, because I'm trying to defend my decision to kill my ram. I've already openly said that I'm not the best of writers, I'll try and change it, although how and to what? You must be right Betty, if counting words floats your boat then that's fine by me!

[WJT]

[quote user="Chris Head"]

I know what disingenuous means now, insincere, not candid or frank. I'm doing my best to be all three of those things Betty, nothing I'm saying is even remotely disingenuous, I'm just being honest. I don't understand the publicity bit??? Nothing has changed in my mind this morning. As I've already said, I raised the subject knowing I'd get flak, the flak doesn't bother me. The subject is about sheep, not me, all I've done is my best not to poke my head up and then run away and hide on a subject you all strong feelings about, I've faced all of you despite the personal stuff and wild guesses about my character, of which none of you know anything about, but it's everybodies right to have their theory.

My wife Sarah is nutty about animals and their rights too, when I told her I was going to kill the ram (expecting grief) she just said, 'good'.

[/quote]

Chris, it does sound like you have a problem there that you cannot handle but perhaps your wife should read this thread. I would have to wonder if she understands the way in which you are going to kill this ram and the fact that is illegal and could be horrific.

 

P.S. Off subject, but I have just seen Christine's response to an earlier posting of mine. Christine, I am not sure if I understand, because of the [:P] stick out tongue smiley. I hope it wasn't because I should not have mentioned the puppies in another thread or perhaps I am reading it wrong.

[Christine Animal]

You are reading it wrong WJT, the stick out tongue smiley to me is a giggle, it just meant that I love the way you are and the way you say things.   [:)]  [:P]   [:)]

[Meg]

There are some very serious points being raised about this topic, which many people moving over to start small scale farming would be interested in. I really hope this doesn't get pulled. Unnessacery personal comments about others doesn't really help this and are irrelevant. 

RH, i think a new section for smallholding etc, would be a great idea.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="Hoddy"]. The mother had three lambs, again, something which should not happen with good management. [/quote]

Hoddy,

Totally ( well mostly) off the primary topic of this thread,  I would be genuinely interested in an explanation of the above extracted quote. I reared sheep (Jacobs crossed with a welsh mountain ram) for some years and I believe my flock management was pretty reasonable. Triplets happen occasionally, how do / did you stop that?.
[/quote]You may find this interesting

http://www.mountlinton.co.nz/html/MOREPRO.htm  as with humans, there is a genetic pre-disposition for twins to go on to produce twins and triplets but as you say, it happens occasionally anyway.  This study is also good

http://www.teagasc.ie/research/reports/sheep/4797/eopr-4797.pdf

[Chris Head]

The website was created for us by somebody else, we took his advice all the way along. In fact the site is pretty much useless to the private sector, it was only ever intended for the people I carve for in the UK, schools and local authorites. I ditched the private sector of the carving three years ago.

It's a shame you're scrabbling around for stuff like that Christine Animal, but again, if it floats your boat and makes you feel better, fair enough.

[Christine Animal]

OK, I've deleted  what was no more harmful than anything others have said Chris.  Now I'm getting out of this monotonous and boring thread, as you are only going to do whatever you want, even it it is illegal and against other people's advice.