pachapapa Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Was the Dordogne Assises case a burglary?http://www.20minutes.fr/ledirect/790170/dordogne-homme-juge-avoir-decoupe-morceaux-allemande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I am sure I read somewhere that in France a householder has the right to protect his property by force against a tresspasser whether it be a burglar or someone on his land and guns are recognised as legally to be used where necessary to protect oneself aganst attack. I would imagine they are far tougher here with punishments than the namby pamby UK system where the victim becomes the accused usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissie Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I think the last thing anyone should do is just cut off the burglar's means of escape - that could turn a bad situation into a horrendous one. I would like to think I would have the presence of mind, and the opportunity, to hit, cut or shoot them in such a way as to disable them and allow their subsequent arrest. But suppose there are several of them?.........And whilst possessions are replaceable, suppose they have violence on their mind anyway? I can understand anyone lashing out indiscriminately in a huge panic, and probably trying to eliminate (i.e.kill) the threat before they or their family get harmed.I also think that anyone who breaks into a house or business premises, and who is therefore by definition intent on a crime of some sort, should lose all rights regarding their treatment at the hands of the occupier.Chrissie (81) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Reactions and consequences can be unpredictable; look at the case of the German Lady just wandering along a footpath in Dordognyshire.Cut up in bits with a saw while she was still alive.Not nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 According to this latest piece, albeit it's in the DM, the knife was the burglar's own:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038785/Bramhall-father-arrested-stabbing-death-burglar-broke-home.htmlWell then, now, I am more on the side of the householder as, in a struggle, you'd just grab whatever weapon is to hand, wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Rabbie, some people don't 'make' enemies, they end up with them though and they end up living in fear.example is a battered wife escaping her violent husband and that is just one example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Well if it was the burglars knife they were armed, I don't blame anyone for getting the knife and going for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I remember years ago watching Alan Wicker I think reporting from a small town in the USA. The whole population seemed to be armed .. Even the vicar carried a pistol along with the grannies going to the shops... The town was crime free .No burglary no rapes no shoplifting as all planning to offend knew what the outcome was likely to be ... I am not suggesting we should live like that ...but ...If the recent deaths of burglars make a few think twice before they go out after dark then that is fine by me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Also dosn't several states in the US still carry the death penalty for murder? That could also be a deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 But it doesn't appear to be so, Val. These states have very high murder rates which the death penalty threat does not seem to reduce. And in any case, the people who are executed seem to be mainly poorly educated, impoverished and mainly black. Middle class, white educated killers seem to manage to buy their way out of the death penalty.I don't think that anything deters a criminal hell bent on doing his dreadful deed. I think that many crimes are committed by people who see only the "reward" of accomplishing their short-term goals and are oblivious of the long-term consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 If a scumbag enters your property intent on robbery why can't you take action to defend yourself.Insurance is ok but what about the phycological effect it has on the victim.It is all very worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 [quote user="idun"]Rabbie, some people don't 'make' enemies, they end up with them though and they end up living in fear.example is a battered wife escaping her violent husband and that is just one example.[/quote]I was actually only talking about myself not about other people. I can assure you that I have no plans to become a wife - battered or otherwise[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Joe, I don't think anyone has suggested that you can't defend yourself.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneySuckleDreams Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 i hit the burglar who was burgling my shed with a sawn of hockey stick (great in small spaces if you ever need something). It turned out he was the lad of a neighbour. Who got another twat from his mum when I took him back. I was lucky, in retrospect , for hitting someone who's parents still had a moral compass as I dread to think what would have happened if it was a scally from a scally family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I am just so annoyed because whatever happens to the man who has been charged with attempted murder,him and his family will probably have to move because the "robber's" family could make their life a bit unpleasant to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 [quote user="Val_2"]Also dosn't several states in the US still carry the death penalty for murder? That could also be a deterrent.[/quote]Or, if you kill one person then you might as well blast away all in a house because the punishment will be the same - if you do get away and the police chase you take a few of those out because the punishment will be the same.Perhaps though if the law was that if anyone broke in to your house you could kill them they might think a little more carefully.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 It has got to be soul destroying if you have saved,worked hard to pay a mortgage etc and looking to a better future for you and your family,then something like this happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 I agree, Joe, your whole life disrupted.Prison or remand whilst, if you are self-employed, your business is unattended and goes to pot.Your child perhaps having fingers pointed at them in school and worrying about his dad.Your wife left to worry about your fate and trying to help the child.The ramifications go on and on and you were just living your life and minding your own affairs.I might not actually kill the burglar but I'd sure as eggs is eggs be wishing him dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I'm probably in danger of being cast as the forum's woolly liberal, but should life be this cheap?If a child of yours fell in with a gang, and after a night on the Buckys, in a drunken haze, decided to invade someone else's property, would you consider it appropriate if he (or she) were killed? Do you really think that society would be better for everyone carrying a firearm? I recall a few years ago seeing some statistics about death from firearms and the figures for the USA were frightening.I am all in favour of defending home and property, but that is all it is ... property. I know that there is often a feeling of invasion, of being defiled, and people feel unable to continue living in that home. But if you consider someone else's life to be cheap, don't be surprised if someone considers your's to be cheap as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekJ Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Looks like the dead piece of scum had it coming and it's a good job he has been permanently removed from the world.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8776004/Man-charged-over-raid-which-saw-burglar-stabbed.htmlHave a look at his "previous". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 [quote user="Clarkkent"] I'm probably in danger of being cast as the forum's woolly liberal, [/quote]Well, one of them at any rate (although the term used on me by a fellow forum member was "bleeding heart", iirc). I'm amazed at how easy people seem to think it would be to take a life - even that of a scumbag. I used to work alongside a chap who had the most scary collection of knives I have ever seen. He used to leave them lying about the place (a big house in the middle of the country) in order to defend himself from potential villains. I used to insist that he locked these away when I was alone there because I felt that even if these mythical people turned up and threatened me, that I would be in more danger by arming them with these revolting weapons (which I'm sure must have - quite rigthly, imo - been illegal) than otherwise. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but I don't think I could ever kill anybody over stuff. Somebody I loved, my own life perhaps, but stuff? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 If it is someone's son or daughter that was killed as they were commiting a crime, then how would people feel if their parent died of a heart attack because someone broke in. Sometimes it isn't just the robbing of property that can usually be replaced that is the thing, it is the sheer terror that these criminals cause, that as the advert says is priceless. We should all feel safe in our own homes, and as someone who didn't for the last few years I lived in France, I must say it is an awful feeling.Most of us bring our kids up properly. They know right from wrong. If they chose not to take responsibility, it is a choice. And if in a group, then if one is armed, then there is a risk that someone will get hurt, one of them or the victim(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissie Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Agree with you totally, idun! (Good heavens.) Something I feel is terribly lacking in today's society is the idea of accountability and consequences. I am so fed up with hearing people (of all ages) say: "Oh, but I didn't mean any harm. I didn't think such-and-such would happen." Usually followed by a slightly belligerent "Well, I've said I'm sorry, so what's the problem?...."If a kid gets in with the wrong crowd, they should still have the basics to realise that breaking into someone's house is not "for a laugh" or "just to get a bit of dosh." It is a really serious offence, is totally morally wrong and, these days, could see them getting a serious bit of payback. It's the real world, not a play-station.Chrissie (81) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 [quote user="Chrissie"]Agree with you totally, idun! (Good heavens.) Something I feel is terribly lacking in today's society is the idea of accountability and consequences. [/quote]It isn't any lack of "accountability and consequence" that I am arguing about, it is the idea that the first and only consequence of breaking into someone's home should be DEATH. Is your flat screen tv, or the key of your Skoda really worth killing someone for? Do you really want to feel that you should have the unfettered right to kill intruders? Where does this savagery come from?Defend your property, defend your loved ones by all means, but don't set yourselves up as judge, jury and executioner. You'd be no better than Gaddafi or Bashar al-Assad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 [quote user="Clarkkent"]Defend your property, defend your loved ones by all means, but don't set yourselves up as judge, jury and executioner. You'd be no better than Gaddafi or Bashar al-Assad.[/quote]Claptrap.If any of these tyrants were around do you think that these scumbags would be roaming the streets deciding which was going to be the next bit of property they would take from the lawful owners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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