If Scotland says Yes

[Théière]

Does that mean millions of websites world wide will have to change United Kindom to England or Britain?  At least then I won't have to scroll all the way down the page to United Kindom when adding my address.[:)]

[YCCMB]

Surely the rest of the kingdom will still be united? OK, maybe not for long.....

I'm suspecting that website suffixes etc., aren't going to be the deal breaker that win it for the "no" campaign, though...

[dave21478]

Whilst stuff like that is pretty far down the list of important outcomes from a yes vote, it all adds up to more and more little niggles that will make life harder for all concerned.

Aside from completely fucking the countries future up, of course.

If Scotland separates, will it remain part of the EU? if not, will I then have to start messing about with a carte de sejour while the English woman down the road wont? It says "British" on my passport, will that be enough? Will most French bureaucracies even care?

[nomoss]

[quote user="dave21478"]Whilst stuff like that is pretty far down the list of important outcomes from a yes vote, it all adds up to more and more little niggles that will make life harder for all concerned.

Aside from completely fucking the countries future up, of course.

If Scotland separates, will it remain part of the EU? if not, will I then have to start messing about with a carte de sejour while the English woman down the road wont? It says "British" on my passport, will that be enough? Will most French bureaucracies even care?[/quote]

As only people living in Scotland at the time of the referendum can vote, I assume they will all automatically become Scottish/Scots (?) when the borders are closed if the vote is "Yes" [:-))]

You will probably be able to later claim Scots nationality if you satisfy whatever criteria they decide are required for this, or continue as a British national by default.

The way things are heading it will be the English woman down the road who needs a carte de sejour, while you, having opted to stay/become a citizen of Scotland, which has stayed in the EU, will not [:D]

[NickP]

[quote user="nomoss"]     

The way things are heading it will be the English woman down the road who needs a carte de sejour, while you, having opted to stay/become a citizen of Scotland, which has stayed in the EU, will not [:D]

[/quote]

What makes you think that Scotland will be allowed to stay in the EU in the event of a yes vote. I believe they would have to apply; and it's not certain they would get accepted, ask the Spanish. If there is a yes vote everything has to be negotiated.

[Frederick]

It appears after a Yes vote if its won the submarine base will have to go as its part of their plan so there is a huge upset ahead for NATO . The USA is likely to punish an Independent Scotland  for going none nuclear according past Prime Minister John Major as the base is very important to them as well as the Royal Navy .

What would an independent  Scotland gain from making an enemy of the USA from day one ?

Also it seems families are now falling out with each other over  which way to vote  and the nearer the election day comes  I think the worse it will get  . IMO the day of the vote will be a sad one .... for everybody and a lot of people will end up very unhappy whatever the vote and wondering if the whole thing was worth it .

[dave21478]

The whole problem with democracy is that it gives a voice to the type of people you really dont want deciding a countries future! [:P]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people up there who see Braveheart as a documentary and think themselves sophisticated because they write in the comments section of the Daily Mail website.

My own family has a branch of council-estate dwelling troglodytes who between them have done maybe 3 months honest work in their entire lives. They are all voting for independance because, and I quote and apologise for the language....

"fck the English, they have screwed the scots over for hundreds of years....we want freedom."

oh, so what about EU trade systems, and the costs of importing goods?

"huh?"

Where is Scotland to get its income?

"The oil, man. fcking north sea is full of it...Scottish oil for the Scots. Look at those cnts in Dubai, they are all minted - Scotland should be like that"

I dont think it works like that....

"Whatever, I read in the Sun that.....

or

"Alex Salmond says that......."

And I stop listening at that point. Theirs is not a unique example either - far from it. I just hope that the usual voter apathy keeps more on their sofas watching Jeremy Kyle than heading to the polling stations.

Scary times.

[NickP]

A yes vote certainly doesn't give independence straight away, a yes vote gives the Scottish parliament the mandate to then negotiate independence. It will be a long road from yes to independence. Personally I don't think that the submarine base will be closed down, as apart from anything else jobs will be lost, it is just being used as a threat to try to retain sterling etc. Another thing it will be used to bargain against is the amount of National debt that Scotland would have to share. I think I'm right in believing that Ireland never actually paid it's share of the debt. Salmond and his pip squeak assistant are scaremongering and so is Westminster. Unfortunately the ordinary people are just being fed propaganda.

 I don't think that Yes is best for either country, but if that's what the good folk north of the border want then so be it, that's their choice. As for the oil I don't think that anybody in Scotland actually owns it, most of it probably belongs to foreign investors. As for the fcking English screwing Scotland for hundreds of years I believe the union came about because of Scottish debts at that time.

[mint]

[quote user="dave21478"]The whole problem with democracy is that it gives a voice to the type of people you really dont want deciding a countries future! [:P]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people up there who see Braveheart as a documentary and think themselves sophisticated because they write in the comments section of the Daily Mail website.

My own family has a branch of council-estate dwelling troglodytes who between them have done maybe 3 months honest work in their entire lives. They are all voting for independance because, and I quote and apologise for the language....

"fck the English, they have screwed the scots over for hundreds of years....we want freedom."

oh, so what about EU trade systems, and the costs of importing goods?

"huh?"

Where is Scotland to get its income?

"The oil, man. fcking north sea is full of it...Scottish oil for the Scots. Look at those cnts in Dubai, they are all minted - Scotland should be like that"

I dont think it works like that....

"Whatever, I read in the Sun that.....

or

"Alex Salmond says that......."

And I stop listening at that point. Theirs is not a unique example either - far from it. I just hope that the usual voter apathy keeps more on their sofas watching Jeremy Kyle than heading to the polling stations.

Scary times.

[/quote]

For what it's worth, I think you are being unnecessarily pesistimistic.

The scots are not known for being canny for nothing.  I reckon that, if they do vote for independence (which incidentally I don't think they will), they will manage everything just fine.

In a way, I will be one of the first to applaud them should they show a bit of spirit (OK, maybe spirit is not a good word to use here)!

[YCCMB]

It's odd, though, that the only "Scots" who can vote one way or the other are those actually living in Scotland at the time of the referendum. As it would appear that a good percentage of Scots live elsewhere, then how does this actually affect their nationality going forward? If you left before the referendum and there's a "Yes" vote, does that make you stateless? Or will those Scots currently living outside the confines of Hadrian's wall have to apply for nationality, etc.?

It will be interesting to see how UKIP (which, in itself, may prove to be something of a misnomer, should the vote be a "yes") will deal with all the stateless Scots living in England. Will they be considered to be a greater threat than Romanians? Will we see high dudgeon in the Daily Mail as Scots living south of the border continue to benefit from the UK benefits system?

Oh well, I suppose it'll be entertaining, if nothing else. Judging by the response in social media to J K Rowling's contribution to the No Campaigns's coffers, most of those ready to vote Yes have the collective IQ of a weetabix and a 3 word vocabulary comprising only profanities. I'm sure they'll manage well as an independent country with that sort of grass-roots support.

[Thibault]

What sort of an independent Scotland will it be if it:

a) keeps the Queen as Head of State

b) keeps sterling as its currency

c) keeps the BBC?

It would appear that Mr S wants to both have independence but also the security of familiar things, so the Scots won't feel totally different.......

[YCCMB]

Maybe an equitable solution would be to allow those of us south of the border to hold a referendum on whether we want Scotland to share those things?

I am reminded of the night Obama was first elected president, when, for some reason, the BBC was refusing to confirm the likelihood of his victory despite it being fairly obvious at a given point. I was forced to look online for alternative sources and came across the Fox News updates (need I say more...?) Anyway, the voxpop bit was, inevitably, peppered with comments from Mr and Mrs Redneck, largely along the theme of "Right! That's it! I'm moving to Canada!". After several dozen similarly-worded contributions, there came a response from a Canadian. It simply said "But we don't want you".

(Lest I be accused of anti-Scots rhetoric, I am 50% Scottish)

[Frederick]

This from the Guardian on Trident :     According to one member of the Scottish parliament  11000 jobs are dependent on the base. The SNP position is without it there  will be more money to spend of nurses and firemen etc to create jobs .   ...........

Senior Nato officials have warned Alex Salmond's government that an independent Scotland would be barred from joining Nato if there were any disputes over the basing of nuclear weapons on the Clyde.

The Guardian can reveal that a small group of Scottish civil servants travelled to Nato HQ in Brussels last month to discuss Scotland's options for joining the alliance if Salmond wins next year's independence referendum. They argued that an independent Scotland should be given special treatment because it was already a significant part of an existing, founder member of Nato, the UK.

It is understood that Nato officials said it might be possible to allow Scotland to start fast-track talks – but in a blow to Salmond's anti-nuclear strategy, the Scottish delegation was also told that no new member would be allowed to join Nato if that state had unresolved military or territorial disputes with other countries.

Under article 10 of the Nato treaty, one assistant general secretary of Nato said at the meeting on 6 July, new applicants also have to show a history of stable defence policies and structures as a minimum entry requirement. Article 10 also implies that every Nato member accepts the alliance's nuclear first-strike policy.Official sources in Edinburgh and London confirm that these issues were seen as coded warnings that the Scottish government's determination to close down the Trident nuclear submarine base at Faslane on the Clyde would be a major obstacle to Scotland's application.

Lord Robertson, a former secretary general of Nato and a defence secretary in Tony Blair's government, said Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria were expected to resolve disputes over Transylvania and crossings over the Danube before starting their Nato membership process.

"You're not expected to import problems with your neighbours into Nato and that's a very clear warning signal," Robertson said. He said Faslane's continued operations were integral to Nato's strategic concept.

He said Salmond knew there was an unbridgeable contradiction between Salmond's desire to join Nato and his pledge to remove nuclear weapons from Scotland. "He's taking the Scottish people for fools by claiming that [the SNP] would want Scotland to be in Nato but laying down conditions that would make it impossible. It's a confidence trick both on their membership and the Scottish people."

[Gardengirl]

I tend to think it's all part of a cunning plan by AS to be in as strong a negotiating position as he can to get as much from UK as possible, so that the Scots will be in an even better position by ending up staying in.

As somebody with Scottish lineage, I wouldn't want to have to show my passport when heading up to the west coast - I think I might just put up with the Lake District or the Alps instead!

[Frecossais]

As has been said, there are many "canny" Scots as well as those who will vote with their heart only in September.

I've heard that a lot of cynical Scots are already quietly moving their money elsewhere just in case. In my view they're right to be cynical, since there are more questions than answers on the table  And of course there are rumblings from Banks and other enterprises.

[idun]

What will be will be.

The welsh and scots already have their own parliaments and can make a lot of decisions about  their countries.

What 'I' care about is that  MPs that do not have english constituencies can actually vote on things that only affect England. I would love for it to stop NOW! Whatever else happens I really want that to happen.

[Gardian]

If there's a "Yes" vote, surely Scottish Westminster MP's will cease to exist?

[Rabbie]

If there is a Yes vote then there will be negotiations on the terms of separation. AS has already stated that existing holders of UK passports will be able to retain them. I do not think it at all likely that the Westminster government would forcibly remove UK citizenship from people that wish to retain it especially if they are not resident in Scotland. It has been suggested that there may be some form of dual citizenship possibilities for those eligible but that is less definite.

I believe that having to show a passport if travelling from England to an independent Scotland is scare tactics by the No side. After all no passport is needed in travelling from the UK to Eire and I can see no reason why Scotland should be treated more harshly for seeking independence by a democratic route rather than by violence.

Personally I think (and hope) there will be a NO vote in September. Cameron has already promised increased powers to the devolved Scottish Parliament and this must IMO lead to the establishment either of an English Parliament or Regional English Parliaments. The current situation where Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs can legislate on English affairs is clearly wrong and needs to be addressed.

[NickP]

Eire is part of the EU, so that's why no passport going out; but  try coming back into the UK  without a passport. So I would imagine if the independence takes place; the UK for sure will set up border posts. Also  Scotland may not be in the EU, and even now if you travel by plane to Scotland from England they demand you carry a passport or plastic driving licence for ID, both ways.

[idun]

One can but wonder when there will be a PM who has not got scottish connections.

Cameron is hardly an 'english' surname and his father was born in Scotland

Brown...... scot

Blair........ scot, born in Edinburgh

Who knows how people will vote......... Salmond for me, showed an act of lunacy in saying that children can vote. I'm not even sure if 18 year olds should be major and vote anyway.

I remember seeing something on tv years ago, so it could even have been on french tv about all the little 'countries' getting independence and resting within the EU.... Catalan, Basque Country, heck even Britanny. It was said that it should be easier now and stop the minorities feeling left out. Is this the way things should be going?

[Rabbie]

[quote user="NickP"]Eire is part of the EU, so that's why no passport going out; but  try coming back into the UK  without a passport. So I would imagine if the independence takes place; the UK for sure will set up border posts. Also  Scotland may not be in the EU, and even now if you travel by plane to Scotland from England they demand you carry a passport or plastic driving licence for ID, both ways.
[/quote]I have been travelling for many years to Ireland by boat and never had to have a passport with me. There were no checks before Ireland and the UK joined the EU and nothing seems to have changed now. Agreed that you need passport or other ID for air travel but that applies if you are flying on any flight even internally in England.

[NormanH]

the little 'countries' getting independence and resting within the

EU.... Catalan, Basque Country, heck even Britanny. It was said that it

should be easier now and stop the minorities feeling left out

This would be my preferred solution. A European federation of small 'states' who each have a real feeling of identity, and the abolition of existing nations.

[mint]

I think that aYes vote would serve the Conservatives very well.

As AS has said on TV, to my great amusement, there are more pandas than Conservative MPs in Scotland.  So, if Scotland voted Yes, then the Conservatives (without those pesky Scottish MPs) would almost certainly get an outright majority in Westminster.  Wouldn't have MPs representing Scotland skewing their figures.

Nick Clegg and his party would be toast, the Labour lot and Miliband consigned to being no more than inconvenient irritants.