So what is wrong with being called a pleb

[Gluestick]

There is a little lesson in all this, I believe; since that other lovely man with poor taste in female company, David Mellor just this week, verbally abused a London cab driver: and this lesson is it just shows how these political incompetents are so very convinced they are intellectually, morally and socially much more important than those who elect them and those whom the MPs living in the rarefied air on top of their Ivory Towers, are supposed to be serving.

Needs to change: and urgently..........

[idun]

But how Gluestick? Isn't the trouble is that the sort of person who usually goes in for this milkary must be disposed to act in such a fashion, OR be malleable enough to morph, or is it mould into the set pieces of the power game.

[YCCMB]

It's a bit like the Scottish referendum, though, isn't it? Someone is voting for these people.

Like "Man of the people" Farage. "Nice bloke, in touch with the electorate" . Wants us out of Europe, German wife, worked in the city for two French firms......

However, as I said in another post days ago..there are six hundred odd MP's and probably six hundred of them are never mentioned in he press. So is it because they're the ones who are good at staying below the radar, or are they just good full stop?

And is the percentage of nasty, arrogant, corrupt MP's in any way greater than the percentage of nasty, arrogant corrupt people in society as a whole? If not, then perhaps Westminster is nothing more than a microcosm of the society it represents. We will never know.

[idun]

 600 never mentioned or only locally........... suddenly I feel like using really really bad language about these people.

Before I say more, my current MP isn't too bad, and they have queried things for me and done what they can. The replies they have had for me have been full of nonsense which I find insulting, and as they have said, as they have passed this correspondence on to me...... 'not what you wanted to hear'. I never want to hear tosh and be treat like I am completely stupid when I query anything, especially when I do not query anything lightly. And my MP, well, I have never seen them in other than the local news.

HOWEVER, there are important things that some of the others are UP TO, that need sorting and they need stopping, someone or a lot of them questioning everything. This 'silent' mass are there, they have as much right and should have as big a voice as any of the full of bull mess talkers especially if they are in the government. So why are they not doing something about some of the decisions made.

Isn't good enough to basically keep their heads down, take their salary and all the rest. No wonder the 'top dogs' believe that they are above everyone else with the silent majority in parliament kowtowing.

[YCCMB]

Stopping them is a simple matter of not voting for them. However, you have to be sure that the alternative will be better........

[Théière]

Or Guido fawkes, after all the buiding is falling down. Getting back to basics a good punch is worth a thousand words and pain is a good teacher.

[Pickles]

When this originally came up, Mitchell was said to have sworn at the police officer and called him a "pleb". Mitchell then focused on the word "pleb", saying that he didn't use that word, BUT ADMITTED SWEARING AT A POLICE OFFICER. He evidently did not and does not consider it to be reprehensible to swear at a police officer. In the ensuing story in the papers, the focus was on the word "pleb". I do not understand why Mitchell did not immediately and unreservedly apologise for the swearing.

When did this behaviour become acceptable from our politicians?

If you or I swore at a police officer, we would run the risk of arrest, probably on public order grounds. Why wasn't he arrested?

[YCCMB]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8902770/Swearing-at-police-is-not-a-crime-judge-rules.html

[Pickles]

I don't think that you are really saying that it is acceptable for a senior politician to behave like a bolshie 19-year-old.

Note however, that the person mentioned in the article was in fact arrested and convicted at the time for his behaviour and only got off on appeal.

[powerdesal]

''Normally a SSC is for three years''

Is it ?

I served a Short Service Commission in the Royal Air Force - it was 6 years. Is the Army very different in that regard ?

[woolybanana]

These things do change, PD. but the Army seems to be three years and the RAF is 6. Perhaps because it is more technical?

[powerdesal]

You are probably correct Wooly, No doubt higher entry qualifications needed as well ( ducks below parapet !!!!!!)

[woolybanana]

Well, PD, the technical side of things may require much more training. I imagine you went in as a newly qualified engineer, so to enhance your own value you had to do a certain amount of time and the RAF would need several years to get value, I guess. Whereas an infantry officer, let's say, may need different skills that are already there and just need a bit of developing.

Anyone any good would be offered the opportunity to have more time, I think.

As regards our pleb man, he seems to have been eased out of the back door, probably by mutual consent; the forces used to be pretty strict about what they took and kept, I seem to remember.

[PaulT]

Perhaps his belief that he was superior to the OC did not help :)

As for the quotes of the 19 year old in the newspaper article - lots of double negatives in it.

If you watch the programmes on TV that follow police units the language used by people they stop is unbelievable. Why should it be OK to hear the type of language in the street at any time but be banned on TV until after 21:30? You can turn the TV off but not someone using foul language in the street.

[YCCMB]

No, Pickles, I was simply drawing your attention to the fact that swearing at a police officer (like "looking at me in a funny way" or "wearing a loud shirt" if you remember Not the 9o'Clock News) is not an arrestable offence.

[NickP]

There is not a specific law preventing swearing in public, But most people who swear in public are prosecuted under section 5

Public order act 1985 which states that a person is guilty of the

offence if he engages in disorderly behaviour or displaying any sign or

written material or conduct likely to cause harassment alarm or distress

in a public place.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Well, PD, the technical side of things may require much more training. I imagine you went in as a newly qualified engineer, so to enhance your own value you had to do a certain amount of time and the RAF would need several years to get value, I guess. Whereas an infantry officer, let's say, may need different skills that are already there and just need a bit of developing.

Anyone any good would be offered the opportunity to have more time, I think.

As regards our pleb man, he seems to have been eased out of the back door, probably by mutual consent; the forces used to be pretty strict about what they took and kept, I seem to remember.[/quote]

No wooly, not as a newly qualified Engineer but as an experienced Engineer from Industry. I was subsequently offered a 'Permanent Commission' but decided to return to Civilian life.

[Hoddy]

After looking at the way Mitchell and Mellor spoke to ordinary people made me think about my own experience. I worked for the army for six years and subsequently spent thirty years in teaching and yet I have never been spoke to like that. The nearest approach to anything of the sort was from my late unlamented mother-in-law.

How many of us experience this kind of abuse in our daily lives I wonder ? I don't think of myself as having led a sheltered life.

[Thibault]

Whatever happened to the notion of '...sticks and stones...'? When I was at school, and the playground bullies started, that was the riposte which shut them up.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Thibault"]Whatever happened to the notion of '...sticks and stones...'? When I was at school, and the playground bullies started, that was the riposte which shut them up.[/quote]

A senior member of the government should not be behaving like a bully in public. If senior members of the government show this attitude to the police force, what signal does that send to the rest of the population?

Or is it "one rule for you, a different one for me because I'm better than you"?

If he had simply apologised for the bad language, shut up and moved on, he wouldn't now be on the way to being (allegedly) £3 million poorer, out of government and this incident would have been the tiny footnote that it deserves to be. Everyone can have a bad day. But no, even given overnight to calm down and reflect upon the situation, he had to try to make a pedantic point whilst trivialising his unacceptable swearing at a police officer. Are these the actions of someone who should be trusted with power?

[Thibault]

If you remember, he did apologise for swearing at the police. He disputed the accusation that he used the word pleb. In the end, it was his word against the policeman and the judge said it was on the balance of probabilities that he did use it, because the policeman lacked the wit to use the word himself. Not a terribly satisfactory way to arrive at a decision, but I guess the judge had no choice when the other policeman (not the one in the action) couldn't be bothered to complete his notebook.

If we are searching for the perfect person to trust with power, then it will be a long wait.

Another useful saying - 'Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.'

[Pickles]

[quote user="Thibault"]If you remember, he did apologise for swearing at the police. He disputed the accusation that he used the word pleb. [/quote]

I seem to recall that his apology was rather less than fulsome. Be that as it may, however, he demonstrated an appalling lack of judgement by trying to make a pedantic point about the word "pleb" when he could have kept his mouth shut and kept his job. This was schoolyard stuff and not worthy of someone in his position, other than to admit the transgression, apologise properly and move on without adding fuel to the fire. Come on, this guy is supposed to be a POLITICIAN! If he hasn't got the nouse to avoid an eminently avoidable problem, then he is in the wrong job.

[quote user="Thibault"]In the end, it was his word against the policeman and the judge said it was on the balance of probabilities that he did use it, because the policeman lacked the wit to use the word himself. Not a terribly satisfactory way to arrive at a decision, but I guess the judge had no choice when the other policeman (not the one in the action) couldn't be bothered to complete his notebook.

If we are searching for the perfect person to trust with power, then it will be a long wait.

Another useful saying - 'Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.'[/quote]

I can't accept that we should not condemn appalling behaviour and lapses of judgement by our elected politicians. He may have been having a bad day and did something stupid. Fine. I can accept that that can happen to anybody. What happened next was entirely within his control and he completely fouled it up. If we have sunk so low that we can't criticise stupid childish behaviour by one of our elected politicians, then there really is no hope. Are our expectations of our politicians so low that we should consider this behaviour "normal" and "acceptable"?

[Thibault]

Pichles wrote:

I can't accept that we should not condemn appalling behaviour and lapses of judgement by our elected politicians. He may have been having a bad day and did something stupid. Fine. I can accept that that can happen to anybody. What happened next was entirely within his control and he completely fouled it up. If we have sunk so low that we can't criticise stupid childish behaviour by one of our elected politicians, then there really is no hope. Are our expectations of our politicians so low that we should consider this behaviour "normal" and "acceptable"?

I would take issue with your use of the phrase 'appalling behaviour' - it was rude and he should have known better, but no-one died; no-one was physically attacked. This is the problem today and it is down to tabloid headlines where everything is 'horrific' or a 'tragedy' - people rush to use the strongest term possible for relatively minor events, with the consequence that when something really horrific happens, there are no words to describe it properly, because we have used them all on lesser issues.

As to why he took it further, do you remember the onslaught of media hype around this incident? Do you remember the police tee shirts ' PC Pleb and proud'? Do you remember the false account made from a supposed witness? Do you remember the leaks to the Sun newspaper which printed alleged extracts from police notebooks? Do you remember the Police Federation Reps in his constituency who mislead the media about what had been said?

Given all that, if he was sure he did not say the P word (and he denied it right from the start and never wavered in that, leading to the recent libel case) what should he have done?

I don't particularly like the man and I think he should have had better control over his temper, but on the other hand the frenzy surrounding the whole thing, helped by the police themselves it has to be said, was not edifying either. The media and others were out for his blood and nothing could have stopped them.

[Théière]

[quote user="Pickles"]He may have been having a bad day and did something stupid. Fine. I can accept that that can happen to anybody. What happened next was entirely within his control and he completely fouled it up. If we have sunk so low that we can't criticise stupid childish behaviour by one of our elected politicians, then there really is no hope. Are our expectations of our politicians so low that we should consider this behaviour "normal" and "acceptable"?

[/quote]

Exactly, lead by example, or the populous will believe that behavior is aok and we plunge yet deeper into the mire

[Frederick]

Mellor has just about done down on his knees to beg forgiveness for his booze fueled rant at the cab driver..He has vowed to stick to water in future at dinners . Make a donation to a Cab Charity and short of going round the cab ranks with a bucket and a sponge offering to wash the windows on every black cab he cant say sorry enough ..... Next time he raises his hand ...He will now probably get a cab !