DSK, can we believe this?

[fisherman]

I don’t know how it works in France but in the UK & USA when the authorities have ‘got their man’ there are no end of leaked stories and innuendo which somehow the press gets hold of before it becomes sub-juroray. It may be just coincidental and I am sure that it is not a deliberate attempt to poison potential jurors minds.

Typical example was the landlord who was arrested in Bristol on suspicion of murder. The press got hold of loads of unflattering pictures and salacious details. He was found to be not involved in the end – totally innocent but life blighted.

So I’m not sure if any high profile case could get a fair trial.

[mint]

[quote user="woolybanana"]What is wrong with someone who has been charged being handcuffed?[/quote]

I do not see handcuffing as necessary as long as they are not perceived to be dangerous and are not able to just run away.

Why do they always need to send numbers of armed policemen to arrest anybody?  The chances of anyone running away under the circumstances are surely remote?

I also don't agree with people shown in the media in humiliating positions such as pushed around by the police, soldiers, etc because IMHO, that equates to us all crowding round like in past times to watch a public hanging.

Gruesome and unnecessary and makes us spectators somehow part of the atrocity....

OK, OK, someone is guilty and society might need to discipline him/her but do we all need to be in on the act? 

 

[woolybanana]

[quote user="Frenchie"]http://vuparmwa.over-blog.com/article-en-france-montrer-une-personne-menottee-est-theoriquement-un-delit-73945806.html[/quote]

But, Frenchie, they are attached, chained to a police person, are they not?

[woolybanana]

triple post

[woolybanana]

triple post

[Christine Animal]

Put the bottle away Wooly.   [:D]

 

[idun]

As in, 'drink it all', or 'in the placard'?

[Frenchie]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

[quote user="Frenchie"]http://vuparmwa.over-blog.com/article-en-france-montrer-une-personne-menottee-est-theoriquement-un-delit-73945806.html[/quote]

But, Frenchie, they are attached, chained to a police person, are they not?

[/quote]

They couldn't be shown in the media , until they have been judged. Or else .......the fine is  15,000 euros.

 

[woolybanana]

They normally put a blanket over the accused's head

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Frenchie"]http://vuparmwa.over-blog.com/article-en-france-montrer-une-personne-menottee-est-theoriquement-un-delit-73945806.html[/quote]

In due consideration of your "poxy" french law of 1881, I would just like to make the following observation. On the 1st January 2000 I was pulled from a nocturnal bus queue in the early hours of the morning by the National Police and handcuffed to a railing opposite the Hôtel de Paris. I was waiting quietly for a bus to take me to Massy-Palisseau to catch a TGV to Poitiers as all early morning TGVs from Montparnasse were booked to capacity thus making it necessary to take a TGV on the Brussels-Massy-Bordeaux routing. I had done NOTHING wrong and was left handcuffed for more than 30 minutes before being released. I complained to the different National Police Officer who tersely informed me that if I wanted to cause trouble he would sort me out at the National Police Precinct. I have never forgotten it.

I find your odious comparisons between the respective systems of justice ridiculous and I can only state categorically that I PERSONALLY would very much prefer to be subjected to a criminal trial in the United States of America than in the French Republic.

[idun]

but in the USA they handcuff anyone they arrest.

Imagine, DSK had actually commited this crime in France, not talking about innocent or guilty, but he had actually done everything that they said he had done. Does anyone believe that he would have actually been arrested if this girl had done a porte plainte. Would anything at all have been done? I have trouble believing it.

In the republic of France I have trouble imagining equal justice for everyone.

In fact the only politican of 'standing' that I can ever remember going to prison is Alain Carignon and that shocked me that it had gone that far.

[5-element]

The DSK affair and global politics,  in the context of global justice. From a radical American viewpoint this time.

http://www.zcommunications.org/worlds-collide-in-a-luxury-suite-by-rebecca-solnit

[just john]

An excellent piece, just one tiny flaw of a right for all, that must be the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="5-element"]

The DSK affair and global politics,  in the context of global justice. From a radical American viewpoint this time.

http://www.zcommunications.org/worlds-collide-in-a-luxury-suite-by-rebecca-solnit

[/quote]

I would hardly call Rebecca Solnit radical, just a tad more progressive.

[pachapapa]

[:D] http://www.cookitsimply.com/category-0020-017m1.html

Sorry wrong thread...no suggestion of cannibalising DSK expressed or implied.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

I find your odious comparisons between the respective systems of justice ridiculous and I can only state categorically that I PERSONALLY would very much prefer to be subjected to a criminal trial in the United States of America than in the French Republic.

[/quote]really! Read how they treat prisoners on remand in parts of the USA. These are people who have not been convicted. http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2011/may/22/louis-theroux-miami-mega-jail

There have also been programs on BBC about this jail

[pachapapa]

Unlike the french system of justice a civil case cannot be joined with the criminal action.

So hopefully the DSK saga will continue beyond the present horizon.

http://www.20minutes.fr/article/730928/affaire-dsk-apres-penal-femme-chambre-envisage-action-civil

[Christine Animal]

New address for DSK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNLAMDezlgo

 

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Christine Animal"]

New address for DSK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNLAMDezlgo

 

[/quote]This was on the cards as the other people in the block of flats he was in previously were not happy.

One thing is for sure about the justice systems of many different countries - they certainly favour the rich and influential.  What would have happened to a poor, non-white, accused (but "guilty until proved innocent") person in the same circumstances in France, the US or the UK, I am given to wonder?

[Christine Animal]

I was just waiting for that.   [:D]

 

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Christine Animal"]

I was just waiting for that.   [:D]

 

[/quote]We aim to please.[:)]

[5-element]

[quote user="pachapapa"]I would hardly call Rebecca Solnit radical, just a tad more progressive.[/quote]

[:D]  She is an American who is quite critical of the USA. Also, "radical", as opposed to some of the views expressed here.

[Quillan]

Mulling this thread over whilst doing the more mundane things in life like cleaning rooms, laundry, ironing etc I would like to ask a couple of reasonable questions.

Firstly is there another person or party who may gain from his successful prosecution and possible conviction, like the person who is now trying to jump in to his 'shoes' politically in France? Is she also the same person who has put her name forward for chairperson of the IMF, I can't remember but I am sure a French woman's name was mentioned and that she is very experienced (steady chaps [:$]) in financial matters.

How will the French react if he is found guilty and put in US prison? Will those who have stood buy him for so long have to eat 'humble pie' or will they also claim conspiracy?

Considering, according to Obama's 'address' yesterday in the UK where he stated something along the lines of the US and UK being the world leaders in civil rights, all things legal, fairness and compassion etc, etc, in fact we lead the world between us in just about everything, would it not be better to have the case heard on neutral ground i.e. in the UK under the UK justice system. I mean if found guilty of rape he will only get a 5 year sentence there probably in one of those nice comfortable open prisons they send politicians and 'lords' to, he would probably be out and back home in 18 months.

Anyway, the driers finished (its raining down here before anyone asks) so off to do some more ironing and thinking. [:)]

[andyh4]

There are a whole host of people and organisations who might well want him out of the way ranging from Greek communists to perhaps even members of his own family.

And his own past behaviour would seem to have set the stage perfectly for a set up - if such a thing actually occurred

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Frenchie"]

Our justice has its faults, but when I hear about American justice, well, I 'm happy I'm French !

 

[/quote]I understand why you feel that way and I do sympathise. I do understand why you feel that the system here has been attacked, too.  But can I ask you a hypothetical question?  Based upon what you've seen in the last weeks of what happens across the Atlantic and what you know of what happens here, DSK notwithstanding:

If you were an immigrant cleaner in a hotel who was forced to have anal sex by a high ranking political figure, would you rather it happened to you in Paris or New York?