French citizenship

[Clarkkent]

The following is taken from Wikipedia (I have no reason to suspect its accuracy):

Dual nationality and dual citizenship

Since the British Nationality Act of 1948, there is in general no restriction, in United Kingdom law, on a British national being a citizen of another country as well. So, if a British national acquires another nationality, they will not automatically lose British nationality. Similarly, a person does not need to give up any other nationality when they become British.

….

Many other countries, however, do not allow dual nationality (see Multiple citizenship). If you have British nationality, and are also a national of a country which does not allow dual nationality, the authorities of that country may either regard you as having lost that nationality or may refuse to recognise your British nationality. If you are a British national, and you acquire the nationality of a country which does not allow dual nationality, you may be required by the other country to renounce (give up) your British nationality in order to retain the other citizenship.

Renunciation and resumption of British nationality

All categories of British nationality can be renounced by a declaration made to the Home Secretary. A person ceases to be a British national on the date that the declaration of renunciation is registered by the Home Secretary. If a declaration is registered in the expectation of acquiring another citizenship, but one is not acquired within six months of the registration, it does not take effect and you are considered to have remained a British national.

….

There are provisions for the resumption of British citizenship or British overseas territories citizenship renounced for the purpose of gaining or retaining another citizenship. This can generally only be done once as a matter of entitlement. Further opportunities to resume British citizenship are discretionary.

British subjects, British Overseas citizens and British Nationals (Overseas) cannot under any circumstances resume their British nationality after renunciation.

Both Britain and France allow multiple nationality, as does the USA. The actor and producer John Houseman (Professor Kingsfield in The Paper Chase) held Romanian, French, British and American nationality.

[Will]

[quote user="Clarkkent"]

British subjects, British Overseas citizens and British Nationals (Overseas) cannot under any circumstances resume their British nationality after renunciation.

[/quote]

Thanks for that reminder - I deliberately steered clear of those categories, as they can open whole new cans of worms not connected with French matters. [;-)]

 

[Sprogster]

Will, you are not quite correct, in that the only residents of Jersey or Guernsey who are not treated as full British Citizens in Europe, are those who are Jersey or Guernsey born without any British or EU parentage. (There are no Jersey citizens, as Jersey is part of Great Britain and there are no immigration controls between the Islands and the UK.)

So for example, if you are Jersey born and have a parent or grandparent who is an EU citizen, then you have full  EU free movement of labour citizen rights through ancestry. Only about 3% of Jersey's locally born population do not qualify for full EU citizen free movement of labour rights and their British passport is stamped accordingly.

[Will]

Thanks for the clarification. I suppose it all comes down to how you define a citizen of the Channel Islands, but I am sure people will be pleased to know that.

[gosub]

Jersey

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

French functionnaires may assume that all other countries apply the same rules as France. That said, when my missus took British nationality shortly after we wed in the early 70s France withdrew her citizenship. She had to apply to have it reinstated, with much fuss about whether she would maintain family ties, etc.

Of course, that was before we joined the Common Market.

[AnOther]

Getting back to question of why one would seek to acquire French citizenship, I believe there are some social benefits which open up to you such as home help for the aged for instance and possibly others.

[Tancrède]

There are no Jersey citizens, as Jersey is part of Great Britain and

there are no immigration controls between the Islands and the UK.

The Channel Islands are a Crown Dependency with a separate legislature.  They are not, and never have been part a part of Great Britain or the United Kingdom, neither are they full members of the EU. 

Neither (despite its general and customary acceptability) is Channel Island currency legal tender in Britain.

[marine]

This is also what interests me. I am Irish and was under the impression that if I wanted French citizenship I would have to give up my Irish nationality.

The only reason I want this is that my husband and children are french and I would like to have the right to vote in France!

Are there any other benefits?

 

Dee - French Property Ireland

[martin]

On the 13 Aug last year, I posted a topic "Naturalisation par decret".

So far everything seems to have gone through okay, but it could still be a few months before we receive a decision.

To clarify a couple of issues raised:

The exam/interview is a fairly informal chat, in our case covering such matters as hobbies, basic knowledge of French geography and politics, reasons for wanting nationality.  We were spoken to separately on a one to one basis.

Yes, we each had to obtain a certificate from New Scotland Yard to say we had no convictions.  (This had to be officially translated)

As far as the Gironde is concerned, the application form has to be stamped at the outset by the sous-prefecture and delivered in person at the Prefecture at least three months after this date.

Applicants then have to submit their forms at The Prefecture for 8.30am on a Thursday morning.  On our first attempt, we arrived exactly at 8.30 to join a queue outside of over seventy people; as we shuffled nearer the door, an official then came out to inform us that they couldn't process any more that day and to try again next week.

So, the following Thursday we arrived at 4.00am to join a queue of about twenty people (camping chairs, blankets and thermos flasks).   As the morning progressed, more and more applicants arrived, then when the doors opened at 8.30am the first few - including us, were allowed in and given a numbered ticket.  As before, the majority of applicants were then turned away.

Once inside we waited a couple of hours for our number to be called, then after going through all the documents we had to wait some more.  During this time, we saw a couple of applicants turned away because there was something missing or wrong with their forms (no crossings-out or tippex is permitted). 

We got away just after 3.00pm

It was obvious that the department dealing with this issue was very overworked, but very thorough in checking through each and every document.  Despite this being a long and tiring day I found that the staff who I dealt with were pleasant and polite.

Following submission of our dossiers, there was some subsequent correspondence and an interview (90mins) with the police which seemed to go well.

As I write, our dossiers have moved on from the prefecture to The Ministy, who have up to mid April to make a decision.

 

 

[5-element]

Martin - thank you for your sobering account.[:'(]

I cannot imagine that anyone would want to go through this just for fun.

Good luck for the rest, may it proceed smoothly.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

[quote user="Scooby"]It is quite possible for a British citizen to have dual nationality - friends of our have British / Canadian dual nationality.  When they became Canadian nationals they weren't required to give up their British mationality.

[/quote]

And again, both Lynda and I have dual nationality, British and Australian. I know of people who have tri nationality with British as one of them.

[martin]

Well, fourteen months on, we as a British family (of four) have been granted French Nationality (Naturalisation par Decret).  There are a number of reasons for wanting this status, in particular we want to ensure that when our two children are of age, there will be no barriers to employment opportunities.

Since applying, I have asked around for other Brits' experiences of the procedure but have been most surprised to learn that nobody I know of has gone for it.

Well, at last we are now legally and officially "French", while also retaining full rights as British Nationals.  It really is a no-lose situation, so why don't more people apply?

I would be happy to pass on any info or advice on the procedure involved, based on my experiences.

 

[5-element]

Martin, thank you for telling of your experience - I hope it will help people, as there seems to be so many rumours, untruths and fears floating around concerning dual nationality. I have dual nationality (British/French) too, having acquired the British one in the 70's - it has never seemed problematic.

[cooperlola]

I may well take you up on your kind offer, Martin.  My five years are up this year so I plan to go for it.  The primary reason for me being one of voting rights.  I can't understand why these are apparently so unimportant to many - especially those who sound off on a regular basis about politicians on both sides of the channel.  They like to moan about them but don't seem to be interested in their right to elect them, or otherwise.

Hops off soap box.[:D]

[Clair]

[quote user="5-element"]

Martin, thank you for telling of your experience - I hope it will help people, as there seems to be so many rumours, untruths and fears floating around concerning dual nationality. I have dual nationality (British/French) too, having acquired the British one in the 70's - it has never seemed problematic.

[/quote]

Ditto, but makes that the 80's.

[5-element]

Good to see you are back into hopping now, Coops, you are making progress in leaps and bounds?

[AnOther]

[quote user="martin"]It really is a no-lose situation, so why don't more people apply?[/quote]Congratulations on your new status but I'm surprised you ask such a question, especially living in the area you do, no offence intended by that but I think you understand my meaning [:)]

I know one elderly couple who have done it but they have been here for 7 or 8 years and are both fluent French speakers.

[NormanH]

[quote user="martin"]

Since applying, I have asked around for other Brits' experiences of the procedure but have been most surprised to learn that nobody I know of has gone for it.

[/quote]

I am allergic to the process, although I would be a natural candidate otherwise.

I had even more horrific experiences applying for my first 'Carte de Séjour'

The queue as you describe, but 3 times!!

Once just to get in to get the forms (they don't have any available just to pick up)

A second time to 'Dépose le dossier'

 A third time to pick up the carte (they won't post it)

All this is a sous préfecture with I suspect, a higher number of non-EU immigrants than yours.

As I  am now virtually a cripple I can't face waiting with no-where to sit for 3/4 hours

see this blog for a similar experience

It has to be said that among Maghrebin and Eastern European friends of mine that particular bureau has a reputation for corruption, but I have no personal experience of that.

[chessfou]

[quote]I would be happy to pass on any info[/quote]

What would you estimate was the total cost of the process?

We have two years (+) to go before we can apply - the intention is to do so but maybe we need to start saving up ...

NormanH, the odd thing about the blog you link to is that the woman seems to be a million miles away from mastering the language - from what she says ("the brick wall that has become my ability to progress with the French language" and "an attestation from my French teacher stating that I have indeed made an attempt at butchering studying the French language since moving to France"), one would guess at a level of B1 CECR at best.

[Maricopa]

Unfortunately, like the woman in the blog and (I think) NormanH, it is Béziers I have to deal with when my 5 years is up, but I shall try[:-))]

[NormanH]

Good luck..I can honestly say that getting that Carte (and renewing it later) was the most unpleasant experience I have had in France.

It was also an eye-opener.

I saw just how badly treated the average 'immigrant' is, both in terms of the disgraceful conditions in which the whole business operates, and in the attitude of the officials

Most British people who have arrived since 2003 and the scrapping of the requirement for a 'Carte de Séjour' , or who live in a more rural part of France will have no idea.

[chessfou]

[quote]I saw just how badly treated the average 'immigrant' is, both in terms

of the disgraceful conditions in which the whole business operates, and

in the attitude of the officials[/quote]

Yes, we (generally) white-skinned, well-off (at least comparatively) West European immigrants have it easy in comparison with the rest - I've met some Hungarians and Lithuanians who have had a tough time here but I can't begin to imagine what it is like to be a poor immigrant, skin "bronzé" from the Maghreb or Senegal.

Les Anglais ne sont pas des Arabes comme les autres:

http://www.la-bas.org/article.php3?id_article=1239

http://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/em/labassijysuis/index.php?id=59647

[martin]

Hi Cooperlola - I really will be happy to give you a few pointers and dispel so much misinformation going around.  As long as you meet the basic criteria the procedure isn't difficult, but expect to go many months without hearing a thing.  Of course one needs to speak French, but only at general conversation level (like me).  Feel free to email me whenever you want.

 

Hi Chessfou - The cost is zero in admin charges, but you will need to fork out on official translation fees.  In our case as a family of four, total cost was about 450 euro.  This involved translating four birth certificates, also a previous marriage certificate and divorce papers.  If you don't have these certificates, they are easy enough to get hold of, but at a cost of about £25 each.

[martin]

Further to my last, translators charge what they want, so shop around.  I can certainly recommend the one I used, who I found after many quotes from others.