Do you care where your food comes from ?

[Dog]

Just been checking out some fish protection sites.

It seems every year 100 million tons of sharks are 'accidentally' caught in nets and die.

That's fishocide by any standard.

 

[woolybanana]

Shark is very good, grilled with a little lemon

[Dog]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Shark is very good, grilled with a little lemon[/quote]

 

Don't worry he's a troll.

Not too bright either as none of these 100,000,000 sharks will find their way to his stomach and the price will go up - but he doesn't care.

[Christine Animal]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

Christine, you can make various burgers such as half chick peas and half lentils, spiced with some cinnamon, say, some shallots.  Mix in an eggs and gently fry.  In fact, this was a recipe given to me by Chris Head and they are seriously yummy.

[/quote]

Thanks for that one Sweet.  So now we have curries, pasta, quiches and burgers.   [:)]

 

[woolybanana]

Pity, the only good place for a shark is on the braivleis.

[chrisb]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

WJT, Clair posted recently about veal with a label like "sous la mere" but I have not been able to find this type of veal.  I haven't eaten veal for at least 40 years and it's not something that I miss because I've forgotten what it tastes like.

[/quote]

There's a butcher in Bayeux who sells it - not eggsackly local for you but I believe it's available across a wider area. To be honest I couldn't say that it tasted any different from "normal" veal - but better welfare is still worthwhile.

In fact having looked at their website it does actually list suppliers.

[mint]

Chris, couldn't believe it when I looked at your site and found a butcher not 5 minutes from my house selling this veal!

It's a tiny village and nobody locally has ever mentioned this butcher to me.  That's including French friends who live near me.

So, thank you for this information.  I am truly grateful to you.

[Clair]

[quote user="sweet 17"]WJT, Clair posted recently about veal with a label like "sous la mere" but I have not been able to find this type of veal.  I haven't eaten veal for at least 40 years and it's not something that I miss because I've forgotten what it tastes like.[/quote]

This was the thread: http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/3/1530252/ShowPost.aspx#1530252 and it's the same website: http://www.veausouslamere.com/fr.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Dog"]

Just been checking out some fish protection sites.

It seems every year 100 million tons of sharks are 'accidentally' caught in nets and die.

That's fishocide by any standard.

 

[/quote]

Hmmm - but does in specify what type of shark ? 

There are approx 375 and 475 sharks species .....

[woolybanana]

I wonder if there is not a zero too many there?

[Dog]

[quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="Dog"]

Just been checking out some fish protection sites.

It seems every year 100 million tons of sharks are 'accidentally' caught in nets and die.

That's fishocide by any standard.

 

[/quote]

Hmmm - but does in specify what type of shark ? 

There are approx 375 and 475 sharks species .....

[/quote]

It defies logic to quibble over what sort of shark.

[Russethouse]

Not in the least, some may be small, numerous and commonly eaten, others may not be.....

[Dog]

[quote user="woolybanana"]I wonder if there is not a zero too many there?[/quote]

We can question the numbers - but even if it was one zero less it's still a lot of dead fish.

It seems another 73 million are killed and thrown away just to steal the fin.

I have deep misgivings about the glib and smug deniers of this rape of the seas.

[Scooby]

According to WWF's 2007 report, 7.8 million sharks are killed each year off the coast of SA alone, by hooks intended for other animals.

All shark meat is edible but shark is one of the most vulnerable fish stocks (because of the Asian demand for shark fin).  A good equivalent to shark meat is mahi mahi. Orange roughy should also be avoided due to over fishing (traditionally fished in New Zealand and Australia, orange roughy is now on the Australian threatened species list).  Good equivalents are dover sole or talipia.  Cod has already been mentioned (the impact on cod can be seen on the reduction of fillet sizes over the past few years - now about half the size they were a few years back.  We haven't eaten cod for 6 years or more because of this but choose coley instead.

[Frenchie]

What's the French for Coley?

At noon we're having " soles" , what s the situation of this delicious fish? ( from the market today early morning )

[Clair]

[quote user="Frenchie"]What's the French for Coley?[/quote]

Lieu noir (page 11 of this thread [:)])

[Frenchie]

oops, sorry Clair.. !

Merci .

I eat a lot of fish, maybe because I was born on a peninsula in the mediterranean , we used to have fish everyday..

And " oursins"..   Has anybody tried them?

When I was 3 , our next door neighbour, a fisherman, brought some to em every day, I loved them so much ( and still do).

 

 

et avant que quiquonque ne me rappelle que la pêche en est à présent réglementée, JE LE SAIS et ma famille le respecte !!

[Dog]

[quote user="Russethouse"]Not in the least, some may be small, numerous and commonly eaten, others may not be.....[/quote]

Your words are callous to the extreme what difference does their size make - do you only care if you can eat them.

[Russethouse]

Isn't the point that the term 'shark' applies to a huge group of fish, what did your stats refer to All fish in the shark group? Just endangered sharks ? Unless you qualify it, it is meaningless.

I'm off to get lunch - fish [:D]

[Dog]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

Isn't the point that the term 'shark' applies to a huge group of fish, what did your stats refer to All fish in the shark group? Just endangered sharks ? Unless you qualify it, it is meaningless.

I'm off to get lunch - fish [:D]

[/quote]

Why bother with the smug quip about your lunch - it's meaningless unless you qualify it...

All sharks of all species are endangered by modern fishing methods.

It seems your only qualitative choice is wether you can eat it.

100,000,000 dead sharks killed and not even eaten as a by-product of raping the seas to satiate fish eaters - you must be proud.

Do I have to name each shark before you will even give it some thought?

[Dog]

100,00,000 sharks are killed as bycatch (fisherman speak for things they didn't mean to catch) they discard these creatures.

I am sorry - I will ask - but somehow I do not think they will be prepared to supply you with a Power Point presentation on the exact species of each shark they discard .

They don't care.

Even more sharks are killed just for their fins - the body just tossed back into the ocean. France is in the top 4 countries that perpetrate this appalling and cruel waste of life.

It seems the fishermen don't care what species of shark the fin comes from and don't keep records.

As you do not have a list of all the exact species involved is this still meaningless to you?

[dragonrouge]

Dear Dog I really did think about my earlier responses not wishing to offend you and indeed I thought I was supportive of your positioning in all of this.  My position in respect of your beliefs has not change and I truly do accept you have a point and I respect your views.  But now to be blunt accept mine please.

This Wimbledon approach is never going to change my mind and certainly will never change yours.

Surely intelligent people will accept anothers standpoint and them move on but if you are on a mission that mission will fail and you would have achieved nothing save for thinking at least I tried.  But in so doing you have failed and the argument will never never succeed and in so doing you have firmly posted yourself here as an individual with a 'problem'

There is an argument that if you starve something of oxygen then it dies.  I will not respond further to your postings but here I continue to stress the RSA argument to which you have not responded as in SA red wine.

[Dog]

[quote user="dragonrouge"]

Dear Dog I really did think about my earlier responses not wishing to offend you and indeed I thought I was supportive of your positioning in all of this.  My position in respect of your beliefs has not change and I truly do accept you have a point and I respect your views.  But now to be blunt accept mine please.

This Wimbledon approach is never going to change my mind and certainly will never change yours.

Surely intelligent people will accept anothers standpoint and them move on but if you are on a mission that mission will fail and you would have achieved nothing save for thinking at least I tried.  But in so doing you have failed and the argument will never never succeed and in so doing you have firmly posted yourself here as an individual with a 'problem'

There is an argument that if you starve something of oxygen then it dies.  I will not respond further to your postings but here I continue to stress the RSA argument to which you have not responded as in SA red wine.

[/quote]

[ventodue]

[quote user="Frenchie"]

At noon we're having "soles" , what's the situation of this delicious fish? ( from the market today early morning ) [/quote]

Hi Frenchie,

A simple question with a fiendishly complicated answer!  You have been warned ...  Are you ready ...? [:)]

Factors to be considered are:

• Exactly which species is it - there are at least 2

• Where the fish has come from and how the fish is caught.

Dover Sole = 'Sole commune' (Solea solea) suffered badly from over-fishing off the British coast during the 80s and 90s, particularly in the Irish Sea and the Western Approaches.   Stocks have been recovering more recently, coincident with de-commissioning of vessels and reduction of days at sea.  However, the ICES (International Council for the Exploration of the Seas) still says:

"The stock is at risk of reduced reproductive capacity. The size of the spawning stock is above the limit level of 25,000 tonnes, but fishing mortality is too high. The stock is therefore at risk of being harvested unsustainably". http://www.ices.dk/marineworld/fishmap/ices/pdf/sole.pdf

As for the population in the Bay of Biscay - i.e. probably where your fish in 79 come from - in 2007 ICES said:

" Based on the most recent estimates, ICES classifies the stock as being at risk of reduced reproductive capacity.  The SSB (Spawning Stock Biomass  = The total weight of all sexually mature fish in the population) has declined from the high levels of 1992-94 ..... Based on the most recent estimates of fishing mortality, ICES classifies the stock as being harvested unsustainably." http://www.ices.dk/committe/acom/comwork/report/2007/oct/sol-bisc.pdf

The advice from MCS (Marine Conservation Society) is: "Avoid eating immature sole (less than 28cm) and fresh fish caught during the breeding season (April-June)."

Lemon sole = 'Limande-sole' (Microstomus kitt) is an unregulated fishery, so facts are very hard to find.  But this is what MCS say:

"Only stocks in Norwegian and North Seas are subject to mixed quota restrictions. <snip> Avoid eating immature fish (below 25 cm) and during its breeding period April-August."

How the fish (either species) are caught - commercially, that is - is also important.  Sole are bottom-dwellers and are mainly caught using a bottom trawl.  This system of fishing causes considerable damage to the sea floor - up to 50% of all bottom-living sea life is destroyed (ICES).  Trawling is banned in some waters off New Zealand and the UN Secretary General reported in 2006 that 95 percent of damage to seamount ecosystems worldwide is caused by bottom trawling.

Also, because bottom trawling is by nature non-selective, the discard levels can be truly horrendous.  Again, from ICES in 2008:

"The mixed fisheries for flatfish are dominated by a mixed beam trawl fishery using 80 mm mesh in the southern North Sea where up to 80%  of all plaice caught are being discarded. Measures to reduce discarding in the mixed beam trawl fishery would greatly benefit the plaice stock and future yields.  However, this would result in a short-term loss of marketable sole."

In France, sole is taken both as a by-catch of trawling for round-fish (cod, for example) and by gill-netting.  In your area:

"The French fixed-net fishery for sole, taking place mainly in the spawning season, has increased from less than 5% of landings prior to 1985 to around 60% in recent years. This shift between the fleets has resulted in a change of the selection towards older fish. The landings of sole in the Bay of Biscay are subject to a TAC (Total Allowable Catch) regulation. Estimated landings have frequently exceeded TACs, in particular in the years 2002–2006." ICES.

In 1974, sole landings in the Bay of Biscay were 2443 tonnes.  In 2006, it was 4514 tonnes.  The highest figures were in the mid '90s, peaking in 1994 at 7095 tonnes. (And these are the declared figures).

So, is the European or French sole fishery being responsibly managed?  I'd say, on balance, probably not ...

Amicalement

Craig

[Frenchie]

I think it was limande sole, so should be fine..

Thanks for your answer, very informative.

I'll take even more care next time..

It was delicious by the way, cooked in the oven " à l'Indienne" ..