Advice Needed - A Very Noisy Neighbour

[piplusone]

Some advice on how to effectively deal with a very noisy neighbour would be much appreciated. Five years ago our neighbour built a garage and later on a house on agricultural land next to us. He has a large collection of noisy machinery and vehicles including quads. These are very noisy but we accept this. The problem is his workshop radio which he plays at full volume usually evenings, weekends and holidays plus most of August. The bass beat invades our property, our garden and our heads. Long after the radio is switched off we can hear the bass beat in our heads. Frankly it’s now affecting our health. We need to do something.

I’ve spoken to him in person about the problem three times. His response on the last occasion was to “suggest that if I didn’t like the volume then I should return to the UK where I belong”. Obviously the language used was somewhat richer! On another occasion when I spoke to him he responded by sounding long blasts of the horn on his lorry at 04:00 in the morning everyday for over two weeks during July. He was starting work at 04:00 to avoid the summer heat. This Christmas holiday the radio was on from morning to evening without a break including all of Christmas day. He does not respect noise reduction during lunch times or Sunday afternoons.

We don’t feel this is a problem of our integration. We did notice the when our neighbour actually lived in the village he played loud music with scant regard to the houses very close around him. We’ve heard that a number of complaints have been made to the Marie about him. It doesn’t help that we are his only near neighbour thus the only ones regularly affected by his noise.

We would appreciate suggestions particularly from readers who might have experienced a similar noise problem. Thank you

[AnOther]

I can't quote you the actual law but there are most definitely rules about excessive and nuisance noise. The 4am in the morning horn is also, I'm pretty sure, in contravention of Code de la Route rules so a matter for the Gendarmes straight off.

You need to gather some hard evidence and present it to your Mairie. Video recordings with sound and a point of time reference such as a shot of the TV screen on a news channel with an onscreen clock for instance would be indisputable.

It sounds like he is well known for being noisy and antisocial, let's hope he's not the Mayors brother !

[Patf]

I can think of some solutions, but we're not allowed to recommend illegal measures on here [;-)]

But seriously, this sounds horrendous. I think sufferring from noise nuisance also comes under health and safety laws. So if your health is affected I believe you can sue, using written evidence from your doctor.

But you would need to confirm this first with an advocat.

[Dog]

Can't be pleasant. We have very noisy neighbours - owls - I wear earplugs to bed. Last year there were 12 owls sitting in the tree outside my window.

[NormanH]

Sell up and move.

[Swissie]

Piplusone  POST 1   - what a helpful welcome.

I am so sorry you have a real problem on your hands- and I so hope the Maire will help you. I am also sorry that your first post, with a genuine request for help- gets the sort of response above. Hope you do stay with us and get to know the many here who are really friendly and helpful. Bonne chance   Swissie.

[woolybanana]

Perhaps if you could ask Normie to pay a visit to your troublesome neighbour, he might understand that some fates are much, much worse than a noisy radio and pissing off the neighbour - he could have Normie next door.

[Gardian]

Sadly, blunt & unwelcome as it may be, Norman's advice mightn't be so far wide of the mark. Trouble is that moving is far from what you want to do, to say nothing of giving in the ******.

ANO's suggestion is spot on. Effectively, documented evidence of wrong-doing. You can't let these sort of people get you down and nag, nag, nag, nag, nag, nag at the Mairie for resolution of the problem. Every Saturday morning at precisely the same time (or whenever you know that your Maire is in situ), so that he / she begins to expect that you'll be round. In short, make yourself, as big if not a greater a nuisance to the Mairie, as this ***hole is to you. It'll be tiresome & time-consuming, but better than the cost of selling-up.

Don't give in - fight. 

p.s. there are laws, but don't hold your breath + expensive to take to Court  

[PaulT]

[quote user="NormanH"]Sell up and move.
[/quote]

Mmmm - so the antisocial get off scot free and the social ones have to put themselves out so the antisocial ones can carry on.

So I presume if someone is mugged, do not report it move away. If someone is raped do not report it move away - after all, the 'criminals' must not be stopped.

Norman I would hate to live in a World where you were King.

Paul

[nectarine]

I rarely agree with Norman as his posts are often blunt and to the point - but ultimately, regardless of whether you can get this resolved or not, you will always have a problem with this neighbour. You may get the law on your side to get him to turn down the noise, but he sounds the kind of chap who would get quiet and subtle revenge in other ways. So Norman has a point - you can pursue this by legal means and win but, in the end, the unpleasantness that remains will only ever be resolved by one of you leaving. It probably won't be him.

I'm just trying to expand upon what I think that NormanH is saying ...

[KathyF]

But if the noise is as bad as described, who would want to buy? It sounds as though it would be difficult to schedule viewings when the radio was off. [:(]

[Chancer]

[quote user="P2"]

[quote user="NormanH"]Sell up and move.
[/quote]

Mmmm - so the antisocial get off scot free and the social ones have to put themselves out so the antisocial ones can carry on.

So I presume if someone is mugged, do not report it move away. If someone is raped do not report it move away - after all, the 'criminals' must not be stopped.

[/quote]

Thats a mighty big assumption on the basis of three words regarding a radio.

[Frederick]

We’ve heard that a number of complaints have been made to the Marie about him. It doesn’t help that we are his only near neighbour thus the only ones regularly affected by his noise.

At what point does the failiour of the Marie to act to resolve a problem mean the matter can be referred up to a higher authority ?...I would have thought it was in the interest of the Marie not to have themselves come to notice for not being able to resolve disputes between people in their communes ..It reflects badly on them . A record of the number of visits to the Marie which have been ignored could be an embarrasment if in the end it all goes legal .

[P-D de Rouffignac]

First of all, my heartfelt sympathies for this situation which is stressful and intrusive. On the practical side, there is a comprehensive body of French law covering 'troubles de voisinage' (neighbour problems), including day and night time noise ('tapage nocturne'), music, DIY activities, noisy appliances, smells etc. You must, as suggested in some of the replies, make a formal complaint ('porter plainte') to the police and mairie, and if necessary consult an 'avocat' about formal legal action. The actions you desribe are both civil and criminal offenses, especially if - as they seem - they are deliberate and malicious, and are punishable by both fines or worse, and damages, plus an injunction to desist.

The is also a local mediation service ('médiateur du coin') but this requires reasonable goodwill on both sides to be effective, and may not be appropriate in the situation you describe.

I hope this goes some way to helping you resolve this problem - P-D de R.

[Lehaut]

Although not quite the same, we had a terrible problem with our immediate neigbour and her three large barking dogs which she left outside until (sometimes) 0400 in the morning.  This prevented me sleeping and also began to affect my health. We did the usual of speaking to her, but to no avail.  I spoke to the Gendarmes who told me to speak to the Maire.  Even though I am on our council, he did nothing so I took it back to the Gendarmes making a "Porte Plainte" each time. They "convocated" her three times asking her to visit the office to discuss the situation - she ignored them!

I kept a diary and made videos which I showed to the Gendarmes on each visit.  After several months I "politely" asked why they were doing nothing.  I was told that I had not made a complaint.  The "Porte Plaintes" were highlighted but I was told that this did nothing as I had to make a "Dépôt de Plainte" which involved me making an appointment with the Gendarmes and making a written statement.  This was then sent off to the Tribunal.  At the same time, the Gendarme (who I know quite well) advised me that each time the dogs began barking when the neigbour was out, I was to ring the Gendarmes and ask that the "Patrouille" be sent round to witness ("une Constatation")  the fact that the dogs were continuing to bark despite the "Portes",  "Dépôt" and "Convocations".  I would do this on my mobile phone standing next to the dogs barking asking the Gendarme at the main office if he could hear it (he could) and whether he thought this was normal (he did not).  After each visit, another "convocation" was issued.  We were treated to, on one visit, the Officers proposing to gas or shoot the dogs and they eventually drove them into the house (the doors were open) and then locked them in - all hoping that they could cr*p everywhere!

It took nearly a year and eventually it calmed down.  I would like to say that I had my day in court with the video and 4 hours of constant barking played to the Judge to see how he liked it, but the neigbour moved and calm was restored.

The French will not, as a rule (unless they come from Paris!!), complain.  Although all our neigbours in a several hundred meter radius could hear the dogs, they did nothing.  Some were willing to sign a petition and one other did visit the Mairie, other than that - squat!  Several asked on numerous occasions how we were getting on with the problem.  Your case will be greatly strengthend if you can get other signatures on a petition and or others to make a complaint. 

Our property is in the middle of a village, is quite large and we have cars etc, the worry of  retribution sat with me each night as she had several large gentlemen friends (mostly British!), but thankfully we remained safe - a consideration as we have a young family.

The frustration, anger, stress and upset cannot be easily communicated, stick with it and you will eventually prevail!

Bon Courage!

 

 

 

[NormanH]

[quote user="nectarine"]I rarely agree with Norman as his posts are often blunt and to the point - but ultimately, regardless of whether you can get this resolved or not, you will always have a problem with this neighbour. You may get the law on your side to get him to turn down the noise, but he sounds the kind of chap who would get quiet and subtle revenge in other ways. So Norman has a point - you can pursue this by legal means and win but, in the end, the unpleasantness that remains will only ever be resolved by one of you leaving. It probably won't be him.

I'm just trying to expand upon what I think that NormanH is saying ...[/quote]

You expanded it very well!

As I read the OP this neighbour used to live in the village, where he was  a nuisance to several other people who complained, but without much effect.

He now is near the OP is is causing a problem to them. If the villagers had little luck in making him change his ways, I reckon  the OP may be on a loser.

There are laws which could be invoked see:

http://www.interieur.gouv.fr/sections/a_votre_service/votre_securite/votre-domicile/nuisances-sonores

especially the bit "Bruits de voisinage

Vous êtes gêné par des bruits

persistants (cris, aboiements de chiens, chutes d'objets, etc.)

provoqués par un voisin.

En cas d'échec d'un règlement à l'amiable,

faites établir un constat par la police ou la gendarmerie ou par un

huissier.

Vous pourrez ensuite adresser une injonction par lettre

recommandée à l'auteur des bruits.

S'il n'y a aucune

amélioration, vous pourrez alors demander des dommages intérêts pour

trouble de jouissance auprès du tribunal d'instance de votre domicile

(procédure civile) ou porter plainte contre l'auteur des bruits

(contravention de tapage diurne ou injurieux, délit d'agression sonore).

-

Conflit de voisinage

Les rapports entre voisins dégénèrent

parfois.

Vous disposez de recours. Renseignez-vous auprès de la

mairie, du tribunal d'instance ou du tribunal de grande instance de

votre domicile.

Si le conflit dégénère en menaces ou voies de

fait (jet d'objets notamment de détritus, dégradation sur vos biens tels

que pneus crevés, etc.), portez plainte auprès du commissariat de

police ou à la brigade de gendarmerie."

But in my experience that path is can be a bit of a boomerang especially for foreigners.

PDF has a point about "Mediation" which I have suggested before  on this board, but it tends to be more developed in larger towns than in the country.

For example:

http://www.ville-beziers.fr/beziers_pratique/08.cfm

[michelin79]

Piplusone (or can I call you 4.142....), I can't offer any more advice than the more knowledgeable above but I can offer my sincere sympathies to you. I hope that you don't have to initially follow the advice of the "sell up and move" brigade and look forward to a future post where you report that you have successfully followed some of the other advice that has been given. Perhaps you may be able to report that your evil neighbour has mysteriously died (of natural causes of course).

[Frederick]

I think I would be trying an official sounding letter from a local law firm full of "What might happen to you's  if you dont pack it " in about now !

[NormanH]

[quote user="Frederick"]I think I would be trying an official sounding letter from a local law firm full of "What might happen to you's  if you dont pack it " in about now ![/quote]

I would have thought that the procedure advised by the Interior

Ministry that I quoted above might be a good idea, since we are in

France.

Make a statement of facts to the Gendarmarie or a Huissier  and ask them to witness it for themselves

Send an injunction by registered letter

If there is no change, you can either go to the Civil court and demand

damages or go make a complaint to the Gendarmarie for délit d'agression

sonore

But then, what do I know...

What you really need is  useful comments such as :

"I am so sorry you have a real problem on your hands"

"Perhaps you may be able to report that your evil neighbour has

mysteriously died (of natural causes of course)"

or even less useful

"Norman I would hate to live in a World where you were King."

[Frederick]

I am sure you are right Norman...but perhaps some people dont want to take on so much hassle going down the Interior Ministry and Gengarmarie route when a legal letter warning what may be expected if the behaviour continues might be all it takes.

[Swissie]

Sadly, somehow, Piplusone seems to have given up on us. Bonne chance and hope you come back to talk to us. xx

[Gardian]

[quote user="Swissie"]Sadly, somehow, Piplusone seems to have given up on us. [/quote]

Yes, and sadly too, it happens all the time. 

[Gardian]

[quote user="Lehaut"]

The French will not, as a rule (unless they come from Paris!!), complain.  Although all our neigbours in a several hundred meter radius could hear the dogs, they did nothing.  Some were willing to sign a petition and one other did visit the Mairie, other than that - squat!  Several asked on numerous occasions how we were getting on with the problem.  Your case will be greatly strengthend if you can get other signatures on a petition and or others to make a complaint.  [/quote]

Well said - never a truer word spoken.

Our (lovely) neighbour, who was more affected than us by a similar, but nowhere near as bad a problem, said to me "You really need to get round there and speak to them".  So I did.  Nobody there, except the dog, which was a nice chap, just lonely. Left a note, with my name, house no & phone no. Phone call that night & amicable discussion - problem now 90% fixed.

Would that it were that easy for the OP.   

[Lehaut]

Digressing but following Gardian's point, the three dogs (labradors) next to us would hurl themselves at the PVC double gates at the entrance to the property, salavating and barking in a most menacing way when people walked passed.  Very frightening for older people who walked in the village and terrifying for children.  The house is on the road to the bakers so there was quite a bit of pedestrian traffic from the estate above us.  One French families answer to the problem was to ban  their young children from walking past and told them to take an alternate longer route!   Could not persuade him to visit the Maire. 

[Chancer]

On my walk to the Boulangerie there is on average 13 dwellings (yes I used to count) where dogs launch themselves at you in the way you describe, some are very cunning and have developed it into an art form, one in particular lies in wait and rushes between the conifers to attack the fence at eye level not 12" from your head.

C'est normal in my village, without that the dogs would be bored out of their skull and get no exercise.

I still cant see the attraction in owning a dog to leave him alone all day, all night and throughout les vacances knee deep in crap on a 6m2 piece of concrete but they all do, as soon as one of the dogs breaks they rush out to buy another one which the children will promenade around once on a lead before it takes up the existence of its predecessor.

Funnilyenough  their children are treated in a similar manner, "if these ones break or are taken into care we will have some more" [:(]