We are debating on a move to France. Any advice appreciated!

[Panda]

[quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="Panda"][quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="Panda"]

The biggest issue most people face is having ''dropped out' of the job market in the UK your CV doesn't look great on return (if no job or low skilled job for more than a year) and it is likely you will not be able to pick up your career where you left it and will end up in a lower paid job.  It also depends on your age.

[/quote]

Even if you have a great CV you will struggle to get a job in UK if you have been out of the UK job market for any length of time, if you are 40 / 45 + you can generally forget it, unless you are very senior in your field.
[/quote]

In my very current experience, it's not quite that bad that you should forget it.  I'm doing exactly this after 6 years, I'm lucky that I have been working on contract for a UK company during my time here so have no break in employment and so am stepping back in at my previous level with the same company on a permanent basis.

My OH though hasn't worked a great deal here but has still got some options, not in his orignal field though and for less money, hence my previous post.

Panda

[/quote]

Not quite the same though is it Panda?, you are a known employee going back into the same Company with, as you say, no break in employment. Its substantially different to 'coming in from the cold' to a new employer who knows nothing about you (or you him).

I do speak from a degree of experience in this respect, before being 'head-hunted' into my present job I had actively searched the European job market and discovered the hard way that the experience of age is generally offset by that very age that allowed the experience.
[/quote]

Hence me stating the situation with my OH who is in exactly that position.

[jon]

Will reminde everyone that I feel that we all have a chance to be happy in France.

When I first came to this Forum most people tried desperatly hard to tarn ish my dream and say that I was in the "HONEY-MOON PERIOD"....so terribly sorry but I felt that France was a better place for me!My own country is behaving like a reckless school boy;so many difficulties and very difficult for me to carry on with my profession.

I found that being good at something was not good enough.

I never crush peoples dreams. We never know an individuals circumstances and qualities.It appears to me that people who are proficient and gifted are apprecieted here.Those who are lazy and without motivation will find it very hard.Perhpas in Uk some such people will slip through the net.

 

[Sprogster]

jon, the big difference is that I assume you do not have school age children, you brought with you? It is one thing to make a decision to fulfill your dreams, that only impacts on you if it does not work out, but it is totally different consideration where you are taking a potential risk where your childrens education and future is concerned.  In my life I have made many decisions as a parent, that probably would have been totally different if I was single and care free.

France has many advantages over the UK, but clearly education does not seem to be one of them and to quote Michael Caine, " Not a lot of people know that"!

[Russethouse]

jon, I think you ignore the fact that many French move to the UK looking for opportunity is a less hidebound system. If you train as a bank clerk in France that is what you will stay.

It's up to each parent to decide whether to risk their child's education to follow their own dream.

[jon]

I understand what you are saying....I here it.

Agree in some ways....yes you are responsible.

But each child has his or own destiny and it does not begin in one place and end in the same.

Take a look at the career of Michael Cain....his father was a wlorking in the Fish market!
A bank clerk will remain a bank clerk if that is in there path.Straight thoughts without any spirit of adventure!
The poor do not have to stay poor......and the rich can loose their wealth....we follow a path carved out with our thoughts.

ALL the things which I have done in my life are not related to the way my parents directed me.I took a walk towards my own garden.

 

[KathyF]

[quote user="jon"] A bank clerk will remain a bank clerk if that is in there path.Straight thoughts without any spirit of adventure!
The poor do not have to stay poor......and the rich can loose their wealth....we follow a path carved out with our thoughts.

ALL the things which I have done in my life are not related to the way my parents directed me.I took a walk towards my own garden. [/quote]

Not sure you understood what was meant, jon.  In France a bank clerk will remain a bank clerk because the system has no provision for retraining and a bank clerk doesn't have suitable skills for self-employment. As for your generalisation about the poor and the rich - if only life were so simple. Millions of people in France work hard and yet remain poor because they are trapped in low-paid jobs which barely cover outgoings. [:(]

[krusty]

[quote user="KathyF"]Not sure you understood what was meant, jon.  In France a bank clerk will remain a bank clerk because the system has no provision for retraining and a bank clerk doesn't have suitable skills for self-employment. 

 [:(][/quote]

I do not know anything about employment in France.

But surly the bank clerk could become a taxi driver or a driving instructor or any number of jobs if they choose too ?

 

[Quillan]

Over the last few days I have been popping in to the forum when I can to catch up on this thread which is rather fascinating and only now have a little time to add my thoughts so here goes and not in any particular order and not picking on anyone's particular comments.

A couple of comments from early on in the thread gave been running around in my head because in my eight years of living in France (and still not understanding or knowing it or its people fully) some of these myths need to be exercised.

The first thing is that outside of the four major cities many people are quite poor and is some cases very poor. Many have no work and currently France and the UK official unemployment figures are about the same and growing daily (sources UK National statistics office website and France 24 website). Somebody said the worse is yet to come in both France and Europe although it would seem from these two websites that the prognosis is that it will be the same for the UK as well, peeking in both places at the end of 2010. This is worth mentioning because it leads on to the next couple of subjects which are materialism and French way of life.

I loved the comment about the French enjoying good food, did anyone stop to think that it might be food in general as in some are so poor that they really enjoy food, any food when its put in front of them.

Another comment was French people loving their work, working with a passion and fixing holes in their roof. I think its more that they love being able to work and often on the black whilst still claiming social. Many would love to have new roof but if they own their property they probably can't afford one and if they rent the landlord can't be bothered. Who the hell looks forward to getting up at six to tend the vines, its a job that has to be done and its paid and mainly because in the summer its impossible to work in the main part of the day as its to hot.

Yes of course the French are materialistic but its within the bounds of their earnings which are lower. Many wear their wealth but do so not in away that draws too much attention. Look at the kids with their mobile phones, just the same as the UK. I see a lot from round here at the bus stop in the morning with their Nokia N95's (I would like one but they don't come cheap) and I know their parents are scratching round for work. Their materialism is just different to ours but it does not mean they don't have any.

Friendship is something mentioned and I agree with the person who said they can count their close friend almost on one hand. I have a couple of very close friends, I have a few more ordinary friends and a lot of acquantancies as I prefer to call them. Somebody else mentioned about how difficult it was to make friends with the French and they are right. Yes I have a few French friends but you have to keep in mind that we (Brits) are pretty low down on the ladder. One job, two people same qualifications or even better the Brit has better qualifications than the French person, the Brit also speaks perfect French, who gets the job, the French person, they look after their own. Of course they will talk to you and smile, refer to you in the familiar especially when you are buying something. Try taking it back and asking for a refund.

Try going a few km down the road and visit the grotty bar where the local workers drink if you are fluent in French and have a beer and listen. Better still take an English paper and ask for a beer in your worse French then sit in the corner behind your paper and listen. Don't forget its us and our flash money that have pushed the house prices up so the young can't afford to buy. We send people over from the UK to get operations in their hospitals at their expense. Not actually true of course but its what many think.

Of course they will come to your house for a meal or coffee, its called being nosey, something not just the reserve of us Brits.

Not many criminals in France especially in rural areas, another myth. About 12 homes have been broken in to within a 30km circle of where I live in the last 4 months. The only person making money at the moment is 'Piere' who's buying burglar alarms from the DIY shop and fitting them for an huge profit and probably on the black. Our local Bank had an armed guard outside the other month for a couple for weeks because somebody tried to smash their way in and steel the money from the ATM. Turns out they tried the other bank round the corner as well. It appears they have learnt from the Brits, they use the excellent autoroute network to get around doing robberies all over the region. This lot came from Montpelier about 2 hours away if you drive very fast.

Police/Gendarmes are just as corrupt as the UK if you believe what you read. Running two books for speeding, one for cash and the other for cheques. The cheques go to the station and the cash in their pockets. This has been documented in French newspapers.

French politicians don't have expenses claim scams like in the UK. No, they simply get the brown envalope at the end of every month with shed loads of money in it (source 60 Million French men can't be wrong).

France has even more government employees than the UK and they all get to retire at 50 with an excellent 'golden' pension.

The place I live is special. Most of the people on the forum think that where their house is, is special, thats why they bought there.

I could go on and on after reading this thread. I am not saying France is a bad place its just thats its no different from anywhere else and has its own problems be them different ones.

The best tip to the OP is what somebody else has already said, rent your house out in the UK then rent here for year and see how you get on before doing anything perminant. Just don't think its going to be all pink and fluffy over here because its not although there are worse places you could live, America being one [;-)] . (Only joking)

 

[jon]

In my area no one works for less than 10 euros per hr...by cheque emploi.

My cousin in Lincolnshire earns min wage per hour and her "boss" is not paying any tax.She has tried to find a different job but [she is a chambermaid]and everyone is taking-on the young polish ladies.So my cousin brings home around 100 pounds per week.Her son is a builder who earns around 10 pounds per hour.

I have two french friends who own vineyards and they get up at 6.30 every week day.....but we managed to have dinner together on Mon night and enjoy ourselves untill about 12...pm.It is called puntuation of life.Are they happy?They seem very contented

The artisan builders in my area are very busy and earning well!Dissapointed that British people are around?When people enter the community with interest and stimulating ideas which focus on local economy that can only be positive!The Brits raised the house prices?And the FRENCH from other regions,The Dutch,the South Africans.....the Italians[half of my village is from Italian descent]and so on.It is all in the nature of the property market.

I will say once more;life is related to motivation and all the choices are ours.Running/operating a chambre d hote is not everyones dream job but choose the RIGHT area and do it well then it can create an acceptable life style.Not a 3.000 pounds a week job in the city of London.But those jobs are not as cosy as they seem

The French do go to UK...but most of them return to France!

Time to serve breakfast to my group of people from Rheims.

[Cerise]

I assume jon that you know no employed people, as huge numbers of the French population in all areas earn the SMIC, and many others are on contracts of perhaps only 25 hours a week.  Very few people work cheque emploi full time.

[Cat]

[quote user="jon"]

In my area no one works for less than 10 euros per hr[/quote]

Cerise beat me to it.

According to Insee the average net annual salary for an ouvrier working full time in Aquitaine is 16,507 €, so assuming they get paid for 52 weeks of 35 hours, that's just 8.77 € per hour (and even less for an employee).

http://insee.fr/fr/themes/tableau.asp?reg_id=99&ref_id=CMRSEF04124

[chessfou]

[quote]France has even more government employees than the UK and they all get to retire at 50 with an excellent 'golden' pension.[/quote]

How many errors in one sentence?

UK: public sector employment rose every year to 5,846,000 in June 2005

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1292

FR: l'État emploie 3,08 millions d'agents au 31 décembre 2006.

http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/document.asp?ref_id=agents06

but you do have to add about 1M health workers.

http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/tableau.asp?reg_id=0&ref_id=NATTEF06103

Anyway, it is well-known (as oppsed to the "well-known" myth that preaches the opposite) that both the number and % of PS employment is greater in the UK (and has been so for a decade or so).

As regards the retirement at 50 (which certainly applies to some), our médecin traitant gets to retire at 65.

(edited several times within a couple of minutes of posting because there are some incompatibilities between the forum software and the Chrome browser - especially for quotes and links - so I had to fire up Firefox to reformat accordingly)

[jon]

I kn ow all sorts of people Cerise and I can see that they are managing.

I watched people in London struggling with their overdfrafts which sat unsteadily on top of their mortgages[borrowing way above their power of paying back] on top of that came numerous   credit cards been juggled like a performance in a circus act.Some people looked rather wealthy with their 2 smart cars,large \cars and kids in private schools......wives in dressess from London designers.But suthering from a new virus called "greed"

French people can join in on that life style if they so wish.It is all mind over matter!Here the poor...and those who like good food grow a lot of their own fruit and veg....a great activity.We inherited cherry,apples,pears,mirabells,figs and we have raspberries,redcurrants and blackberries.We are hoping that lots of our planatations will bare fruit....but our soil is really in tune with grapes.....and roses.So most of the year I have lovely flowers for the rooms and tables.

So how I see things is how I find them.Even though much of the farmework of British society is crumbling it is the British attitude to expect;greatness and godliness from the politicians and everlasting prosperity.Look to friends for the comfort of conversation and shareing....look at yourself to define your life.

 

 

[jon]

PS..................I note that you constantly make reference to low earners in France!!!!!
And fail to reflect on what goes on in other countries!!!!
There are and always will be people who will make things work and others who will expect things to work for them.Making Uk look so glam as it offers housing and benefits to everyone who embarks on its shores.If you are a self made person in Uk.....struggling to make ends meet because your savings are not yielding.....have a good look and see what sort of help is on offer in this situation.

[Russethouse]

Here the poor...and those who like good food grow a lot of their own fruit and veg....a great activity

I think you'll find it is not such a great activity when you have to do it,  I don't think you can realise how patronising you sound ?

[Cerise]

I make reference because I CARE.  The poverty here shocks me.  Most people I know here (as in UK) are salaried, and being in rural France the salaries are low whatever their occupation - that is reality.  These people are not lazy, nor do they think the world owes them a living, but many are scraping and scrimping all the time despite having full time jobs.  That is depressing.  Of course they don't spend all their time moaning about it, but they are constantly worried and juggling money.  I know there is poverty in other countries UK included but I'm not currently living there.  I help people fill in their applications for ASPA and other benefits, I deal with the folk who can't pay their bills - and believe me most of them aren't feckless.  There will always be feckless people everywhere but they are the minoirty.  I lived much of my life in a little village in Cornwall before coming here and there was poverty but not so much.  The elderly, particularly ladies who may not have paid many if any cotisation, the inheritance system which makes anyone old who wants to sell up and live somewhere smaller feel they are betraying their families etc, etc makes life very difficult for many.

I am very glad you are happy in your new life.  I hope that all those who decide to come here make a go of it and are happy. I just think it is patronising to assume that those who are having a hard time are hopeless or lazy and that all those who grow a few vegetables are deliriously happy.  If people really want to come here they won't be put off by a few negative comments.  If you accept a place for what it is, and still like it warts and all, then you stand a good chance of being happy.

[jon]

Russethouse...how partronising!

Not at all...I would say that we all have to make an effort!Use our own tools;our energy and our imagination!We are not all born from the same stock.Not everyone is the child of a lawyer,ex army official with the knowledge that if something goes wrong with our financial welfare that we can  go to daddy asky for a peice of his estate or a 100k.

Everything I ever had and have has been created by me.Coming from a background which you all have described so vividly as just about providing meals [MY paprents where  in their        rented council property at the mercy of a very undesireable and sordid hospital in London.]More than many of you I know about reality as much as I.

But this just underpins what I say.We make our own life....especially if we come from poorer backgrounds.

By the way....I am living here ...actually living here ...not with a maison secondaire.

Will I ever live in UK again....who knows.

[Lori]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

I think you'll find it is not such a great activity when you have to do it,  I don't think you can realise how patronising you sound ?

[/quote]

I couldn't agree more.

And yeah, what Cerise said !

[carmelle]

[.

So how I see things is how I find them.Even though much of the farmework of British society is crumbling it is the British attitude to expect;greatness and godliness from the politicians and everlasting prosperity.Look to friends for the comfort of conversation and shareing....look at yourself to define your life.]

I share your opinion

Very relevant thoughts  

[jon]

There are somany things in life which WE have to do in order to live.For those who stack shelves in Tesco[if they an get the jobs1] is that so inviting?

My sister in law stacks food products for    M and S  works     through   the night  in order to achieve  a more feesable     salary and in her spare time is studying and looking after her children.So what is wrong with growing fruit and vegetables?

I understand how that most of you are pre conditioned and believe that life is clearly definde and every puzzle fits together as if by magic.So how many of you orginate from poor homes and understand peverty?

H ow many of you can truely compare YOUR poverty in UK to your neigbours poverty in France?

 

[carmelle]

But very often Jon ,those who were very poor in their childhood , are those who are very envious, jalous  ,  when they are adults ,even if they earn much money .

I have never understood that .

 

[powerdesal]

[quote user="jon"]

Not at all...I would say that we all have to make an effort!Use our own tools;our energy and our imagination!We are not all born from the same stock.Not everyone is the child of a lawyer,ex army official with the knowledge that if something goes wrong with our financial welfare that we can  go to daddy asky for a peice of his estate or a 100k.

But this just underpins what I say.We make our own life....especially if we come from poorer backgrounds.

By the way....I am living here ...actually living here ...not with a maison secondaire.

[/quote]

As an ex Army (and RAF) officer I trust my children dont read this and expect that they can go to daddy expecting anything, they will be sadly dissappointed at the lack of estate etc.

Believe it or not, but a lot of Military Officers actually do come from poorer backgrounds. The days of buying a Commission are long gone, its been on merit for many many years.

In pedant mode, I believe the correct term is residence secondaire, not maison secondaire, but why be picky?

[jon]

Not too sure how individuals classify "poor." Having a maison secondaire does not equate.

But I am sure that you have created a cosy life-style by moving in a positive direction....which proves another point...that the poor do not need to stay poor forever.

[KathyF]

[quote user="jon"] ......which proves another point...that the poor do not need to stay poor forever.[/quote]

So the fact that the majority of the world's population is poor is simply their own fault, is it, jon?  Give me strength! [:@]  You obviously live on a different planet from the rest of us.....

[jon]

Kathy I think you know exactly what I mean!

We are discussing the vertues of moving from UK to France and that most people have an opportunity to learn a skill or develope a quality which is alllrelady within them.Please refrain for this almost hostile attitude.

THE subject in matter envelopes the idea of someone wanting/contenplaiting a move to France from Uk.