Jazzer Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 There may be a light:##The following makes inteesting reading. http://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/10/1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I sadly think there is no way round it and will try to find a health policy that will cover me. I have gone through the panic stage, and feel defeated. May be clutching at straws but how about a MEP taking up the gauntlet.But there is no way am I going back to cold, miserable and tax happy blighty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chassaing Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 [quote user="ams"]A friend of ours has just bought an apartment by the sea. The people selling the apartment gave them the name and details of the cleaning lady who cleans the apartment part time. They have done everthing legal and pay all contributions to the French state. I wonder would it be possible for each of us to become an employee and an employer by cleaning each others respective houses on a part time basis, sufficient to meet the requirements to have access to the CMU. ams[/quote]Hi ams,Great idea! Good piece of lateral thinking, and providing the work was done, more than no problem it would be business. You could set up a group where one did the gardening, one did the cleaning and one did the ironing etc. Yes, I'm sure the French authorities would see it as a fiddle if the work wasn't being done. From my research, it would cost about 235-250 Euros minimum in contributions (not fully reasearched). As of today, we now pay 270 Euros/month for a similar level of health cover for both of us. The garden and house will still be done, and may I suggest that it is less fuss and paperwork and lump sum payments early in the financial year (so I hear). One thing that isn't known as yet is the actions Mr Sarkozy is going to take with the French Nationals to claw back all the deficits, to the contributions are likely to rise for them. Lastly, the health issue is only a pert of the immigration/status issue is being discussed. No matter how the French Nationals see us, guests or equals, the sick and retired don't deserve the current treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 That is excellent news for those of us who have been here for over 5 years, let's hope it becomes reality. We must continue to fight for those who may not be as fortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 [quote user="Jay"]We must continue to fight for those who may not be as fortunate.[/quote]Amen to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Do you get the impression that the French Government are making this up as they go along? As I said sometime back, surely there was a purpose to this legislation as there should be to any legislation in any country and it should have had an objective. Was the objective to control immigration into France by stopping non-working people from coming to France? By stopping them being part of the healthcare system or was it to reduce the burden, if there ever was one, of non French on the French Healthcare system? Either way with the supposed concessions of those with 5 year residency and possibly pre-existing conditions not covered by an E121 being exempted, you wonder just who will really be excluded and if the costs of administrating it all will in fact be more than they actually save by excluding a few hundred Brits.What it hasn't done and will not do is pick up the hundreds of Brits winging it here, paying no income tax or contributions to the Healthcare system, buying any drugs (that are at a subsidised price) needed for minor ailments and hoping that they can get any emergency treatment on an EHIC registered to the in-laws in Dorking or Doncaster. When they do get caught out all the French have done in the past is make them join the CMU at that time, some after ten years.I will be interested to see if Cartes de Sejour are just issued now, they were not before, you had to prove income etc If the French have a problem with the Brits not paying their way its their own fault, the French should do stop being so glad that the Brits are actually paying some tax and joining the CMU and start asking why they have been here 10 years and have not done so for the past nine[:@] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derf Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/01/nexpats101.xml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chassaing Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 [quote user="Ron Avery"]Do you get the impression that the French Government are making this up as they go along? As I said sometime back, surely there was a purpose to this legislation as there should be to any legislation in any country and it should have had an objective. Was the objective to control immigration into France by stopping non-working people from coming to France? By stopping them being part of the healthcare system or was it to reduce the burden, if there ever was one, of non French on the French Healthcare system? Either way with the supposed concessions of those with 5 year residency and possibly pre-existing conditions not covered by an E121 being exempted, you wonder just who will really be excluded and if the costs of administrating it all will in fact be more than they actually save by excluding a few hundred Brits.[/quote]I agree, if this was purely a healthcare issue, it looks like the FG has messed up as all the 8% contributions will be disappearing in March and the others could well be forced back into the system. However, I feel this is an Immigration Issue, using healthcare to close the door. All I hope is that the people who need the care get it! Because that is the reason why our parents and us have paid into a system somewhere in Europe for so many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Seems the "good news" newsletter on the IFP website has been removedhttp://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/10/1Let's hope they haven't changed their minds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 [quote user="derf"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/01/nexpats101.xml[/quote]I am not sure I understand about this family's circumstances. OK, Mrs is on some sort of invalidity pension and Mr has "a heart problem" (we are not told what problem, how severe, etc.)How do they expect to live entirely on the money that Mrs gets from the UK state? A family of four? Her allowances must be pretty good.Also, they claim to pay 200 euros "into the French system"? How is this money paid? Is it in the form of 8% on their income (from whatever source?) And do they have top-up insurance and, if so, how do they manage to pay it?I'm not being controversial and I certainly do not question the fact that this family have obviously been managing OK in France. I'd just like to know HOW?Went to our French class today and the teacher was talking about how the Brits benefit who have not "contributed into the system". She is by no means a right-wing Sarkozy admirer, in fact, quite the contrary. How have we or the French understood things so wrongly?This is just a thought on reading the article. I am new to France, do not know or understand that much about French life but would dearly like to learn more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 She is on a police pension, Sweet 17, not benefits (otherwise she'd have an E121 - although I must say, I'm a little surprised she doesn't qualify for one). That is probably reasonably high as far as normal living expenses are concerned, but I doubt if she'd be able to afford private insurance for the whole family - that's the point (and it wouldn't help her with her existing conditions.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 CoopsI see.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bezarderie Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I am confused by one aspect of these changes and don't think I have seen reference to it anywhere.On what grounds have the French government decided that an E106 issued by the UK government is no longer acceptable in France and how do they justify this decision?I have no idea what the answer is but I think we should be told. Lin Norton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommier Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 The E106 is still acceptable and always has been. The problem arises when the E106 expires.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertiebe Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 [quote user="Jay"]Seems the "good news" newsletter on the IFP website has been removedhttp://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/10/1Let's hope they haven't changed their minds![/quote]Don't know if this is the same one but just moved...? http://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/9/14/health/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makfai Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 [quote user="Bertiebe"][quote user="Jay"]Seems the "good news" newsletter on the IFP website has been removedhttp://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/10/1Let's hope they haven't changed their minds![/quote]Don't know if this is the same one but just moved...? http://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/9/14/health/[/quote]No that is an earlier one.If you look at http://forums.french-property.com/public-services-f10/rule-changes-on-health-cover-t1062.html?sid=8af5b5ce01884152efaca7a9d1c9cbc8&start=10then the post on 1.10.07 refers to the 'Newsletter' and the 'cracks beginning to show'. That is the one which has disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessfou Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Still there as far as I can see:http://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/10/1/health/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bezarderie Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I was under the impression that new arrivals to France, intending to stay for longer than three months, will need 100% private health cover. Have I misunderstood what is being said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 La bezarderie, I've moved your posts out of the "breaking news" thread into this one, as this is the place for discussions and questions surrounding the new health care changes.I think that you have misunderstood these changes, it might help to read this http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1035025/ShowPost.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 [quote user="la bezarderie"]I was under the impression that new arrivals to France, intending to stay for longer than three months, will need 100% private health cover. Have I misunderstood what is being said?[/quote]New arrivals will need proof of health cover, which can be through one of the following:- if you have an E121, then you can affilliate to the French state system without any limitation.- if you have an E106, then you can affiliate to the French state system until such time as the E106 expires, then you must transfer to full private cover.- if you have no E-form, then you must obtain private cover from day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bezarderie Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I had misunderstood re: the E106. So the problems will start after 2 years if people aren't covered by an E121 or are not fully subscribed into the French system?It would be interesting to know if research was carried out prior to the changes to the law being enacted in order to assess what degree of hardship could occur. It would also be interesting to know what degree of consultation took place with the DWP in the UK.If the product i.e. comprehensive private health care is not yet available from French insurance/assurance companies and people whose E106's run out soon have to find immediate cover, I would have thought a longer change over period could have been scheduled.Reading through a translation of the EU directive, it would seem that people who don't manage to find cover, could be asked to leave France.I would welcome clarification on the last point from someone who knows more than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Whether you can or cannot be asked to leave France, depends upon how EU law views this. However, it might be the only option if you developed an illness you could not pay to have treated. If you are uninsured and receive expensive care, then logically, as you would not be covered by the state healthcare system, then those treating you would, presumably, be able to recover their money by demanding that you sell any property/investments which you have, to pay your bills. "If you cannot afford private insurance, go back where you came from and get free treatment in the country you were born in" appears to me to be the message.[:@] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Framboise Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 "If you cannot afford private insurance, go back where you came from and get free treatment in the country you were born in" Shame that doesn't apply to the UK then. Sarkozy appears to have more of a spine than Gordy & Co have, enough guts to tell it how it is then implement it, irrespective of whether some people don't like it. At least he stands up for His People.As emigrees next year we fully accept that we must join the system when we leave England, its never been an issue nor have we questioned its validity. Thats simply how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaJ Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 What system is that Framboise? The old one or the new one? As it stands you could be joining the state system for a bit, coming out and using private insurance for a bit (and hoping you don't get too ill in the meantime) and then going back in when you get to 60. I simply cannot see how this process is efficient or helpful for anyone. I would also still like to know what the actual deficit from "non-actifs" is. Does anybody know? If 8% of income is not enough then surely it should be possible to pay more and stay in the state system? Having read elsewhere that the E106 /121 per person contribution from UK to France is some 3,600€ per year, might this be a starting point? I would much rather pay this to the state system than to a private insurance company.regardsLisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makfai Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 [quote user="chessfou"]Still there as far as I can see:http://www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/10/1/health/[/quote] Back up again Eh? The thick plottens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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