Re: Latest Health care Entitlement discussion

[cooperlola]

Interesting that the Dutch are following the same route, Gus.

At least this site is making people aware of what is going on, even if it is just a gateway to the insurance industry - who are going to make a fair bit of cash out of us.

[MrCanary]

That is the annoying thing - profit from other people's misfortunes.

I have just filled in an on-line application form with an international broker from that website. They have promised a quote within 24 hours. Having privately shared with you my wife and my details - I will PM you with the quote I receive...

[Chassaing]

[quote user="Gus Arasput"]

That is the annoying thing - profit from other people's misfortunes.

I have just filled in an on-line application form with an international broker from that website. They have promised a quote within 24 hours. Having privately shared with you my wife and my details - I will PM you with the quote I receive...

[/quote]

Good point Gus.

What annoys me is there are a load of normal hard working people in France who have paid their dues in UK and France, and now that they need cover or treatment, they are being told to go elsewhere and even though they might not be accepted.   Well done Mary Honeyball MEP you get my vote!

[Quillan]

I don't see any harm in getting quotes but actually signing up with somebody at present is not such a good idea in my book.

Like many I have sent my forms in as usual and am checking the post each day for my letter to say I am still affiliated to CPAM and till when (usually in my personal case it's October to October). There has been a lot written in threads on this forum and others, there has also been a lot of stuff on other sites and in newspapers. Whilst not burying my head in the sand and hoping it will all go away I think it best to wait and see what really happens.

The only two people I know for sure who have been rejected where the two people who got letters and posted in our forum. It now seems reasonable to assume given the details from the French government websites that their rejection was not necessarily anything to do with the new law as it is clear that they should have at least had cover till April 2008 and that the new law, according to what I have read in posts here and elsewhere, does not seem to take effect till the end of this month. One, if memory serves me was changing to an E121 which could have been an administrative cock-up and the other was trying to enter the system for the first time and may not have met the standard requirements or there was something wrong with their paperwork.

By all means continue to gather information and share it but I still think it's best to carry on as normal and to wait and see.

[cooperlola]

Quillan, I agree.  My insurance broker specifically advised me NOT to get full cover yet for this reason.  In summary he said, "some CPAMs may well renew your Carte Vitale for another couple of years, depending upon how each one interprets the regulations.  If you're offered and extension, take it and keep quiet."  But I guess if you are not in the CMU and your E106 has run out, then you may feel you have no choice.  But I think I would still trying "playing innocent" and trying to get into the system by the previously "normal" route.

I imagine though that Gus was actually just asking for a quote?  I don't think he's here yet?

I have not yet heard from my CPAM about my renewal, in spite of having sent all the forms in a couple of weeks ago.  My CV worked in the dentist's yesterday.....

[Jerome]

What are the rules about owning a Bed and Breakfast, as far as paying for health ?

I did read on here somewhere that someone stated that if you earn over 50% of your gobal income from a gite and I take it that would also bring in bed and breakfast ? or earned over something like 23,000 euros (?) then you were obliged to register at the Chambre of Commerce, is that correct?

[cooperlola]

Here is the relevant legislation with regard to registration:

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/WAspad/UnTexteDeJorf?numjo=ECER0759563D

This is not my field but others will give you better info.  However, I believe if you have a properly registered business here, and pay full cotisations, then you are entitled to French state healthcare, just as any national running  a business would be.

[Chassaing]

Hi guys,

We had no letter telling us our cover had stopped it was on our attestation, we went to get CMU affiliation 2 weeks ago and was turned away and asked to return in 2 week, we did.

Have tried to get an extension on our E106 from UK on Wednesday, no joy a letter is on the way to confirm it.

We spent an hour with our CPAM man yesterday, couldn't get a EH card or CMU affiliation ahead of 30 Sep 2007.

He spent most of the time on the phone talking to higher offices. We have our CVs too and they will probably work too but no money will be refunded. 

Effectively pay as you go.

We accept that we have no health cover.

We can't advise anyone either, we have been getting quotes as well. Our meeting with our insurance broker is on Monday the 1st October.  Two weeks ago when we discussed the situation he wasn't aware of it.  However, the situation has changed at least 3 times in 2 week that we know of and could easily change again.

We will have a tough time deciding whether to sign up knowing it all could be reversed after all the EU lobbying.

This as of yesterday is correct.

http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/europe/cmu_inactifs.htm

If you don't believe me, PM me and we can chat on the phone.

[cooperlola]

For your own health's sake, now that you have had a positive no, as it were, I would - personally - get cover.  Better to be over rather than under insured.  None of this may come to much and although some are working hard on it on our behalf, the machinery grinds slowly.  But that is just my personal opinion.

One company at least runs a "gateway" plan previously used for new arrivals awaiting cover. It has a "get out" clause for this reason and may suit your needs.  See the thread on Healthcare Providers.

[makfai]

[quote user="lebois"]Hi guys,

Have tried to get an extension on our E106 from UK on Wednesday, no joy a letter is on the way to confirm it.

[/quote]

This is where the British Govt could have helped!  If someone was already in the CMU they would have 6 months to sort this out which would allow the insurance providers to set their stalls out.  I agree with Coop's advice that it is not prudent to be without health cover but I would also suggest you put your case to Mary Honeyball MEP to see if she could lobby in UK to get DWP to give you an extension.

[cooperlola]

Makfai is right in that Mary needs real cases to make her point, not pie-in-the-sky, Brits in the sun ones.  So please get in touch with her.  Her right hand man has e-mailed me and asked for my phone number so I may hear more.

[Jonzjob]

A couple of days ago we were reading the article on the BBC web site about the dream of France. This is the site http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7004705.stm . Part way down is the interesting bit

"The French government has now told the British embassy that the new rules will only apply to newcomers, but there is still great confusion about who will be affected. "???

I hope that this helps?

[cooperlola]

JJ, the BBC report was filmed whilst this was the story - and indeed the info' we were getting from the Embassy.  Since then the French government has changed its mind.  The position now is :

E106 - no CMU on expiry.

CMU contributor - ejected from the system from 31.3.2008

[Jerome]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

Here is the relevant legislation with regard to registration:

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/WAspad/UnTexteDeJorf?numjo=ECER0759563D

This is not my field but others will give you better info.  However, I believe if you have a properly registered business here, and pay full cotisations, then you are entitled to French state healthcare, just as any national running  a business would be.

[/quote]

Thanks but that is only for the registering of a Bed and breakfast, not about the regulations about at what point your income reaches and when  you are obliged to register and not get your cover from the CMU. Anyone know please ?

[Chassaing]

[quote user="makfai"]

[quote user="lebois"]Hi guys,

Have tried to get an extension on our E106 from UK on Wednesday, no joy a letter is on the way to confirm it.

[/quote]

This is where the British Govt could have helped!  If someone was already in the CMU they would have 6 months to sort this out which would allow the insurance providers to set their stalls out.  I agree with Coop's advice that it is not prudent to be without health cover but I would also suggest you put your case to Mary Honeyball MEP to see if she could lobby in UK to get DWP to give you an extension.

[/quote]

Thanks for the advice, this has been done already during the week.

All I'd like to say is, "Wake up this is real!"

[Ron Avery]

Lebois why don't you check your E 106 form, it is unusual for an E 106 to expire other than the end of the year, that is why December 2007 is a key date for many people here.  You will get nowhere with CPAM if you do not even have the English and French versions of the letter from Newcastle telling you that you are no longer entitled to healthcare under an E 106, regime change or not.

It could be that you are being excluded due to the rule change but they would not have allowed to join the CMU without that letter had things not changed.

[Chassaing]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

Lebois why don't you check your E 106 form, it is unusual for an E 106 to expire other than the end of the year, that is why December 2007 is a key date for many people here.  You will get nowhere with CPAM if you do not even have the English and French versions of the letter from Newcastle telling you that you are no longer entitled to healthcare under an E 106, regime change or not.

It could be that you are being excluded due to the rule change but they would not have allowed to join the CMU without that letter had things not changed.

[/quote]

Thank you Ron, I realise you are only doing your best to help.  But the letter is already on its way from Newcastle and it doesn't matter at this current time if you are not in the CMU and your E106 runs out then you are out and need Heath Insurance. All we talked about during our visit with CPAM was the European Directive!  Wake up people this is real! If you don't believe me, visit your CPAM office next week.

Unless the rules change again, which they could, you'll be asking for Health insurance vouchers for Christmas.

[chessfou]

I would still like to see clarification of (at least) one thing (and yes I have read and re-read the Sécu web page and yes, maybe this is only straw-clutching):

Generally speaking (and especially in the rants which have appeared here, there and on times-online) the French, when they refer to "CMU," really mean "CMU-C." It seems entirely ingrained that CMU-C = CMU in a completely interchangeable way. Many of us were/are/would be concerned with "CMU-B."

Do the new regs pertain to CMU-C only or to both parts?

Has anyone who has been along to (or phoned) their CPAM this week asked specifically about this?

CMU-C - free complémentaire on top of free basic = free healthcare;

CMU-B - the small minority who contribute 8% of RFR.

[Chassaing]

[quote user="chessfou"]I would still like to see clarification of (at least) one thing (and yes I have read and re-read the Sécu web page and yes, maybe this is only straw-clutching):

Generally speaking (and especially in the rants which have appeared here, there and on times-online) the French, when they refer to "CMU," really mean "CMU-C." It seems entirely ingrained that CMU-C = CMU in a completely interchangeable way. Many of us were/are/would be concerned with "CMU-B."

Do the new regs pertain to CMU-C only or to both parts?

Has anyone who has been along to (or phoned) their CPAM this week asked specifically about this?

CMU-C - free complémentaire on top of free basic = free healthcare;

CMU-B - the small minority who contribute 8% of RFR.

[/quote]

I cannot confirm your specifics, but during our visit, there was no mention of Free health care only 'Bas' for which we understude we would have had to contribute 8% after a threshold. Either way we were not given access to anything.

Next week, we are on the trail for Health Insurance so that we comply. Got help the others that can't get health insurance.

I trust someone else will grab the baton next week and confirm what I have written so that the MEPs get a grip.

 This might give you a hint of things to come.  Some a little old now:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4608108.stm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/07/wsark07.xml

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/news/world/20070918-france-immigration-reform-family-reunification-genetic-testing.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,506884,00.html

[MrCanary]

Here we go folks - insurance covering pre-existing conditions.

I am coming up to 59 and disclosed two conditions. Blood pressure and a bowel problem. My wife is 53 and as fit as a fiddle...

Please note that on the chart, the lines have disappeared. The 'per person per claim' refers to excess. The amount shown is definitely for the two of us per month and not as it looks on the chart...

Six Suitable Insurance Plan and Premium Comparisons
Insurer / Provider	Product	Level of Cover	Premium	Standard Excess	Payment Frequency
AXA PPP	Standard	Standard	£200.59	Nil per person per claim	Per Month
BUPA	LifeLine Essential	Standard	£287.99	Nil per person per claim	Per Month
InterGlobal	Standard	Standard	£212.00	Nil per person per claim	Per Month
Morgan Price	Level 1	Standard	£145.27	Nil per person per claim	Per Month
William Russell	Elite Bronze	Standard	£228.00	Nil per person per claim	Per Month
GoodHealth	Major Medical	Standard	£246.94	Nil per person per claim	Per Month

Well, that's my health secrets out in the open - but hopefully it gives everyone a bit of an idea of the cost...

 

[Chassaing]

Hi Mel,

Thanks these are better figures than I have seen for 2 people without pre conditions. (Hope I'm not being insensitive)  They should give us something to bargain with when we see our Health Insurance agent on Monday. Have a good weekend

Regards

[Danny]

[quote user="Jerome"][quote user="cooperlola"]

Here is the relevant legislation with regard to registration:

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/WAspad/UnTexteDeJorf?numjo=ECER0759563D

This is not my field but others will give you better info.  However, I believe if you have a properly registered business here, and pay full cotisations, then you are entitled to French state healthcare, just as any national running  a business would be.

[/quote]

Thanks but that is only for the registering of a Bed and breakfast, not about the regulations about at what point your income reaches and when  you are obliged to register and not get your cover from the CMU. Anyone know please ?
[/quote]

here is some info for you on this page from the APCE site.

see especially this part :

"- Les personnes qui exercent cette activité de manière habituelle en recherchant des profits et qui en font leur profession doivent s'inscrire au registre du commerce et des sociétés."

Loosely translated (by me) " those who carry out this activity full time and make a living from it must register it as a business"

No mention of amounts of income there, just basically whether or not it is one's main income.

Can't find any documentation regarding how this relates to actual income figures but I will keep looking. I know Eslier has posted many times on this subject so maybe he/she could indicate where we might find the some official texts...

Danny

[BJSLIV]

I just picked one of the quotes above and looked at some of the details attached to that policy

William Russell

Elite Bronze

Standard

£228.00

Nil per person per claim

Per Month

That is their basic plan and only includes "in hospital" treatment. it doesn't cover consultations or any GP treatments.

The Bronze plan policy covers

In-patient and day-patient treatment that has been authorised by us,

Out-patient treatment when it relates to in-patient treatment covered by your plan and received within the 90 day period following discharge from hospital,

Home nursing,

Emergency in-patient dental treatment following an accident and received within 15 days of the accident,

Emergency evacuation costs and the travelling expenses of a companion,

Compassionate home travel, following close family bereavement,

Repatriation on death if you die outside your Home Country,

Palliative treatment received in a Hospice.

I suppose you might be prepared to pay GP visits yourself, but I wouldn't want to lack cover for Chronic illnesses or accidents. To get that you have to step up to their Gold package which for the example given above would cost £594 per month. For that you would get up to £1000 per year of chronic illness cover, which isn't really that generous.

Unfortunately the real cruncher is

The following are excluded from cover under your policy:

– Pre-existing conditions (see page 7 of the Global Health Elite plan agreement regarding your obligation to disclose),

The same comments apply to the plan from Interglobal.

These price probably overstate the true costs of appropriate cover for French residents as there would be less emphasis on getting back home aspects of the policy. On the other hand they understate the costs insofar as they exclude GP cover. One can only hope that things get a bit more competitive over the coming weeks

 

[Jerome]

[quote user="Jane and Danny"][quote user="Jerome"][quote user="cooperlola"]

Here is the relevant legislation with regard to registration:

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/WAspad/UnTexteDeJorf?numjo=ECER0759563D

This is not my field but others will give you better info.  However, I believe if you have a properly registered business here, and pay full cotisations, then you are entitled to French state healthcare, just as any national running  a business would be.

[/quote]

Thanks but that is only for the registering of a Bed and breakfast, not about the regulations about at what point your income reaches and when  you are obliged to register and not get your cover from the CMU. Anyone know please ?

[/quote]

here is some info for you on this page from the APCE site.

see especially this part :

"- Les personnes qui exercent cette activité de manière habituelle en recherchant des profits et qui en font leur profession doivent s'inscrire au registre du commerce et des sociétés."

Loosely translated (by me) " those who carry out this activity full time and make a living from it must register it as a business"

No mention of amounts of income there, just basically whether or not it is one's main income.

Can't find any documentation regarding how this relates to actual income figures but I will keep looking. I know Eslier has posted many times on this subject so maybe he/she could indicate where we might find the some official texts...

Danny

[/quote]

Thank you Danny but the link in the person Quillan's footnote, shows he does B&B but he says he is waiting to hear from CPAM (is that for CMU?) ?

So if it is, is he and others who in fact have B&B house's, as their business, they must register if they earn a certain amount or if it is the majority of their global income? Yes, I think it was Eslier who posted about this.

Maybe he or Quiillan can tell us more ?

[MrCanary]

BJSLIV,

You are right...

I received the quotes by email and stuck them on here. Now that I have had time to check the detail, the cheapest one, Morgan Price, (and probably the rest as well) does not cover my existing conditions.

I guess that was a wasted exercise!