Moving with a reluctant teen? - views welcome

[Di]

Well, here goes. The grand old age of 43 and my first blog! We are seriously considering moving to south-west France with a reluctant teen, when she finishes GCSE's at 16. This seems to be against all the advice read so far on this blog - and you may all be right. The teen is question is bright, confident, gregarious but has no french to speak of at the moment and no desire to leave friends and social life for the rural french life. This wouldn't be until summer 2009 so lots of time to plan, prepare and change our minds! We believe she would benefit from a greater world perspective, a new language and culture and a stronger CV overall - and are in no rush for her to achieve the next level of qualifications (be it three or four more years until she is ready for university). If we were to 'go for it' and she hated it, there could be a Plan B with close family back in the UK who she could return to, but we would love her to have the opportunity. The area of France we are in (Boulougne-sur-Gesse in Haute Garonne) has increasing numbers of Brit families so she would not be the first or only. Feedback welcome please on the relative sanity of this proposal, your experiences, views on international schools or total immersion in the french school system...or any other thoughts / advice.

PS - we have no intention of attempting to drag a kicking, screaming teen 1,000 miles south totally against her will, so no calls to Childline necessary at the moment.  

[Iceni]

The simple yet sensible answer is to exit England while her back is turned and don't leave a forwarding address. If this is too much to bear then wait a further 2 years until she is 18 and Esther will not be after you. I think that Plan B dumping her on family is a bit unfair unless you feel the need to get back at them in a really big way.

There is no way you should come to France unless all of those making the move are at least 110% in favour. Children, particularly teenagers, can be ungrateful wretches at the best of times when moving house by just 5 miles generates a reaction that Kevin would be proud of.

John

not

 

[Tony F Dordogne]

There is no sanity in plan A at all - if she doesn't want to come here, for goodness sake don't make her, I've seen the damage within a family that such an ill-considered move can make.

[Alex H]

[quote user="Iceni"]

There is no way you should come to France unless all of those making the move are at least 110% in favour.

[/quote]

 

I don't have children, but am 100% behind John on this.

 

[raindog]

[quote user="Tandem_Pilot"][quote user="Iceni"]

There is no way you should come to France unless all of those making the move are at least 110% in favour.

[/quote]

 

I don't have children, but am 100% behind John on this.

 

[/quote]

Wise words.

Wouldn't it be better to wait a couple of years? By then she might be more or less independant and you can come on your own.

[jojo]

I too agree that you should wait until she is 18 and able to decide herself whether to come to France with you or not. The area you are looking to move to is a beautiful part of the country, but there is not much to do for teenagers. Its very rural, mainly farming, and so many young families have moved out towards the bigger cities like Toulouse, Tarbes and Pau, mainly for employment as there's so few opportunities for work in this area, except at the local supermarket, or in the building trade.  At Boulogne sur Gesse there is only a cinema and a very small nightclub, but most social events are in the summer months with local village fetes, hardly what would appeal to most 16-18 year olds who have lived in town or city in the UK all their life. Your daughter will have a problem learning the language if she is not at school or able to socialise with the local French on a daily basis, full time.

We moved from the UK to this area 3 years ago with our 14 year old daughter who was not particularly happy about the idea. She went to a local French school, but unfortunately, she seemed to be held back rather than helped by the growing number of English students as they tend to keep together and not integrate much. She became so unhappy and withdrawn because the lack of a social life which most girls of  her age need, that she decided, after passing the Brevet this year, to continue her education at a college back in the UK. We were not happy about her decision, but felt that it would be unfair to try to stop her. Fortunately she was able to stay with close family near to where we used to live in the UK, and she still had plenty of friends in the area, but the difference in her attitude and outlook now is such a weight off our minds. Of course we miss her dearly,  but she visits us each holiday, and she is so much more confident and outgoing now, and above all, happy.

Please do not make the same mistake we did, you will only give yourself and your daughter a lot of pain and heartache.

 

 

[Bugsy]

I totally agree with whats been said and would add that its not just the children that need to be 'on board'. To ensure success in any move to another country, everyone involved has to be in favour.

[cooperlola]

I couldn't agree more with the above posters.  This happened to me and my sister - I was younger and more resiliant but my sister was the same age and stayed on in the UK when my parents divorced.  She lived with a family so she could carry on at the same school in the UK and my mother and I shoved off to Malta.  I don't think she ever recovered from the upheaval and upset it caused in her life.  DO NOT DO IT.  What is two years, with a lifetime ahead of you all?

[Wendy]

Hi Di,

we came here four years ago when my second eldest son was 16. He spoke only a few words of French. We are in south-west France as well. Because of his poor French language skills no College would touch him and neither would any Lycee in our entire region. No arguments about this - we went all the way to the top at IA Perpignan. He received no schooling here at all. All my kids were very keen to come here and make a go of it but William, especially, wound up hating it here. Two weeks ago he returned to Australia to, in his words, 'get his life back'. And he is. My eldest is 21 and taking French lessons but is yet to find work becuase if you cannot speak French in our region doors get slammed in your face. Discriminatory is an understatement in my opinion after our experiences.

If she doesn't want to come here then leave her where she is. Maybe she will visit and come around eventually, but 16 is a bad age to uproot them.

[Iceni]

[quote user="Jura"]

............... but is yet to find work becuase if you cannot speak French in our region doors get slammed in your face. Discriminatory is an understatement in my opinion after our experiences.

[/quote]

If I ran a business (in any country) and needed staff why on earth should I employ someone with whom I cannot converse or who could not be able to converse with colleagues and/or customers?  Your comments sound very much like those of the doting parent insisting that their offspring was the only one in step.

John

and probably

 

[Clair]

[quote user="Iceni"][quote user="Jura"] ... but is yet to find work becuase if you cannot speak French in our region doors get slammed in your face. Discriminatory is an understatement in my opinion after our experiences.[/quote]

If I ran a business (in any country) and needed staff why on earth should I employ someone with whom I cannot converse or who could not be able to converse with colleagues and/or customers?[/quote] John, you took the words out of my keyboard!

[Wendy]

Oh for gods sake, here we go again. Maybe it is because I come from a multi-cultural society where I often worked alongside foreigners who could not speak a word of english yet they were given a job. That's how they improved their english...in the workplace!. And take a look at the UK and Ireland today; loads of Polish immigrants with no english language skills at all yet it is 'racist' to refuse them a job. Yet they have jobs.

I doubt you would be allowed to refuse an immigrant a job in the UK today simply because they could not speak english.

I am not 'doting' in the sense you make out, and please do not be so condescending. My son is making every effort. Save your sarcasm for those retirees who come here, live in British enclaves and never choose to speak a word of French. And by god we know a few.[:@]

Di, just be aware that this country does not suit everyone. And judging your daughters feelings I would either wait or leave her where you are . This country is not that great that it is worth upsetting your family over [:)].

 

 

 

 

[BJSLIV]

loads of Polish immigrants with no english language skills at all 

But the problem is that English parents moving to France , often in the hope of a better life, do not envisage their children toilet cleaning, fruit picking, or chicken gutting.

These are the jobs that the foreign workers in Herefordshire a happy to accept. They are not often not bothered about improving their language skills, they simply want tto earn an income which is worth a small fortune compared to what they would get back home

There are menial jobs available in France , perhaps only on a short-term basis. These are the jobs that longterm RMIsts are forced to take to maintain their income.

[Just Katie]

Hello Di

And welcome to the forum [:$]

Would you not consider meeting half way with your daughter.  For example, why not choose an area which is more similar to your current area.  I really think it would be very difficult for a 'townie' to accept the country way of life, especially in their teen years.  In fact, my heart bleeds for teenagers in the countryside, being a 'townie' I dont know how they cope, although I would perfectly accept that way of life now............ I think[blink]

When you have chosen your area, why not 'move' there by renting a property from May/June when her GCSE's finish until September and see how she settles.  If she gets in with a french crowd, she may not want to come home which will leave you with a choice of International school or French mainstream (if they will take her)

However, have you thought of her life in France beyond schooling?  Reading from the posts on this thread, I dont think there is much in the way of opportunity. 

Anyway, goodluck.

[Wendy]

BJSLIV; I was merely making a point, from what I have experienced in the past. I just wonder how much longer that the French will be able to maintain their intolerance of non-french speaking foreigners coming to live here whilst maintaining their membership of the increasingly borderless EU[:)].

Di;  if you come here and get it wrong there will be plenty of people on this forum to lay the blame at your feet. Think hard before you come here and, especially, before you bring your kids here. By the way; can you speak any French at all?. God help you if you cannot.

Don't assume that moving into a community of ex-pat Brits to be the answer. In the long run you will still be in France.

Katie...we are in agreement for a change![;-)]. Well said. But if the girl cannot speak any French at this stage then, unless she starts cramming, she will have not much hope here. And I suspect she is not keen to do so.

[raindog]

[quote user="Jura"]

By the way; can you speak any French at all?. God help you if you cannot.

[/quote]

Isn't this a little over the top? France is, after all, a non English speaking country. What do you expect?[8-)]

[Wendy]

France is not only a member but the founding member of a largely non-french speaking and borderless Europe. She no longer stands alone, whether she likes it or not.

I wonder how many people posting here, who live here in France, would still be here if being fluent in French - to French standard -was a requirement to not only living here but buying property here.

 

[raindog]

errr....eh? [8-)]

[Wendy]

Well, the general consensus is that if you cannot speak French then you should not be here, or consider coming here...right?.

Is France a  'members only club' of some sort?.

 

[DerekJ]

I struggle with the view that the French should be able to speak English as a requirement to live in their own country.

I would agree that if a French person wishes to do business in an international environment the current requirement is likely to be that they speak a degree of  English... and probably in the near future Mandarin.

But if their lives or business is purely within the bounds of France why would one expect them to speak English? To do so would be pure arrogance in my view.

[Wendy]

Derek, they don't need to speak any english at all...just be more tolerant of those who cannot speak French that well at the off [:)].

[Iceni]

[quote user="Jura"]

I am not 'doting' in the sense you make out, and please do not be so condescending. My son is making every effort.

[/quote]

So your 21 year old son chooses to live in a country where he does not speak the language and then you whine that those nasty Froggy-woggies won't employ him.  Many might have expected you to have learned from your other son's experience as a non French speaker but you have either failed so to do or did not impart the information.  Or perhaps it is just a great conspiracy against you and yours ?

Maybe this would be a good opportunity to follow the example of Norman Tebbitt's father ?

John

not

[raindog]

[quote user="Jura"]

Well, the general consensus is that if you cannot speak French then you should not be here, or consider coming here...right?.

Is France a  'members only club' of some sort?.

 [/quote]

It dosen't bother me whether people who choose to live here can speak French or not, but I wouldn't expect them to whinge and complain about France if they couldn't.

If you go and live in Italy, Spain, Sweden or any other european country, surely you must expect to learn the appropriate language or simply muddle by.

[Sprogster]

Jura,

According to French government statistics, average unemployment in France for under 25 year olds is 23%. In certain rural areas it can be as high as 60%.

Employers in France are extremely reluctant to take on young employees French or otherwise, because of the difficulty in letting them go if they can't do the job, because of unduly restrictive employment laws that the new President NS wants to change. That is one of the main reasons so many young French people move to London.

I have never understood why anyone would want to take nearly adult children to a country that has one of the worst youth unemployment rates in Europe, as even if your daughter spoke fluent French there might be no increased likelihood she could find reasonable paid work.

[Deby]

Cant quite get my head around the dont come to France unless you speak the lingo bit!  How on earth do you learn a language then?  Most people only really start to speak a language when they are in the country?? I could count to 10 and that was it at first now I speak it well enough!

This lady only asked for opinions and boy did she get them, I wish people would be a little less aggressive when they impart the opinions, you can say the same things and get your point across, but does it have to be so aggressive?!  I do wonder how people go through life with this attitude and seem totally unfazed by it and how it affects others - are they permantly having a bad day.  

Deby