UK Property Market Stagnating

[Alan Zoff]

[quote user="Quillan"]

I'm no fan of some of these people either but it is a bit unfair to tar them all with the same brush. Some of 'these people' are also looking after large funds which contain the money from loads of little people trying to make a few bob for their retirement. You never hear much when things are going well but when they don't everyone starts shouting.

[/quote]

I would have more sympathy with this line, Quillan, if investment managers consistently did add value "when things are going well". But statistics suggest that few of them outperform the indices. In other words, if you had bought a low-cost tracker fund (not a high cost one such  as the one used by Branson to jump on the bandwagon with his Virgin PEP) run by a computer, you would in most cases have done better over time than paying a fancy and expensive fund manager to underperform.

And even when things are going badly, do they own up? You would think from the glossy brochures that the likes of Legal & General keep sending me (including an expensive package that arrived only yesterday) that I will be missing a golden opportunity if I do not send them a cheque to put into the stockmarket forthwith. There is the statutory warning that prices can go up or down, of course, but this is lost in the small print while the marketing hype paints a picture of unlimited success.

A national newspaper proved that a 7 year old with a pin aimed at the stockmarket page could beat several of the top providers of fund management (including the little man's pension) two years running. Just by randomly sticking the pin in the paper and notionally sitting on the "selected" shares. This was a few years ago and I no longer have the precise details (don't know if they still do these trials) but it was stuff like this that prompted me to look at tracker funds instead - improving the annual return immediately by 1% plus, due to the lower annual "management" fee.

[Quillan]

Two things, I invested money with two companies when they were quite new, one named after a planet and other the opposite of infidelity  [;-)] [;-)] and made a nice few bob with them especially in telecoms and computers. I made about 10 times my investment with them and got an email from one of the above two weeks before the bottom fell out of those particular markets. The other one tipped a company call Cambridge Antibodies at 63p a share, anyone remember them? They did the Gnome thing and the shares went to £80 plus at one stage. Now I seem to remember one of the original owners of one of these investment companies used to share out the company profits with all his staff including the tea boy. I never considered that unfair.

Secondly I think it's OK some of these bonuses when you consider that some of these people don't have such a big salary as we all think but rely on their bonus which is performance driven. The more they make for their clients the bigger the bonus. Now the sums might look high but then these people are dealing in millions every day and the percentage is actually quite low. So if they earn it then it's OK but perhaps like our investments that 'can go down as well as up' their salary and bonus should as well, poor performance zero money. Might keep them better focused. As my dad always said "hit a man on the nose and blood stops flowing in 5 minutes, take the money out of his pocket and he remembers forever".

[Alan Zoff]

I congratulate you on your good fortune, Quillan, but looking through the published performance charts to which I have access for the popular funds in which the man in the street's pension funds might be invested, there seems to be little evidence that similar returns are being achieved for him. Indeed, as I have indicated, most appear to have struggled to keep pace with the main indices and several to have seriously underperformed.

Obviously, it is impossible to comment on the actual performance of individual private portfolios or indeed on particular company pension schemes but I can't immediately think why the majority of those would have done better than the funds covered by the published charts. I wonder how many on this Forum can report that the annual statements they receive from the big-name companies managing their personal pensions show megabuck annual returns. Mine certainly don't!

(Signing out now and won't have internet access for next 10 days. Not sure whether that is a good or a bad thing....   Au revoir.)  

[Gastines]

Reading through the many replies on this subject and seeing the inclusion of investments,I see an opportunity for the brighter members,I exclude myself, to form an investment club, something on the lines that used to be done by regular commuters and also a few pubs. If someone did well out of the HBOS scandal yesterday,perhaps they could join as well as they obviously have inside information. Perhaps Gluestick for Chairperson? My piggy-bank is at the ready.

Dinner calls,Oh no, not bread and dripping again.!!

Regards.

[WJT]

I second that. Sounds a good idea to me Gastines. [:)]

[woody234]

who and what is BCCI

[cooperlola]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_Credit_and_Commerce_International

[woody234]

cooperloo i thank you

[cooperlola]

Is that like a posh portaloo, Woody?  Or one made from an old beer barrel perhaps?

[Chancer]

One good thing has come from reading this thread, I live on the tiny interest income on a small and diminishing capital sum, when I looked at other accounts to spread the risk (not that I really have much over the protected limit) I found that I can get 25% more interest than I currently receive from Egg and with a UK protected bank.

I used the Martin whatsisname moneysaver site to search, it was amusing to find that the safest place for your money (without a ceiling) is the only nationalised bank - Northern Rock[:)] and they pay high interest too[:D]

[Russethouse]

[:D][:D]Not quite so amusing when you are one of the UK tax payers funding it ![:D][:D]

[Quillan]

Because we spent so much time talking about finances I thought I might mention the article in the latest LF Magazine about pensions. Apparently the laws changed in January with regards to moving your pension 'pot' around Europe. If the article is correct ( [:)] ) it implies that if you have lived in France for 5 years or more you can move your pension fund here with no tax burden. It then appears you can withdraw the whole pension fund and do with it what you wish, perhaps investing it somewhere else. spend it or whatever. This also includes any 'protected rights' you may have. To be honest it's a bit complicated for me so I would be interested if any who has read the article or who knows about these new laws has anything to say on the matter.

[mint]

Quillan, this is seriously interesting.  Is this article available on line?  Nothing like being able to take charge of your own financial affairs and then, even if you **** it up, you've only done so in your own perceived best interest.

[Russethouse]

Even if it is on line I doubt it will be the whole article - I think the key phrase to research is  A Qualifying Recognised Overseas Pension Scheme or QROPS.

At the end of the article it says that there are only a handful of suitable schemes ( the scheme must be approved by the FSA and also the French IMD)  and that the scheme must be approved by the HMRC

Bon Chance

PS A few links:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pensionschemes/qrops.pdf

 

http://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/Pension_Rights/Overseas_Transfers/

 

http://pensions.practicallaw.com/7-244-7953

 

[Quillan]

Its written by a lady called Jane Goodal from Blevines Franks.

You have to transfer it to a Qualified Recognised Overseas Pension Scheme (QROPS),. You must no longer be UK Tax resident and the HMRC must know this. Once it is transfered then in her words "If you have been UK Tax non-resident for five years you may transfer your pension in to a QROPS and then immediatly out again, free of UK tax. You may decide to place the funds into another retirement plan or in to a structured portfolio possibly under the umbrella of a trust, or take it all as cash".

Unfortunately it is not available online so you will have to take a trip in to town and buy a copy.

If you decide it is of interest to you then ALWAYS SEEK PROPER FINANCIAL ADVICE FROM A QUALIFIED PERSON OR COMPANY

Below is the HMRC approved agency list for France

[OECD] New Pension Scheme France

Dimension Avenir RIP Gan Assurances France

Perpelia France

Banque Populaire Centre Atlantique France

Coordinated Pension Scheme France

Co-ordinated Pension Scheme of the Council of Europe France

New Pension Scheme of the Council of Europe France

Pension Scheme of the Coordinated Organisations - European Space

Agency France

Plan d'Epargne Retraite Populaire (PERP) formule "Plan Vert Vitalite" France

Plan d'Epargne Retraite Populaire (Perp)(Suravenir) France

Plan d'epargne Retraite Populaire PERP formule securite France

Plan Elysees Retraite Patrimoine France

Plan Epargne Retraite Populaire (PERP)(LCL) France

[David]

As Sweet17 says, this is seriously interesting.  Does this mean that it might be possible to transfer the entire pension pot out of UK, and not have to buy an annuity at the present disgracefully low rates?

If so I wonder how long this will last when the present UK government realise the implications.  Perhaps people might actually be able to enjoy the fruits of a lifetime of saving!

David

[Russethouse]

 According to the article: one of the advantages sighted is that there is no need  to buy an annuity, also no UK inheritance tax, you can choose the currency, there is Flexibility and most pensions qualify - however you cannot transfer if you have already purchased an annuity or begun to get benefits from a final salary scheme.

[Alan Zoff]

I see some estate agents and lenders are still claiming that the UK housing market is rising because average prices are 1% higher than this time last year, even though, month on month, average prices have fallen for 5 straight months (source: Nationwide Building Society). In my book, that means prices are at present falling, not rising.

Clearly, it is the longer term that matters but these things have a habit of spiralling and I suspect it is going to get a lot "worse" before it gets "better".

[Chancer]

And they will probably be saying that prices are 1% higher than 10 years ago when the values have halved[:D]

[tj]

 Edit by Russethouse : Due to copyright issues I am replacing the text posted by tj with a link to the article:

http://www.rttnews.com/FOREX/FXTopStory.asp?date=03/28/2008&item=3

[AnOther]

I was ahead of the game and raised the topic of QROPS 2 months ago but had no response [:(]

Definately researching this one [8-|]

[AnOther]

[quote user="tj"]

 Edit by Russethouse : Due to copyright issues I am replacing the text posted by tj with a link to the article:

http://www.rttnews.com/FOREX/FXTopStory.asp?date=03/28/2008&item=3

[/quote]Call me pedantic and I know it's history but this article is wrong when it claims "the pound fell to a new record low against the euro" as the rate was lower from roughly Jan 1995 thru to late 1997.

[IMG]http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/biskitboyo/hifx.jpg[/IMG]

Why do these people find it neccessary to lie ?

 

[Quillan]

I didn't think the Euro was about in 1995, I though it only came about in 2000 so how can thay say that or is that your point?

Sorry I missed your previous post Ernie[:$]

[AnOther]

You're right Quillan, but the Euro was initially established by the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 and was used for accountancy purposes prior to being put into physical circulation in Jan 2002, seems an awful lot longer ago though.

I assume this is what the HiFx chart refers to before 2002 though what they reference to as far back 87 is anybody's guess [blink]

No apology neccessary for missing my earlier post [:D]

 

[Quillan]

They do like to confuse people these financial bods. Do they not bother to think that the only thing the average Jo Bloggs is worried about is from when people actually started using it. Still it gives them something to quote against with that air and smugness they so often have. All right for them they have had their commission cheque the rest of us can just get on with it and tough t itties !