Big Electricity Bill

[Rowan]

Have done a search and although there are similar posts, nothing exactly what I am looking for.

We have just had our first "proper" bill (ie first after moving here full time). We have gas heating, so can't blame it on that, but does just short of €300 sound okay for 6 months? More than I expected, I must admit, but we had a pool pump on for 3 months, plus TV and stereo etc....If it sounds okay I will be happy, just want to know. About twice what it was for the last 6 month (winter) period, but we weren't here full time then.

Ta!

[AnOther]

Sounds about ball park to me.

With oil ch ours averages out at around €50/mt and like you pool stuff going on in the summer but we're not the most thrifty of people when it comes to saving on such things and if we really tried could probably shave 10%+ off that.

One day maybe, when we need to.....................[blink]

[Judie]

[quote user="Rowan"]Have done a search and although there are similar posts, nothing exactly what I am looking for.

We have just had our first "proper" bill (ie first after moving here full time). We have gas heating, so can't blame it on that, but does just short of €300 sound okay for 6 months?[/quote]

Must depend on the size of your house and the number of people.

Ours is about 120€ for two months during the winter and 100€ in the summer, so about the same as yours.

[Chancer]

Is he bill resulting from an estimated or actual reading?

The actual readings will be in bold type, dependant on where you are only one in six bills will be from actual readings.

The only way to truly judge your consumption is from two actual readings which if you are lucky will be one year apart.

[Rowan]

It is from an actual reading.

Thanks for everyone's feedback on this. Sounds like we will just have to get used to bigger bills down here. Strill beats the hell out of living in England, tho'!

[Northender]

[quote user="Rowan"]Have done a search and although there are similar posts, nothing exactly what I am looking for. We have just had our first "proper" bill (ie first after moving here full time). We have gas heating, so can't blame it on that, but does just short of €300 sound okay for 6 months? More than I expected, I must admit, but we had a pool pump on for 3 months, plus TV and stereo etc....If it sounds okay I will be happy, just want to know. About twice what it was for the last 6 month (winter) period, but we weren't here full time then. Ta![/quote]

Most swimming pool pumps are at least 1kW . If you had it on for say 12 hours/day , thats around 1Euro per day , over 3 months thats nearly 100 Euros.

 

Soon adds up,

[Chancer]

The electricity is cheaper here in France than in England.

Peoples consumption can be higher for many different reasons.

[AnOther]

I disagree, apart from an electric hob (gas in France) broadly speaking what we have here appliance wise is much the same as we had in UK but our bills there were about £35/mth.

[Chancer]

I think that you are well wrong in this instance Another, all energy bills have rocketed in the UK since I last was the bill-payer in 2004 whereas in France we have price regulation.

In the UK I was paying 12.3 pence TTC per kwh a year ago and that was a standard connection not off peak (which costs more)

In France on my latest bill the day units were 8.4cts HT the night time ones 4.89cts.

It is beyond my comprehension how they arrive at the TVA figure but it is nearer the 19% than the 5% in the UK, you also have all the other stealth taxes and the exchange rate to take into account but it is still considerably cheaper.

As a check I used my French kwh consumption to calculate the cost in the UK (far simpler that way round), my total bill in France including all the bull***t came to €97.97 for a total of 1086kwh, it would cost £196.95 at last years UK rates, the UK supplier was still the local electricity board but of course owned by EDF [:D].

I believe that my tenant has now switched to a cheaper supplier, I have a sub-metered supply and rebate him at least once a year.

[AnOther]

I haven't done the calculations you seem to have and in any case there are so many deliberately confusing permutations in UK that it's next to impossible to come up with an accurate figure for the average cost per kWh there but I'm only talking about 2.5 years ago and although I realise UK bills

have increased significantly I don't think my £35/mth bills of then

would transpose to £50/mth now, or at least I'd like to think not [:'(]

Still, it's largely moot as I don't live in UK anymore and even if it were like for like the exchange rate means I'm paying at least 30% more by anybody's reckoning [:(]

[tenniswitch]

We average about 100€ for the months I'm in France (usually mid-April to mid-July, mid-September to mid-November).  No pool, but electric cooker and electric radiateurs as well as woodstoves for heat.  And I use the washer, dryer and dishwasher a lot.

Your bill sounds quite reasonable to me, but, of course, it depends on the size of your house, what you're running, and the weather.

[Chancer]

[quote user="AnOther"]I haven't done the calculations you seem to have  and in any case there are so many deliberately confusing permutations in UK that it's next to impossible to come up with an accurate figure for the average cost per kWh
[/quote]

Au contraire.

Its very easy to work out electricity bills in the UK now as most suppliers have scrapped the standing charge and just charge the first fixed number of units per quarter at one higher rate and the rest at standard rates, the French bills however are designed to baffle what with the local taxes, contribution to service public and then the taxes on taxes.I have never been able to reconcile the TVA element correctly despite many kind people giving me the info.

You say that if it were like for like you would still be unhappy because of the exchange rate yet it is almost half the UK price, does that make your half empty glass glass three quarters empty [6][;-)]

Editted. Whilst it costs me twice as much in the UK it is untrue to say that it is half the price as I am not comparing like with like, I have cheaper off peak electricity in France. 

[Gardian]

I've been interested and amused by the "Oh no it isn't, Oh yes it is" debate on the UK / France comparative cost of electricity. So, to while away a wettish afternoon, I knocked up a quick spreadsheet to try to arrive at an objective comparison.

Of course, it can't be 100% objective, because (as has been said) there are a variety of suppliers and tarifs in the UK and your abonnement in France will vary according to your puissance. However, I made the following assumptions:

• NPower standard rates in the UK, EDF hc & hp rates in France

• 12kw puissance in France

• In France, 75% of consumption at hp

• 5% VAT in the UK and all the fiendishly complicated TVA and contribution add-ons in France

• £ = €1.1 

Kwh p.a.   4000   8000   12000   16000   20000

UK            €586   €1168   €1749   €2330   €2911

France        €604   €983    €1362   €1740   €2119

UK vs Fr    -3%   +19%    +28%   +34%   +37%

 

[Chancer]

Wow I am impressed! I never did get to learn how to do spreadsheets or anything else for that matter on a computer, I can do anything that I want to do manually and it has never seemd worth the pain of learning how to do it on the computer.

However as you have already made the spreadsheet would you mind plugging my figures into it to see how they come out and how they compare to my bills

In France: 6kw HP/HC abonnement 7000 kwh per annum split 77% HC 23% HP (I have night storage heating)

In UK: 4100 kwh/ per annum standard rate

And for my pied à terre which is sub metered from the above: 1306 kwh per annum standard rate.

I am particularly interested in the above as I am considering a seperate supply for my pied à terre now that I have won my battle against the local authority and it is a legally a seperate property in its own right.

As an aside I dont know why more people dont use off peak heating in France, yes I do the ridiculous cost of night storage heaters over here [:(]

Mine is a very old meter and has just gone round the clock on HC units, using the readings from when I first moved in the previous consumption was 77% HC and 23% HP which is almost identical to what mine is now, the previous usage did not have any electric heating but off peak water heating. 

[AnOther]

I don't doubt your numbers Quillan but I can only repeat that in my own case, with a broadly similar usage pattern, my previous £35/mth in UK tranposes to €50/mth here, and I've just reviewed my spreadsheet for UK 2007 to be absolutely certain I hadn't imagined it.

[Gardian]

[quote user="Chancer"]

However as you have already made the spreadsheet would you mind plugging my figures into it to see how they come out and how they compare to my bills

[/quote]

Will do - probably tomorrow.

[Gardian]

[quote user="AnOther"]I don't doubt your numbers Quillan
[/quote]

I'm not him, I'm me!![:P]

[AnOther]

Oops, sorry [:$]

[Gardian]

Chancer .............

For France, €684.

UK, £546 & £177.   I would emphasise that these are the NPower rates for a property in the Thames Valley. No idea whether they vary much elsewhere in the country, but I can't believe that they're much different (£0.1319 for the first 728kwh, thereafter £0.1258) 

[Jo]

My standing order has been recently updated from £43 per month to £67 per month and my latest bill informs me that I owe them £130 after standing orders have been taken off but that will even out hopefully in the summer! Here in the UK I heat and cook on gas. [:(]

[Gardengirl]

We are currently paying £900 for both gas and electricity in Berkshire; that includes full gas central heating for a 4 bed house. We are there for  about 6 months of the year, including all summer and parts of the winter, spring and autumn; we leave  the heating on enough to stop things freezing up in winter when we're not here. In the Gard we pay about €400, which covers the rest of the year, with just 3 electric heaters in a small 1 bed apartment. I'm not complaining about costs, just adding mine to the discussion. [:)]  

[Martin963]

I was howled down last summer in a similar discussion where I suggested that French prices -  PER UNIT - were considerably cheaper than British prices.

Seems I was right.

Whilst the standing charge in France can be a shock,  once you use the actual electrons it's not so bad,  so as the excellent spread sheet suggests you only save in Britain if your consumption is lowish.

I also pointed out back then that -  based on about a year ago -  the French cost per unit as shown by our bills had risen less than 3% over TEN YEARS,  whereas the cost per unit had DOUBLED in the same period in Britain.

You guys who live permanently in France have little idea how things have gone up in Britain.    Don't forget that our inflation rate has been consistently higher than yours over the years of "This Labour Government",  and it is of course soaring now, due to Brown and his child's money-printing kit.

Sorry to be political,  past caring......

[Chancer]

[quote user="Gardian"]

Chancer .............

For France, €684.

UK, £546 & £177.   I would emphasise that these are the NPower rates for a property in the Thames Valley. No idea whether they vary much elsewhere in the country, but I can't believe that they're much different (£0.1319 for the first 728kwh, thereafter £0.1258) 

[/quote]

Thankyou Guardian

To add to your pool of knowledge I will give you the rates charged by the Energy supplier that my new tenants have switched to, they do however have a combined gas/leccy tariff. I am also assuming that the first 728 kwh you refer to is an annual as opposed to quarterly figure so I am doing the same.

1st 500 kwh @ 24.173p thereafter 10.693p

[Chancer]

[quote user="Martin963"]I was howled down last summer in a similar discussion where I suggested that French prices -  PER UNIT - were considerably cheaper than British prices.

Seems I was right.

Of course you were right Martin but the problem is everyone knows electricity is expensive in France as any French person will trot out!

I also pointed out back then that -  based on about a year ago -  the French cost per unit as shown by our bills had risen less than 3% over TEN YEARS,  whereas the cost per unit had DOUBLED in the same period in Britain.

Most of the increase in the last few years of wildly fluctuating oil and gas prices, funny how they go down as well as up but our bills dont

[/quote]

[HoneySuckleDreams]

Hi. Which supplier are you with in France (or am i missing the point that there is only EDF). I've just moved to HC and we pay 11.54cts and 7.34cts respectively (6kw puissance). We have changed to Solar panels for the hot water, but seems to more expensive at the moment as the electric heater kicks in all to often (not too much solar heat about!) hence the move to HC tarif.

regards